My take on Logos Now

I am sure that it is a good product and good value. It will be a great deal for many people.

But for now I am not interested. I do not use all the features of Logos 6, and see no need to spend additional money for more features.

What I want from Logos is my Bibles, my lexicons and language tools, my commentaries, and a good theological library including historical resources such as the Church Fathers, Wesley's Works, Luther. I want books, books, books.

I want these resources tagged so that they work together intuitively. I want to be able to do a concordance search on every resource.

I will interpret my own prepositions, thank you. That is not an exact science and some interpretation is involved. Call me old fashioned, but I had rather read what a good commentary by Moo or Oswalt thinks about the interpretation of a preposition than some data base.

So I am simple in my wants in Bible software, and how I use Logos. In 25 years of buying books from Logos, I have never lost a purchased resource, or had one wear out. I cannot say that for my paper books. So I feel quite good about continuing to buy my theological books from Logos.

I may change my mind as time goes on. There are rare occasions when I do. But for now, I will stick with the old fashioned Logos 6 that I have, and add some more books, books, books.

For me it is mostly about the books.

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Comments

David Taylor, Jr.

Good thoughts.

Lew Worthington

For me it is mostly about the books.

Michael has said fairly succinctly what I've been trying to convey several times in various posts. Most of the more advanced tagging features require judgments, and I kind of like my judgments best of all. Furthermore, these nice tools are great for someone who needs a little Greek/Hebrew boost every now and then (or always; and that's fine), or who has skills in Logos far beyond what I'll ever have, or whose methods take them into areas that Logos particularly treats well. I think they're fun, but they haven't added much to my research.

I'm happy with what I've got, and I'm very happy with my library.

Having said that, I'm still intrigued by the possibility of "special offers" for Logos Now folks. So it basically comes down to this: Will these special offers alone be enough, mathematically, to make the investment of a hundred bucks a year+ worthwhile. I'm still trying to decide.

Alex Scott

For me it is mostly about the books

That's where I am too Michael, that and a simple search function.. I really don't need the ability to find out how many times the word 'to' occurs within 3 words of 'the' in books written between 1905 and 1955 by authors whose name starts with 'W' who aren't members of a particular denomination.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714862#Comment_714862

I have three concerns with the current status of LOGOS/FaithLife:

The aging of the software means that many of us who purchased our original libraries ages ago, did so relatively cheaply. But with the increased number of resources there are fewer ways for new users to break into the LOGOS world in a cost effective way. Renting may be a way to provide access to an increasing number of books in a cost effective way for new users.
My second concern is that most LOGOS users only make small purchases, limiting the cash flow and the total income to support further development. Renting may also allow more LOGOS users afford access to larger libraries.
I am also concerned about the role that MVPs are playing in the support of the software. They too are aging - some are choosing to participate less, some are dropping out, and a few have passed away over the last few years. I see few new names being added to the list of MVPs. This may be the function of most LOGOS users making relatively small purchases. I would hope that LOGOS will be adding new MVPs as time progresses.

I am glad that LOGOS is, for the foreseeable future, committing itself to supporting those of us who own libraries. I wonder if that number will decline as new users climb onto the rental program and others of us move past active Bible Study (for whatever reason). This will be extended for a few years when current users pass on their LOGOS libraries to younger users - but LOGOS needs to find a way to maintain a current income stream if it is to continue to exist in its current form.

Of course, if another company purchases LOGOS (e.g. Zondervan or Moody), all the rules may change.

Tom

For me it is mostly about the books

[Y] [:D]

Lew Worthington

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714894#Comment_714894

Of course, if another company purchases LOGOS (e.g. Zondervan ....)

Noooooo! [:)]

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714905#Comment_714905

Of course, if another company purchases LOGOS (e.g. Zondervan ....)

Noooooo!

But, as for the rent/own option, we as users will have little to say about that future either.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714894#Comment_714894

I'm definitely with the OP. I'm sure there's some value to the new tools, but I'm still behind the curve of what I already own. I used to dream about the capabilities I have at my fingertips today.

If this pushes new features into Logos, I'm all for it. I still have a full plate for now.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714894#Comment_714894

I am also concerned about the role that MVPs are playing in the support of the software. They too are aging...

Isn't everyone aging? [*-)] Is there another option? [;)]

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714894#Comment_714894

I am also concerned about the role that MVPs are playing in the support of the software. They too are aging

What are you talking about Floyd? I am only 26! [:D] In my dreams....

