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This post has 297 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 33
Mark Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:13 AM

Mark Smith:

Mark Davis:
while this response makes the most sense to me financially speaking from everything I've read about Logos Now online so far, my problem is that we're paying about $200-$300 every 2-3 years to get the latest, cool Logos functionality, media, etc.; yet after that 2-3 years we're still going to have to pay the upgrade fee if we want some of that functionality and those resources to become a permanent part of our Logos/Faithlife library.

I hear you and I think it is a very legitimate concern. I am a supporter of having a portion of what I spend on Logos NOW go toward the upgrade cost of the next version. I know Faithlife is thinking about this, but it would be helpful if they would get specific and make a commitment.

Mark Davis:
So maybe Now should be marked more as an incredible new web app. that can do much of what your desktop software can do with access to your entire Logos library instead (with a bonus of all the cool new functionality and resources).

From what Bob said they are a long way from having a web app that is on a par with the desktop app. I think if they had that it would 'sell' very well as a rental tool either along with some rental content or as an adjunct to owned resources.

Well, if this list gets implemented, I will be pretty excited about it and more than willing to pay monthly for it.

Posts 3013
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:41 AM

Lynden Williams:

Remember the fight by telephone companies over who gave the best deal for minutes on your home system? .10 weekends vs .15 weekdays etc. All of that is out the window now with Voip. Skype, Google Talk, apps on mobile phones is cutting further into that line of thinking.

All of the money invested in Pots (Plain Old Telephone System) is almost wasted. Think about how much was invested by Internet Service Providers in dial up modems. Again money gone down the drain, if they did not recoup it by subscription or customer loyalty before Dsl and Cable took over. Not to mention ISDN. A 56k modem was fast in the late 1990's. My Isp has increased my speed from 500kb to 3 Mb to 15 to 20. They finally increased the cost by 2.00. (Slightly less, I did not take note of the difference)

Eleven years ago it took 4 weeks for Cd's to reach me from Bellingham (in the Bahamas) to get books when they were shipped. Now I can read the resource the moment it is released via the web or mobile device.

Remember when you had to pay for search engines to list your site? Or your hotmail account was limited to 25 MB.

My point is nothing is certain in the information age. What Logos is offering via the cloud (too much bandwidth/Hard drives too small) we may be able to hold on our mobile phones, and our children may have a hard time remembering what data limits was all about, and have to research 2G, 3G, 4G, Lte to to know what we are talking about. Nothing is static in the information age.

Yes, I do remember those days. How far we have come!

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

Visit My Site: Reformed Truths

Posts 32
Dorothy Pollock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:47 AM

Phil Gons:

Right now it's basically Biblia.com with a new user interface that looks pretty similar to the desktop app with a few small tweaks. We've not added much new functionality to it yet. There's another thread about the web app that talks about our tentative plans for adding features.

I just want to make sure I have this right:

1 .So if I access via my android or tablet, LOGOS NOW accesses all of my library I use on my desktop as does the current app, but it feels more like the desktop than the current app?

2. LOGOS NOW has some innovative features that I may or may not eventually get in my desktop version via standard updates?

These innovative "features" like the media browser in LOGOS NOW are not accessible in the desktop as this app and the desktop, while they share libraries from our base packages, are totally distinct entities?

One last question. If someone does NOT own LOGOS desktop, can they subscribe to this?
If so, what would they see as there is no base resource to access?

Thanks

Dorothy

Posts 1074
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:48 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Logos Now is a great deal, and we're going to be continually making it better. But I'm not going to try to argue you into it, and we're certainly not going to force anyone into it. I'm not offended if you choose to sit it out. I'm just a little sad that you'll be missing out on such a great deal. :-)

10 pages so far ... and nobody seems to have coherently justified this 'great deal'

Faithlife keeps talking about new data sets ... but the ones listed are not worth $1 per month (IMHO ... mileage may vary ... but $90 per year ... for how many years?)  ... this is certainly not in the realms of this being a 'great deal'. This feels like the Logos marketing machine ... Zip it!

The datasets proposed ... I hope that they are better that those in the L6 package ... which are good but incomplete ... I find myself using them less and less as I compare the Faithlife tagging with the results to searching.

There is talk of special members discounts ... but then we are back to Faithlife marketing ... offers that are not ... sales that are not ... this needs to be clearer ... I simply do not trust Faithlife when it comes to offers. (Of course I could still call a sales rep for secret deals ... in these days of digital sales of digital products)

Personally, I have no need for online processing ... a desktop is far more reliable (but many features are still missing from the desktop app before we start more new online ventures) ... compare that to logos servers that are ... well ...  Zip it!

As I see it, this is smoke and mirrors, or the emperors new clothes ... there is no real substance to the new service ... certainly not $90 p.a. worth

I would like Faithlife to be a little more open ... every two or three years Faithlife have a massive influx of cash when the releases new datasets, and they have lean years in-between. If Faithlife were saying that'll this service will be $90 p.a. up front ... and in 2 years we will give you an additional $180 off whatever base packages are then being offered then it would be clearer. Faithlife gets a steady cashflow ... we are locked into Faithlife for another couple of years. We get a few datasets early, Faithlife get our cash early. Not renting ... closer to hire-purchase ... we do not get our $180 back unless we upgrade ... that is our risk ... but we do not pay an unspecified extra of supporting an unknown event.

