Who's going to win March Madness this year?

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Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 6:24 AM

Rayner:
They've provided one woman, and I'm still unimpressed.  Morna Hooker, Frances Young and Susanne Scholz are all people who've produced excellent literature and easily deserve to be placed heads above June Hunt who has, unsurprisingly, fallen at the first hurdle against somebody who actually was a bible scholar.  No contest.

Well, Hunt is the church library type of author (how often will you find Morna Hooker featured in your church library?). There are ladies who produce excellent scholarship (in addition to those you mentioned, there is also Adele Reinhartz, Judith Lieu, Jeannine Brown, etc) but not many who have produced a large corpus of publications that would provide enough discounted publications and they were featured and won (but correct me if I am wrong on this). As a female academic I know said to me recently, the academic world is still largely a boys' club. This is true in ministry circles as well. As a result, there is disproportion between what the quantity available through male authors rather than female authors.

Besides Hunt, there is Beth Moore who published a lot, but I don't think she'd go far in the tournament either. 

Besides "representativeness" why do you think more female authors should be important? Would you feel more included? I am wondering whether other questions of representativeness would then pop up: more non-Caucasian or non-Western writers (again the publishing situation is prohibitive), denominational representativeness, language etc. This could get nightmarish in a hurry. 

Posts 8002
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 6:35 AM

Wonderous Grace:

Just an opinion, but ...

FL should rotate the winner off for 3 years or so that way there will be a new winner at least for a couple of years. This allows others to hit the top positions in other years ... This keeps more interest in MM by those that purchase ....

 

And by rotate I assume you mean remove the winner for at least 2 to 3 years that way others can have a chance to win. I'm I correct? Because if we are going to leave them in the competition and they win again then Faithlife cannot rotate them because supposedly we voted for the winner to win (though we really choosing who wins has always been very questionable).

DAL

Ps. Yep that's what you meant I missed the "off" part in the rotate statement hehehe

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 6:42 AM

I think all these comments are great recommendations.  And I don't think they demonstrate the immense marketing prowess of the forum members (although in comparison to a you-know-who Bible software company, it's impressive).  I'd assume each removal of a famous-white-man means the Bellingham bank gets fewer deposits to meet the Logosian payroll.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 343
Abram K-J | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 10:52 AM

Francis:

Besides "representativeness" why do you think more female authors should be important? Would you feel more included? I am wondering whether other questions of representativeness would then pop up: more non-Caucasian or non-Western writers (again the publishing situation is prohibitive), denominational representativeness, language etc. This could get nightmarish in a hurry. 

To more fully reflect the image of God, for one thing ("male and female he created them...."). So "representativeness" is a great reason in and of itself... don't you think?

Yes, of course other questions of having more robust offerings (along the lines of non-white writers, etc.) would then pop-up--and already have. And should! The body of Christ is far more diverse (and its already-published-and-available-in-print writings far more diverse) than what exists in Logos--though Olive Tree and Accordance are sadly not exempt from this criticism, either.

Karen Jobes is another name to add to the list. She's got three works already in Logos, with (hopefully) more on the way, or at least worthy of inclusion (Invitation to the Septuagint, her 1-3 John ZECNT commentary). Why was she not included this year? Why not Lynn Cohick?

Abram K-J: Pastor, Writer, Freelance Editor, Youth Ministry Consultant
Blog: Words on the Word

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 10:58 AM

Abram K-J:
Karen Jobes

But only three books are currently offered in Logos and I am not sure if they would all be discountable.

Posts 591
Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 5:08 PM

Francis:

Rayner:
They've provided one woman, and I'm still unimpressed.  Morna Hooker, Frances Young and Susanne Scholz are all people who've produced excellent literature and easily deserve to be placed heads above June Hunt who has, unsurprisingly, fallen at the first hurdle against somebody who actually was a bible scholar.  No contest.

Well, Hunt is the church library type of author (how often will you find Morna Hooker featured in your church library?).

Honestly?  In the UK, it would be much more difficult (in my view) to find a book by Hunt than one by Hooker.

Francis:

There are ladies who produce excellent scholarship (in addition to those you mentioned, there is also Adele Reinhartz, Judith Lieu, Jeannine Brown, etc) but not many who have produced a large corpus of publications that would provide enough discounted publications and they were featured and won (but correct me if I am wrong on this). As a female academic I know said to me recently, the academic world is still largely a boys' club. This is true in ministry circles as well. As a result, there is disproportion between what the quantity available through male authors rather than female authors.


Morna Hooker's books as listed by Wikipedia...