Ted Weis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714862#Comment_714862

I'm still intrigued by the possibility of "special offers" for Logos Now folks. So it basically comes down to this: Will these special offers alone be enough, mathematically, to make the investment of a hundred bucks a year+ worthwhile.

To be worthwhile, the deals would have to be significantly better than the normal monthly sales discount, in order to "recoup" the $89 membership. Maybe deep discount deals could be offered with the copyright-free, community-pricing resources Logos has created over the years.

Travis Walter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714956#Comment_714956

I'm waiting for 2 things..

1) the yearly sub (and then i'm still on the fence-- but I dont do month subs, ick)

2) the announcement of the "special offers" honestly if Logos just says you get 100% of your investment back in discounts on the next base package, I'm sure a lot of people would jump on board. In if this is a revenue stream for Logos, as the saying goes, "A bird in hand, is better than two in the bush".

Bruce Roth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714956#Comment_714956

I'm still intrigued by the possibility of "special offers" for Logos Now folks. So it basically comes down to this: Will these special offers alone be enough, mathematically, to make the investment of a hundred bucks a year+ worthwhile.

To be worthwhile, the deals would have to be significantly better than the normal monthly sales discount, in order to "recoup" the $89 membership. Maybe deep discount deals could be offered with the copyright-free, community-pricing resources Logos has created over the years.

The monthly Logos Now fee reminds me of the various "warehouse clubs" that I once participated in where you paid an annual fee to get access to the store and the discounts. You wound up buying a large bags or boxes of grocery items and thought, "wow, I am saving a lot of money by getting this stuff cheap". You would end buying stuff you didn't need, some went to waste and at the end of the year if you looked at the purchasing you probably didn't recoup the annual fee.

Works for some but not all.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714927#Comment_714927

I am also concerned about the role that MVPs are playing in the support of the software. They too are aging...

Isn't everyone aging? Is there another option?

But I hope that LOGOS is looking for new blood to replace those that are leaving the ranks. Those of you who have volunteered five or ten years ago cannot be expected to carry on the work forever.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714940#Comment_714940

I am also concerned about the role that MVPs are playing in the support of the software. They too are aging

What are you talking about Floyd? I am only 26! In my dreams....

I thought you were all 39?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714956#Comment_714956

Maybe deep discount deals could be offered with the copyright-free, community-pricing resources Logos has created over the years.

That is an idea I really like.

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714975#Comment_714975

Bucks for Books

I don't really want to buy more gadgets, more stuff that bloats Logos and slows it even more. However, I would be willing to divvy up bucks for books and a snappier interface.

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714994#Comment_714994

I find that all I want is less bells, whistles, gadgets, pretty pictures, whizz bang thing-a-magigs, and endless "opportunities" for great deals on 100 year old public domain works. I still wait on Paul Tillich's work to be added (if not recently) since he was a foundational figure in 20th century theology. So what do I want...really...less fluff with predigested conclusions and just a basic tool to let me do exegetical work the way I learned it in seminary...and inexpensive magazine bundles. It's great software just need less of more.

Michael March

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715001#Comment_715001

I find myself agreeing with most in this thread, who are agreeing with the OP. I like searchable books. Lots of them. I too have put virtually all my library dollars into Logos for the past decade plus and I find this program an incredible tool for doing research for Bible studies and preaching sermons. I would not want to be without it as I've really learned to depend on it and I love using it. But I know I don't use even half of the tools I already have. I've been to several workshops, and I just can't seem to stay current on all the program can do and I can't seem to make the time to study it continually to keep current. I think Logos now might be great for some, but it's looking more like a pass to me for now at least.

Mathew Voth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715038#Comment_715038

I don't know if this changes anything for you, Michael, but it's propositional outlines, not prepositions!

https://www.logos.com/product/51517/old-testament-propositional-bible-outlines-dataset

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715044#Comment_715044

I haven't upgraded to L6 yet. I started with L3 Scholars Library and moved up to L4 Platinum (with a bunch of added resources and collections) and then eventually upgraded to Biblical Languages L5. Since then my purchases have dropped considerably. I didn't even buy anything for March Madness (partly because I have become sick of it).

At this point, the only reason I would ever upgrade again is for the discount on resources that it comes with. I am happy with the features of L5.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715112#Comment_715112

Hi Josh

At this point, the only reason I would ever upgrade again is for the discount on resources that it comes with. I am happy with the features of L5.

Just wanted to check you are aware you can get the core L6 engine for free - https://www.logos.com/product/46767/logos-6-core-engine

As well as some new capabilities this is where most bug fixes are going to be done - as opposed to against L5.

