Faithlife Pre-Pub is it a broken system?

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This post has 35 Replies | 3 Followers

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Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 2:50 AM

David Taylor Jr:
I would almost rather have the actual content now whether or not it has tags. At least to have the resource, but that may just be me. So yeah, a vyrso solution would be nice.

Agree.  This was my suggestion the other day.  I really have very little requirement for the tagging (except for bible verses) if the text is fully searchable.

Posts 591
Rayner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 2:53 AM

MJ. Smith:

Dan Francis:

 I know for example the majority of the works I want in FL are in the Classics of Western Spirituality Bundle (126 vols.) now this well may never get made yet I would suspect 1/3 of the titles in this massive collection would be heavy sellers for FL, but because of the Pre-PUB system and the cost of this massive collection FL loses sales to say Kindle for key classical works of Spirituality.

-Dan

Question: Is the issue pre-pub or bundling or users wanting unrealistic discounts?

I think this is a key question, MJ.  I would almost certainly suggest that the Classics of Western Spirituality is too large (and too expensive) to get anywhere for several years.  I think it needs to be rebundled.  There are quite a lot of "classics" that span various traditions, many of which wouldn't be of interest to those who buy on a tradition specific basis.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 5:23 AM

I think too that some people probably (I know I have) pull out of a PP or CP because it takes too long and they lose hope.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 5:38 AM

Pre-pub allows people like me to lock in at a low price who would have difficulty paying the full price, and do not have the cost of the Pre-pub at the time we lock it in.

To change the model to require a down payment would mean that some (I) would miss many great deals.

I have a book budget but it is not that large. I get most of my books through Base packages.

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 7:49 AM

Lynden Williams:

Pre-pub allows people like me to lock in at a low price who would have difficulty paying the full price, and do not have the cost of the Pre-pub at the time we lock it in.

To change the model to require a down payment would mean that some (I) would miss many great deals.

I have a book budget but it is not that large. I get most of my books through Base packages.

I don't know if it's just my perception, but I haven't been seeing as many deals on pre-pub. There seem to be a couple of outstanding ones at the moment, so it's not like it's all the time, but I feel like the pre-pub discount often isn't (especially if you can wait for a sale or bundling).

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 7:59 AM

I don't see any "deals" on PP.  What I see are books that Logos is hedging their bets on whether they should produce them or not.  When I see deals, they are in CP.

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 8:08 AM

PP and CP are often good deals. But that does not stop spending money.

I just wonder if I started now, I could not buy all what I have with the same funds, but I would probably be much more selective, and the end result could be equally useful.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 9:46 AM

I am glad to see the exceptions pointed out clearly telling us that at times PrePub is in name only. But I feel in those cases where PP has been skipped a more useful designation might be to label it under development. I do believe I can come up with one more exception... Westminster Bible Companion did go from almost there to shipping in about 5 weeks, so it may well be possible the Reformation Study Bible is being worked on but it is also just as possible no work has started. Even if PP is left alone fully can at least get items FL has prioritized and is literally being worked on labeled as Under Development??? Maybe the distinction is not that important but I do feel such a simple distinction might keep some from giving up hope and purchasing elsewhere. I personally am not even in for the PP of the RSB (after comparing the sample with my New Geneva Study Bible I decided I could live without the update), but it seemed to me to be sad thing that it's development is languishing while it is for sale elsewhere many other places. To use the example given above of a hot selling book taking 2 years to reach FL is good example again. By the time it reaches FL many people  may well have read it elsewhere and see no need for it in their FL library. I feel that I am definitely in the minority having raised the question (not that I wanted PP done away with) but I my hope not to get rid of PP but to have it tweaked to be better.

-Dan

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 10:37 AM

Veli Voipio:

PP and CP are often good deals. But that does not stop spending money.

I just wonder if I started now, I could not buy all what I have with the same funds, but I would probably be much more selective, and the end result could be equally useful.

The way PP is structured now, it is designed to make you less selective because it often forces customers to buy bundles now ( sometimes with many books that you would not even think about purchasing or event borrowing if it was not for the bundle). This artificial sense of urgency is reinforced by the fact that the price is designed to increase after a few weeks of the initial offering thus encouraging you to buy now and keep your order because you do not have the luxury of ordering later at the same price even if it is still in the PP stage.

For me this approach while certainly beneficial to Logos' bottom line, is wasteful and often leads to regret, I do not think that the customers interest was first and foremost in that decision.