"They include:

  • Jesus and the Servant: The Influence of the Servant Concept of Deutero-Isaiah in the New Testament (1959)
  • The Son of Man in Mark (1973)
  • What about the New Testament? (jt. ed. 1975)
  • Interchange and atonement (1978)
  • Studying the New Testament (1979)
  • Pauline Pieces/A Preface to Paul (1980)
  • Paul and Paulinism (jt. ed. 1982)
  • Trial and tribulation in Mark XIII (1983)
  • The Message of Mark (1983)
  • Continuity and Discontinuity: Early Christianity in Its Jewish Setting (1986)
  • From Adam to Christ: Essays on St Paul (1990)
  • The Gospel according to St Mark (1993)
  • Not Ashamed of the Gospel: New Testament Interpretations of the Death of Christ (1994)
  • The Signs of a Prophet: The prophetic actions of Jesus (1997)
  • Beginnings: Keys that open the Gospels (1997)
  • Endings: Invitations to discipleship (2003)
  • Paul: A short introduction (2003)
  • Not in Word Alone (ed. 2003)
  • Paul: A beginner's Guide" (2008)"

What size corpus does one need, exactly to be considered worthy of the March Madness?

Francis:
Besides Hunt, there is Beth Moore who published a lot, but I don't think she'd go far in the tournament either. 

She doesn't appear to be a bible scholar, so from an academic point of view, I'd give her a wide berth.

Francis:
Besides "representativeness" why do you think more female authors should be important? Would you feel more included? I am wondering whether other questions of representativeness would then pop up: more non-Caucasian or non-Western writers (again the publishing situation is prohibitive), denominational representativeness, language etc. This could get nightmarish in a hurry. 

Lack of female authors is a personal bugbear.  I don't think an author's gender should matter that much, but when the main/only authors available are male, I do wonder whether certain insights and viewpoints might be absent.  And, yes, I would very much welcome non-Caucasian writers (I guess Augustine counts here) and more non-Western writers.  Every since MJ mentioned the Dalit Commentary, I've been hankering after reading that in Logos.  There's also the Asia Bible Commentary Series that hasn't made it into Logos.  Obviously, more languages are to be embraced, and I think Logos have already said that they plan on adding those...  I don't see why it should get nightmarish, but it might attract new Logos customers.

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 12:34 AM

Rayner:
Morna Hooker's books as listed by Wikipedia...

Granted, but before an author can be featured in March Madness, it's the list of books available in Logos that should matter. There is only one volume from Hooker (Mark, Black Commentary) available in Logos. So perhaps it would be better to militate to get more titles from female scholars in Logos first. Same for Adela Yarbro-Collins. The real question is: how many female authors are there who already have enough volumes available in Logos to make it an interesting prospect for March Madness? I don't know the answer but there is not a crowd of candidates coming to mind. This being said, there is greater representativeness in contributions (as opposed to monographs). I commonly come across articles and chapters from these eminent female scholars.

I personally do not care a whole lot where a work is coming from. An Asian or African commentary is not more interesting just because it is unusual as compared to what I am used to. The notion that it may provide fresh insights may or may not prove true. All I care about in the end is what whether it delivers true and useful insight for study, not just exotic theology or exegesis.

There is however, something to be said about encouraging the development of scholarship among populations that have many more challenges to overcome if they ever hope to be published and read. This can indeed include female writers (in boys' clubs) and scholars from nations else than the wealthy scholarship blocks: US, UK, Germany... Even scholars from France -- in spite of its strong academic tradition -- cannot publish and "succeed" as readily as those from the three previously mentioned nations. Perhaps providing such encouragement could be a separate type of event as I am not sure that it aligns well with what I perceive as purposes of March Madness. 

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 4:51 AM

Rayner:
I don't see why it should get nightmarish, but it might attract new Logos customers.Idea

Francis:
All I care about in the end is what whether it delivers true and useful insight for study, not just exotic theology or exegesis.Star

Francis:
There is however, something to be said about encouraging the development of scholarship... Perhaps providing such encouragement could be a separate type of event as I am not sure that it aligns well with what I perceive as purposes of March Madness.Yes

One Customer, One Vote - if it could be enforced, would provide results I'd find interesting.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 591
Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 4:58 AM

JAL:

Rayner:
I don't see why it should get nightmarish, but it might attract new Logos customers.Idea

Francis:
All I care about in the end is what whether it delivers true and useful insight for study, not just exotic theology or exegesis.Star

Francis:
There is however, something to be said about encouraging the development of scholarship... Perhaps providing such encouragement could be a separate type of event as I am not sure that it aligns well with what I perceive as purposes of March Madness.Yes

One Customer, One Vote - if it could be enforced, would provide results I'd find interesting.

I think I might give up and see if I could find another platform.  The problem with "one customer, one vote" is that people tend to vote for what they know, and thus you'd end up excluding all possible future markets.  There seem to be very few Catholics (at least on the forums) and thus one customer, one vote, would inevitably lead to further Protestant and Reformed publications, putting off other customers from adopting the platform and further exacerbating the issue.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 7:18 AM

Rayner:
I think I might give up and see if I could find another platform.

I sincerely hope your need is met, competition in the marketplace is welcome by me. Faithlife is a business for which competition can be beneficial. I'm personally encouraged by, as I see it, the ambitious nature of recent ventures by the company. This includes a broadening of the business, increasing diversity within the store of available resources. What I need from the products I get.

I've got my own bugbears, of course, for which there is no panacea. For the time being I've yoked my ox to the Faithlife wagon and will continue to adjure for improvement as I perceive the need while trusting that those leading the company know what is necessary to maintain viability.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 591
Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 4:43 PM

JAL:

Rayner:
I think I might give up and see if I could find another platform.