Graham

Greg F

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715115#Comment_715115

I upgraded to Verbum 6 for the discounts on the resources -- the software might have new bells and whistles (most of which I don't really use), but it's twice as slow. I would go back to the Logos 5 engine if it weren't such a hassle to downgrade..

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715118#Comment_715118

I upgraded to Verbum 6 for the discounts on the resources -- the software might have new bells and whistles (most of which I don't really use), but it's twice as slow.

I find Logos 6.2 is an improvement over v6.1 and close to Logos 5's speed when starting. In some cases the formatting of results from Basic Search is slow and FL are aware of this. MVP's have suggested a couple of areas where startup can be further improved, so please don't feel you are being trapped into a perennially slower system.

Ron

I want these resources tagged so that they work together intuitively.

[Y] +1

This comment inspired this thought: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/103431.aspx

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714894#Comment_714894

Of course, if another company purchases LOGOS (e.g. Zondervan or Moody), all the rules may change.

I know this was said in a light spirit, so I'll reply in kind: "Not gonna happen."

IMHO Faithlife is doing quite well, and is positioning themselves as a company more likely to buy than to be bought.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715044#Comment_715044

I don't know if this changes anything for you, Michael, but it's propositional outlines, not prepositions!

https://www.logos.com/product/51517/old-testament-propositional-bible-outlines-dataset

I could have sworn I saw a 39.99 price tag on those Old Testament propositional outlines this morning when I clicked on the link.

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715115#Comment_715115

Hi Josh

At this point, the only reason I would ever upgrade again is for the discount on resources that it comes with. I am happy with the features of L5.

Just wanted to check you are aware you can get the core L6 engine for free - https://www.logos.com/product/46767/logos-6-core-engine

As well as some new capabilities this is where most bug fixes are going to be done - as opposed to against L5.

Graham

Yes, I am aware. I guess you can say I live by the old idiom: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715044#Comment_715044

I don't know if this changes anything for you, Michael, but it's propositional outlines, not prepositions!

https://www.logos.com/product/51517/old-testament-propositional-bible-outlines-dataset

That is a big laugh on me. I can't believe I misread it, which just shows how interested I am in all these new features. But no, it would not change anything for me.

I do the old fashioned inductive Bible Study with Logos. That is the inductive Bible study I learned from the god-father of inductive Bible study, Robert Traina. And I do old fashioned exegesis that I learned from Bob Lyons. I just integrate Logos into what I have always done. I have no intention of learning to do it another way. Works for me. I am not saying my way is for everyone. It just works for me.

I cannot imagine a new feature that I want. But books? I want millions of them.

Faster searches, I'd be interested in. A better library manager, too.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715410#Comment_715410

My resistance to technology wore out long ago. I just need an incentive that's long-term focused.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715375#Comment_715375

I don't know if this changes anything for you, Michael, but it's propositional outlines, not prepositions!
https://www.logos.com/product/51517/old-testament-propositional-bible-outlines-dataset

I could have sworn I saw a 39.99 price tag on those Old Testament propositional outlines this morning when I clicked on the link.

I did see that price tag I would like to have it back with an option to buy it right away.

Rayner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715410#Comment_715410

I cannot imagine a new feature that I want. But books? I want millions of them.

Yeah, that's me too. And journals

David Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715490#Comment_715490

I don't like the Logos now idea in that it's a 2 tiered system.

I would prefer that you could buy or rent any resource.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715734#Comment_715734

I realize that this is a six-month-old thread, but I've been busily trying to understand what Logos Now is about and have read a lot of past threads today about it. I didn't pay much attention to previous email announcements and dismissed it because I confused it with Logos Cloud.

However, I am wondering if anyone who had doubts about Logos Now has changed his or her mind. My initial reaction is summed up by several who have said that they didn't use a good bit that is available in their Logos 6 base package. I love technology, probably too much, so I need to be convinced to pay additionally for an annual subscription.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775853#Comment_775853

Doesn't High Definition NT and OT include propositional outline? Please correct me if I am wrong. It feels like I am paying twice...

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775853#Comment_775853

Bill, I'm not going to directly answer your question but I am going to put my foot in my mouth by raising an embarrassing question. Why do Logos users want to simply do Bible study as they always have rather than taking advantage of tools that allow them to answer questions that without technology they could only ask ... not answer? I find that several steps in some popular Bible study methods are primarily "busy work" i.e. stuff that takes time but doesn't extend one's understanding. Often these are analogous to steps we learned in Language Arts in 4-7 grades and then set aside as the knowledge gained became "automatic".