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 27681
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:59 AM

Dorothy Pollock:
So if I access via my android or tablet, LOGOS NOW accesses all of my library I use on my desktop as does the current app, but it feels more like the desktop than the current app?

No. First, this isn't an android app. Secondly, it is a website, which will IN THE FUTURE be more like the desktop app. Currently, it is similar to biblia.com. Third, I am sure that the web restrictions for the website will be similar to biblia.com. Access to your resources have this availability - DESKTOP APP > MOBILE APP > WEBSITE. That is to say, ALL resources are available on desktop. A smaller subset is on mobile. A smaller yet subset is on website.

Dorothy Pollock:
LOGOS NOW has some innovative features that I may or may not eventually get in my desktop version via standard updates?

Yes... It may be that you gain some of these features as part of a "free engine upgrade" to Logos 7 (whenever that is released).

Dorothy Pollock:
These innovative "features" like the media browser in LOGOS NOW are not accessible in the desktop as this app and the desktop, while they share libraries from our base packages, are totally distinct entities?

I have no idea what you are asking. Can you try again?

Dorothy Pollock:
If someone does NOT own LOGOS desktop, can they subscribe to this?

Anyone can "own desktop," since it is free. I assume you mean "does not own a base package," right? Faithlife will have to answer.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 139
Stephen Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:08 AM

For what it is worth.....

Being a layperson who forks out all the costs for Logos out of my own pocket I have absolutely no interest with SAAS (Software As A Service) model for Logos.  I know that is not what this is, now, but it sure looks like an indication of the future.

I am in IT and deal with software vendors all the time and the SAAS model is great for them because it generates a continuous stream of revenue. They get to keep their hands in your pocket.  For a business it can be good and there are ways to handle the expense. But I have no use for it personally.  Microsoft has been trying to do the same thing with Office for awhile.

If it ever comes to the point where SAAS (Logos Now) becomes the route in which to experience Logos or even new features from Logos I am afraid they will lose me as a customer which is sad.  To be honest, this concern will keep me from adding anything to my library until I see where this is going.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:09 AM

Dorothy Pollock:

Phil Gons:

Right now it's basically Biblia.com with a new user interface that looks pretty similar to the desktop app with a few small tweaks. We've not added much new functionality to it yet. There's another thread about the web app that talks about our tentative plans for adding features.

I just want to make sure I have this right:

1 .So if I access via my android or tablet, LOGOS NOW accesses all of my library I use on my desktop as does the current app, but it feels more like the desktop than the current app?

2. LOGOS NOW has some innovative features that I may or may not eventually get in my desktop version via standard updates?

These innovative "features" like the media browser in LOGOS NOW are not accessible in the desktop as this app and the desktop, while they share libraries from our base packages, are totally distinct entities?

One last question. If someone does NOT own LOGOS desktop, can they subscribe to this?
If so, what would they see as there is no base resource to access?

Thanks

Dorothy

See this page. https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow 

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 32
Dorothy Pollock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:13 AM

Sorry. I forgot Biblia.com was different from the LOGOS app I have. I have never used Biblia.com online.
I use the LOGOS app in my phone and android tablet.

I was asking if features in the web app, not in our desktop version would open within our desktop version. I believe not as they are distinct entities.

So now we will have the

LOGOS app
Biblia.com
Our desktop downloadable LOGOS6 or whatever versions

Yes, desktop is our LOGOS desktop version = the base packages.
Must you own that to use this web based service of LOGOS NOW?
I may have to try the free version to find out what's in it to know.

For instance, my sister does not own any LOGOS product.
Can she subscribe to LOGOS NOW?
Is it a standalone or simply an enhancement for current owners.

Posts 32
Dorothy Pollock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:15 AM

Excellent - thank you for the link to:
https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow 

FAQ says:
Do I need to own a Logos 6 base package to use Logos Now?

Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade, Gold, or higher will provide an optimal experience with Logos Now.

Get Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade

Upgrade to Logos 6 Gold


Is that a yes or a no?

Still wondering what the less than optimal experience would be for someone without a base package.

Posts 6483
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:19 AM

Dorothy Pollock:
I was asking if features in the web app, not in our desktop version would open within our desktop version.

What is in the desktop will eventually make it to the web app. The datasets listed by Phil are all on the desktop. https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow 

Dorothy Pollock:
Yes, desktop is our LOGOS desktop version = the base packages.
Must you own that to use this web based service of LOGOS NOW?

You can have the free engine without a base package. You get more bang for the buck with base package purchase. The same applies to bundles.

Dorothy Pollock:
For instance, my sister does not own any LOGOS product.
Can she subscribe to LOGOS NOW?
Is it a standalone or simply an enhancement for current owners.

Logos Now is best experienced with a base package. It is an enhancement for Base packages. Try if free and cancel anytime.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 6483
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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:21 AM

Dorothy, if you have a large library and some of the feature crossgrades it will work well. Not everyone purchases a base package.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 9090
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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:32 AM

Stephen Smith:
I know that is not what this is, now, but it sure looks like an indication of the future.