If I had to start over again, I would probably only have half of the books I have now in my library.

A good deal is only so if you actually use what you buy.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 11:08 AM

Alain Maashe:
way PP is structured now, it is designed to make you less selective because it often forces customers to buy bundles now ( sometimes with many books that you would not even think about purchasing or event borrowing if it was not for the bundle).

Very often Publishers dictate how the books should be sold by Logos. In other words, they want them bundled. Logos goes after not so much one book, but probably 30 -  40 at a time that are being published/released at a time. 

The publisher says to Logos,  You may publish these, but put them in a bundle until we decide that you can unbundle them.

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Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 2:03 PM

Lynden Williams:

Alain Maashe:
way PP is structured now, it is designed to make you less selective because it often forces customers to buy bundles now ( sometimes with many books that you would not even think about purchasing or event borrowing if it was not for the bundle).

Very often Publishers dictate how the books should be sold by Logos. In other words, they want them bundled. Logos goes after not so much one book, but probably 30 -  40 at a time that are being published/released at a time. 

The publisher says to Logos,  You may publish these, but put them in a bundle until we decide that you can unbundle them.

If the publishers are to blame for this trend (something I really doubt), then Logos is very bad at negotiating because competitors often do not have the same restrictions and are generally able to offer bundles and individual books at the same time.

It is hard to believe that Logos, the biggest player in the Bible software industry, consistently gets worse deals than smaller players.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 3:05 PM

Alain Maashe:
If the publishers are to blame for this trend (something I really doubt), then Logos is very bad at negotiating because competitors often do not have the same restrictions and are generally able to offer bundles and individual books at the same time.

I have no inside info about FL's negotiations. I do know that things are a little different with Logos resources since they are "value added" resources.

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Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2015 4:06 PM

Call me crazy, but I think that FL has changed its focus to production of their own resources/datasets because:

1. They are more profitable.

2.  They don't have to compete on price with companies like Amazon, OT/Harper Collins and Accordance.  

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2015 4:58 PM

Tony Thomas:

Call me crazy, but I think that FL has changed its focus to production of their own resources/datasets because:

1. They are more profitable.

2.  They don't have to compete on price with companies like Amazon, OT/Harper Collins and Accordance.  

I don't think "changed" is the right word..."broadened" is more accurate, and "more profit to them". I think it's funny, infuriating, no...funny, no...infuriating, well, I'm pretty sure it's one of those...that Logos customers are constantly griping about how they want to own their own products in case Logos goes out of business, but when methods of generating revenue, such as, say...I don't know...Logos Now, for instance, are implemented, which would help Faithlife have steady, dependable (oh, did I mention VOLUNTARY??) income, they get uncomfortable, pissy, no...uncomfortable, no...pissy, well, I'm quite sure it's one of those...even though the revenue stream that Logos Now will generate for Faithlife is the magic elixir that will keep the dreaded bogey man of bankruptcy from ever showing his unwelcomed head. Odd, that.

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2015 6:44 PM

Tony Thomas:

Call me crazy, but I think that FL has changed its focus to production of their own resources/datasets because:

1. They are more profitable.

2.  They don't have to compete on price with companies like Amazon, OT/Harper Collins and Accordance.  

Undoubtably one can look at CP as a prime example. Designed to make sure production costs are covered after that each and every sale is close to 100% profit. I am not saying that many of the works are not worth their cost, just that the post price seems rather high... for example, Classic Commentary collection ends up being $3500 for each sale with a high portion of profit. Are those 1500 volumes worth it, very possibly but it also ends up being an extremely good deal for FL.  But on point 2 they tend to price the resources far higher than Amazon (say Treasury of David, numerous kindle versions are available from 79¢ to $9, FL regular price on the set is $60). Now I would not want to have TOD in Kindle and the FL version is much more valuable due to it's tagging, but as it's production cost have been covered by CP is $59 a justifiable price and in March Madness this resource ends up costing $126 to purchase (the madness would come if anyone bought this).

-Dan

Posts 6407
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2015 7:33 PM

It's broken in the sense that it takes too long for products to make it out of production.  I know people complain when there's too many products coming out, but hey, that's on them for ordering too many things that they will not be able to afford, but for us who are on a tight budget and only order the few things we need, it shouldn't be a problem if things are released early; but instead, we are made to wait too long for prepubs that have been in production too long.  Yes I know too many too longs hehehe

DAL

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