My personal prejudice in Bible study leans towards intertextuality and intratextuality ... think of an interest in Judaic interpretation, reception criticism, liturgical theology ... as such I find tools such as the Synopsis of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles; Parallel Gospel Reader;Corresponding Words visual filter, sections such as Ancient Literature ... and the Concordance especially if it supported n-grams ... allow me to go places with my study that I would not be able to without the Logos tools.

Yes I don't

use a good bit that is available in their Logos 6 base package

because it does not help me (a) perform the tasks I need to perform (b) add to my understanding of the passage in ways that I am not already getting by other means or (c) I haven't bothered to figure out what they supposedly offer that I'm not getting through other Logos tools. But that has nothing to do with whether or not tools currently being created are or are not of use to me.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775857#Comment_775857

Doesn't High Definition NT and OT include propositional outline? Please correct me if I am wrong. It feels like I am paying twice...

No, they are both rooted in discourse analysis. And some of the additional information provided by the Propositional Outline is coded in the icons within the High Definition Text.

C M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715357#Comment_715357

IMHO Faithlife is doing quite well, and is positioning themselves as a company more likely to buy than to be bought.

Is this more wishful thinking, fact, or opinion? If you're not a FL administrator, your view is as good as a thousand leaves.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/714894#Comment_714894

My second concern is that most LOGOS users only make small purchases, limiting the cash flow and the total income to support further development. Renting may also allow more LOGOS users afford access to larger libraries.

I have spent a little over 20,000$ since 2011.

I'm not sure that counts as small.

Just be wary of projecting your own purchasing pattern as the status quo.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775885#Comment_775885

Doesn't High Definition NT and OT include propositional outline? Please correct me if I am wrong. It feels like I am paying twice...

No, they are both routed in discourse analysis. And some of the additional information provided by the Propositional Outline is coded in the icons within the High Definition Text.

Thanks! That is helpful to know. Is that propositional outline in ESV part of Logos Now? Are you a subscriber?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775929#Comment_775929

Is that propositional outline in ESV part of Logos Now?

Propositional Outlines in the New Testament was introduced in Logos 6 (core crossgrade or Silver Base Package or higher) as per https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92621.aspx

Propositional Outlines in the Old Testament are available in Logos Now - not available in all OT books yet but more are continually added

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775942#Comment_775942

Is that propositional outline in ESV part of Logos Now?

Propositional Outlines in the New Testament was introduced in Logos 6 (core crossgrade or Silver Base Package or higher) as per https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92621.aspx

Propositional Outlines in the Old Testament are available in Logos Now - not available in all OT books yet but more are continually added

Okay. Thank you for the clarification!

Phil Gons (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775853#Comment_775853

I realize that this is a six-month-old thread, but I've been busily trying to understand what Logos Now is about and have read a lot of past threads today about it. I didn't pay much attention to previous email announcements and dismissed it because I confused it with Logos Cloud.

However, I am wondering if anyone who had doubts about Logos Now has changed his or her mind. My initial reaction is summed up by several who have said that they didn't use a good bit that is available in their Logos 6 base package. I love technology, probably too much, so I need to be convinced to pay additionally for an annual subscription.

Bill, I'll give you a quick insiders perspective. Logos Now had a nice spike of early adoption, by, you guessed it, the early adopters. Since then, it's been steady growth, with smaller spikes happening every six weeks with the release of a new software version and new value added to Now. Some people considered the early releases to have enough value to warrant the $8.99/mo. (or $7.50/mo. if paid annually). But as time passes, more and more people are becoming convinced and jumping on board. We've been quite encouraged by the response. Many who were strongly resistant to any kind of subscription are now using and enjoying Logos Now. October's free book promotion for the annual subscription has been hugely successful. It was just what many people needed to jump on board. 6.7 ships on Monday, which will even further increase the value. Over time we hope it becomes such a compelling value that everyone subscribes.

Al Het

I'm really somewhat surprised at all these answers, and who they've come from. I've always felt like the dinosaur around here, just wanting the software to search my lexicons as well as they did in the past (which it doesn't).

I strongly suspect that with the creation of Logos Now, the days of being able to buy and install Logos on one's own machine are numbered. The confirmation of Phil Gons that it is selling well just solidifies my expectation that it could be coming fairly soon. Unfortunately, that is the direction that many software companies are going, and Logos has always prided themselves at being on the front edge, not the back, of technology trends...