Yes it does and I think you can tell from Bob's comments that is clearly what Faithlife is thinking about for the future.

To balance that he has said he will maintain the computer-centric version of the software.

I am sure Faithlife knows what its user base is: all people who bought software, loaded it on their computer, etc. They can't abandon those folks without destroying their business. Even Office365 gives you a copy for your computer.

Stephen Smith:
SAAS model is great for them because it generates a continuous stream of revenue

Yep, and I like to be paid every couple of weeks, too. Faithlife needs more than just a big lump of income every few years. I'm surprised they've done so well with the model they have been using. Because I want them to be in business for a long time and want them to continue to develop great software, I hope they can develop some form of 'continuous stream of revenue'.

Stephen Smith:
If it ever comes to the point where SAAS (Logos Now) becomes the route in which to experience Logos or even new features from Logos I am afraid they will lose me as a customer which is sad. 

I will wait to see what develops, but like many here have a substantial investment in Logos resources so share a real concern about the future.

Stephen Smith:
this concern will keep me from adding anything to my library until I see where this is going

I am quite certain that owning our own resources will not go away anytime soon, so I am not so concerned about new purchases.

The fact is that every Bible software company would like to have what Faithlife is trying to develop. They can read the tea leaves, too. So a practical question is, where could I turn to invest in Bible study software and resources that has a better future than Faithlife?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 139
Stephen Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:00 AM

Good points Mark.  Faithlife is certainly the top-shelf producer of Bible study software to be sure.  For churches, seminaries, pastors, etc it is a cost that I suspect can be more easily absorbed and expensed by the budgets of those entities.

I have and will continue to enjoy Logos as long as I can.  Being a "civilian" in all of this I do not have the largest library or investment compared to most people I see posting.  But then again my needs are not as deep as most.  I upgrade every release and usually only add one or two books/sets a year so I am not the target customer I am sure.   I am one of those that most likely should not be trying to play in this area with the expensive toys.  I realize that there are cheaper or even free tools to be had out there, but I think the software is awesome.  But at some point I may have to just buy the Ford and leave the leasing of the BMW and Mercedes to others :-)

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:24 AM

Martin, the coherant justification is on page 14.

 I'd suspect the Bellingham duo are testing the forumic winds. So far they have 3 sheets up, with rent-and-maybe-later-you-can-own.  And somehow they haven't thought beyond that .... though the forumic winds have.

Actually I suspect the sailing problem will occur when there's two classes of Logosians ... can't-stop-renters, and can't-buy-it-ers. The latter will likely be a bit noisy.


Posts 1134
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:46 AM

As for me, I gave up renting/financing anything over thirty years ago.  If my husband and I cannot buy "it" outright, then we don't need it.  New resources, I will buy.  More features-I don't want, already verging on featuritis with L6.  If I were much younger, a subscription might appeal to me.  Old school suits me, though.

Posts 20
Marc van Eijden | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:48 AM

Stephen, that is exactly how it comes across to me. Logos will lose me too if it turns into a subscription program like Microsoft and others. But it is where the worlds is heading...

Posts 32
Dorothy Pollock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:49 AM

Lynden Williams:

Dorothy, if you have a large library and some of the feature crossgrades it will work well. Not everyone purchases a base package.

Thank you to you and everyone who answered my many questions.

So far I do not see anything that would make me participate with the LOGOS NOW but will keep up with its growth and see how it goes.
I recently bought the starter standard and then did a crossgrade for features. For me it was a lot of money to invest and I have invested many hours in tutorials etc to utilize its power. I love this program. It really changed my life with its many resources and got me into a bible study plan that has accelerated my yearly reading plan ahead by many months.
I was just hoping I had not made a mistake and would be thrown into a buyers remorse. I feel safe now that that is not the case.
I am primarily on my Desktop computer. On the go, a tablet or phone does not offer a good desktop experience in general, so using the current LOGOS app on android is enough to use the ESV and my commentaries if I want to keep up with my bible study plan.
I tend to do most of that at home as I love the full large screen experience my main PC gives me.

Dorothy

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 9:04 AM

Dorothy Pollock:
I love this program. It really changed my life with its many resources and got me into a bible study plan that has accelerated my yearly reading plan ahead by many months.

Dorothy, it is great to hear a testimony like this. I often try to get folks to see the value of an investment like Logos Bible software and they look at the price tag and freeze. As you know that investment is one time, but the dividends last a lifetime.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1074
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 9:44 AM

Denise:
Martin, the coherant justification is on page 14.

Big Smile

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 10:26 AM

Mark Smith:

Dorothy Pollock:
I love this program. It really changed my life with its many resources and got me into a bible study plan that has accelerated my yearly reading plan ahead by many months.

Dorothy, it is great to hear a testimony like this. I often try to get folks to see the value of an investment like Logos Bible software and they look at the price tag and freeze. As you know that investment is one time, but the dividends last a lifetime.

I agree with Dorothy and Mark.  The program has been worth the investment for myself and has been invaluable in the work I do.

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