Speechless!

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Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Feb 6 2015 9:26 AM

I found the category of speech in cultural concepts and I thought it was promising. So I did a search for it in all Bibles and got this (I narrowed it to 2 Bibles to illustrate better):

The result is underwhelming and inconsistent depending on the version. It looks like it is the manner of speaking of Peter (as a Galilean) that counts it under the speech category in Mk 14:20. But "Shibboleth" in Judges 12:6 is found under "Warfare". 

Could someone speak some word of explanation please?

BTW, the {Section <LiteraryType Speech>} search in Bibles produces only results in Job and Acts. I found out from the PG that speeches in John are called Johannine Dialogue/Discourse. So I did a {Section <LiteraryTyping = Johannine Dialogue/Discourse>} search in John and got this:

As you can see on the right, there are narrative section highlighted in the results. I thought that perhaps the "section" part highlights the whole chapter, but see on the left, it is not so. Puzzled. 

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Francis:
As you can see on the right, there are narrative section highlighted in the results. I thought that perhaps the "section" part highlights the whole chapter, but see on the left, it is not so. Puzzled. 

Here's how the passage is classified:

Regarding the current Literary Typing data, see https://community.logos.com/forums/p/94023/654231.aspx#654231 

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Jessica Parks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 9 2015 4:06 PM

Francis:
The result is underwhelming and inconsistent depending on the version.

The NRSV contains more books (with more texts that were annotated [e.g., Sirach]) which is why there are more hits for the NSRV than the ESV.

Francis:
It looks like it is the manner of speaking of Peter (as a Galilean) that counts it under the speech category in Mk 14:20. But "Shibboleth" in Judges 12:6 is found under "Warfare". 

Thanks for pointing this out, Francis. It looks like Judges 12:6 should be tagged as 'Speech' as well. I've made the correction (along with a few additional annotations for this concept) that should be in a future update.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 2:04 AM

Thank you, Jessica. 

I take that the literary sections apply to entire pericopes and not just material within them. Hence the narrative part at the beginning of John 4 is kept together with the dialogue that follows and the whole classified as "Johannine dialogue/discourse". 

I wished there was a way to locate speech specifically (using whichever dataset or search function). What I mean is finding the stuff between the quotation marks (of course, there is no quotation mark in Greek and Hebrew). I even tried searching for quotation marks but since they are used as part of search syntax I was not successful in trying to use them as search terms. 

Nevertheless, for narrative analysis, an important part of biblical studies, it is important to be able to distinguish between narration and speech and to search for ALL/ANY persons, places, speakers, etc. The propositional outlines come closest to providing a framework for doing this, but it is not searchable (except by CTL-F with all its limitations). 

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Jimmy Parks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 9:08 AM

Francis

The Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible and Greek New Testament would be a great tool for searching for all direct and reported speech. 

https://www.logos.com/product/47298/the-lexham-discourse-hebrew-and-greek-bundle

The creators of these resources have marked many different features which the biblical authors use to structure their discourse. All of these are searchable.  

This is an original language resource, but it is paired with the Lexham High definition Old and New Testaments which contain almost all of the marked discourse features found in the original language resource. 

Hope that helps.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 11:27 AM

Jimmy Parks:
The Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible and Greek New Testament would be a great tool for searching for all direct and reported speech

I had looked into it before but when I saw the descriptive, it looked different from what I was looking for. Discourse analysis and narrative criticism intersect but are not the same thing.

The Lexham Discourse Greek NT says it categorizes the text according to these categories:

Forward-pointing Devices

  1. Attention-Getter
  2. Cataphoric Reference
  3. Cataphoric Target
  4. Counter Point (Clause level)
  5. Counter Point (Thematic Unit)
  6. Point (Clause level)
  7. Point (Thematic Unit)
  8. Historical Present
  9. Meta-Comment
  10. Redundant Quotative Frame
  11. Tail-Head Linkage

Emphasis

  1. Emphasis (Main Clause)
  2. Emphasis (Main Clause-Other)
  3. Emphasis (Subordinate Clause)

Thematic Highlighting

  1. Athematic Demonstrative
  2. Thematic Demonstrative
  3. Changed Reference
  4. Overspecified Noun Phrase
  5. Thematic Address
  6. Right Dislocation

Framing Devices

  1. Comparative Frame
  2. Conditional/Exceptive Frame
  3. Dative Circumstantial Frame
  4. Genitive Circumstantial Frame
  5. Nominative Circumstantial Frame
  6. Pendens Frame
  7. Reason/Result Frame
  8. Spatial Frame
  9. Temporal Frame
  10. Topical Frame

Propositional Markers

  1. Complex Clause Hierarchy
  2. Continuative Relative Clause
  3. Topic of Verbless Clause
  4. Parenthetical Comment
  5. Reported Speech

Propositional Annotations

  1. Proposition
  2. Principle
  3. Sub-Point
  4. Bullet
  5. Support
  6. Development Unit
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Jimmy Parks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 11:38 AM

Yes. Propositional Markers 5. Reported Speech

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 11:43 AM

Jimmy Parks:

Yes. Propositional Markers 5. Reported Speech

Ah, I missed that one in the crowd...

Thanks, Jimmy.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 11:21 AM

The annotation for a Cultural Concept like Speech is intended to highlight specific cultural practices related to speech (like the two cases you pointed out). If you have the Reported Speech Dataset you can search by speaker using data types (New Search: {Speaker}), but we don't yet have a way to search all reported speech. The discourse data is not yet searchable by data types.

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