I sincerely hope your need is met, competition in the marketplace is welcome by me. Faithlife is a business for which competition can be beneficial. I'm personally encouraged by, as I see it, the ambitious nature of recent ventures by the company. This includes a broadening of the business, increasing diversity within the store of available resources. What I need from the products I get.

I've got my own bugbears, of course, for which there is no panacea. For the time being I've yoked my ox to the Faithlife wagon and will continue to adjure for improvement as I perceive the need while trusting that those leading the company know what is necessary to maintain viability.

Oh, it'll get there in time.  I think FL have an excellent share in the marketplace for publishing theological tomes which can be read, highlighted, manipulated and commented upon virtually.  I think the store does appear to be diversifying (especially with the denominational packages, and now with additional monographs).  It is just taking a while for the user base to catch up.  I'd love to see a Logos rep in the UK as I think there's an untapped market over here.

Posts 1239
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 8:04 PM

Faithlife staff, can we please get either a) better forum moderation or b) an ignore poster function?

For me, a paying customer, this forum is a place where I can learn more about a professional piece of software I use, also occasionally discover interesting books that I might not have found otherwise. All the drama that goes on here--and there's a incredible amount--is largely unnecessary, distracting at best, and horribly offensive at worst. Please do something to clean it up or give us the necessary tools to do so ourselves.

Posts 31865
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 9:19 PM

Under the more button is an option to report abuse ... more often resulting in personal contact rather than removal but sometimes very effectively

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 325
Sue McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 5 2015 9:35 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Who do you want to win? 

http://www.logosmarchmadness.com/

Brueggemann or Bauckham this time would be great according to my wishlist :-)

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 6 2015 1:37 AM

Mark Smith:

Bruce Dunning:
Who do you think will win?

YAWN! Same old, same old.

Yes

When I saw the subject line, my heart sank and I just felt bored with the whole thing. Then I thought, "Pull yourself together! You're just getting tired and cynical." I thought I must be in a minority of one, but then I started reading the threads and found there are more than a few of us.

IMO This promotion is past its sell-by date.

From my perspective I shall win this year, because I'm not even going to bother following it.

To those folks for whom this is fresh and new, then enjoy the discounts. It's a good way to save on resources for your library. I leave the field to you. I shall not be voting, because I won't be buying.

Every blessing

Alan

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Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 6 2015 1:45 AM

Sean:

Faithlife staff, can we please get either a) better forum moderation or b) an ignore poster function?

For me, a paying customer, this forum is a place where I can learn more about a professional piece of software I use, also occasionally discover interesting books that I might not have found otherwise. All the drama that goes on here--and there's a incredible amount--is largely unnecessary, distracting at best, and horribly offensive at worst. Please do something to clean it up or give us the necessary tools to do so ourselves.

Sean

The General forum is really just that a place where all sorts can and is posted about Logos generally. If you want tips and hints or answers to specific issues, then go to the more focussed forums. If you want to find out about specific resources then just asking about a specific area of interest can quickly provide a myriad of suggestions from other users.

Regarding moderation, I think it is fair to say that Logos is largely self-moderated. James 3:2-10 is a good guide for our conduct both in the physical and cyber worlds.

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1

iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1

Posts 4134
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 6 2015 5:44 AM

I would have voted for June Hunt - a fellow southern baptist - but I think I already have what she offers in Logos, not because I am a huge fan, just because it came as part of a base package I wanted. Her works were surprisingly good. But never-the-less I think thats a problem for a lot of these people - one and done authors don't normally get a lot of votes I don't think.

I am hoping for good discounts on anyone whose written a nicot/nicnt volume... Beyond that I probably won't buy too much (unless D.A. Carson wins. joking).

I am only moderately interested in MM, I spend about 100$ a year on it. This year I am prepared to spend 200(!). which means I will probably get about 3 or 4 nic volumes.

If you want to see these other women/non-pasty-faced-white-men win in march madness, you may need to raise their profile, and thus demand within the platform.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 591
Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 6 2015 6:50 AM

abondservant:

If you want to see these other women/non-pasty-faced-white-men win in march madness, you may need to raise their profile, and thus demand within the platform.

Yeah, that's a good point.  I think it's time to start spamming the suggest@logos.com email address some more.  :-)  Will run them through the Suggest forums too.  And maybe it raises the question of whether more balance would be attained by focusing not on authors, but on packages.

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 6 2015 8:43 AM

abondservant:
If you want to see these other women/non-pasty-faced-white-men

abondservant:
I would have voted for June Hunt

June Hunt is a "pasty-faced-white" chick. (I love her work.)  If I used a similar derogatory racial expressions applied to minorities I'd probably get severely reprimanded, and rightly so.  I prefer to rate resources by their quality of content and not the colour of the author's skin or what genitalia they may posses.

Yes, I said "chick."       I am a "dude."

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 6 2015 1:08 PM

ST you should be severely reprimanded . First, you clearly know better aadn second with a rusty metal piece with a star-shaped hole in it you should set a reasonable example. Go mow the lawn.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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