Large companies in other fields have al0ready forced this direction. For instance, Adobe doesn't make their industry standard software Photoshop anymore. They sell subscriptions, just like Logos has begun to. In fact, I believe it began the same way, with Adobe saying they were just providing another option for consumers. Then, when they had a fairly stable number of people using it, they announced the end of their Photoshop software being sold to consumers.

These software companies like it because it gives them a steady stream of income. They market it as offering greater value, as you are always up to date with the latest tools and procedures. However, if you don't want to work online, if you don't want all those latest tools and procedures, or you can't really afford monthly subscriptions, you're kind of stuck.

Genghis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715404#Comment_715404

Yes, I am aware. I guess you can say I live by the old idiom: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Yes there are some advantages to this but life is progressing, computers and the Internet is getting faster; people are finding new ways to make what was previously readily available to seminary students and graduates to the hoi polloi.

This in turn will usher in further reforms as people dig deeper, question previous dogma and a new force for transformation will grow.

I'm excited for the future. Yes, what you have now satisfies you, but you don't what is just around the corner.

The ability to collaborate with other users, is still relatively untapped. The Notes area is still relatively rudimentary. A journal for keeping personal thoughts and reflections would be useful for those who want to "live" in Logos. A better interface (drag and drop?) for creating your own Personal Books would be exciting. A greater range of Catholic and Judaic materials would enrich user experiences out of sight.

I'm not an expert but image how much more there could be from those who are more knowledgeable?

Genghis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/776268#Comment_776268

However, if you don't want to work online, if you don't want all those latest tools and procedures, or you can't really afford monthly subscriptions, you're kind of stuck

The advent of a sufficiently quick and reliable Internet has allowed products change to services. It's also made us very dependent on being on the Internet so governments are beginning to consider the Internet as an essential infrastructure service like other utilities.

Looks like people will have to fall back on virtualisation technologies to allow them to run legacy software on older environments in order to gain offline access.

Having said that, I've just shifted over to Office 365 and now it's available on up to 5 PCs and 5 Tablets. That works out to be very economical for a busy family of six and our eldest is aged 11. Office 365 also allows you to download the app so you always have offline access. Just haven't figured out OneDrive yet.

Hopefully other's will take Microsoft's lead and make their products as accessible and affordable.

PEW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/776087#Comment_776087

Can't wait for 6.7!!! Logos Now is just getting better and better. I use the app.logos.com quite a bit and that is also getting better and better too. I am glad i paid the full one year amount before the CAD dropped.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/775860#Comment_775860

Why do Logos users want to simply do Bible study as they always have rather than taking advantage of tools that allow them to answer questions that without technology they could only ask ... not answer?

I can answer this question from my perspective, as a pastor.

Each and every week, I need to prepare between one and three teachings from the Bible, and a sermon. During each and every week, I also need to do and additional 30 or more hours of church related work. Some of that time is what I would consider direct "ministry," some of it is spent doing the regular "stuff" that needs to get done for a church to operate. I could clearly spend more hours doing a variety of other things related to study and ministry, but this seems to be the right balance, giving me an appropriate amount of time with my family each week as well. All that to say, it would be great to have more time for sermon and Bible Study prep, but that rarely happens.

Now to your question about "answering questions." With the limited time I have to prepare Bible Study and sermons, I want the Biblical text to answer the questions surrounding how God wants us to live, in intimate relationship with Him. I want to accurately, and clearly glean the truth of each passage we are studying, and what its practical daily application is to our lives with God through Jesus Christ. In my week-in, week-out study, I'm not nearly as interested in the high-minded theoretical and philosophical questions, or in drawing on expansive cross volume studies as I am the solid truth that each passage teaches us for living. In my regular prep time, I'm not particularly interested in answering different questions. I'm interested in making sure I'm doing solid, appropriate study, and using my time wisely.

This is where good Bible software is so helpful to the Pastor. I can exegete the text in a fraction of the time I used to need. Greek and Hebrew tools that I always had but took a long time to use, looking up a dozen or more words in several lexicons, are now available at just few clicks (but used to be available in single click or two, with Libronix). Commentaries are faster to access as well, though this is not as huge a time saver as the language ones are.

Logos began as precisely this type of tool, specifically for pastors and others who were doing the work of Sermon and Bible Study prep. It has clearly (and intentionally, I believe) morphed into something far more than that, and today might be more intentionally aimed at the scholar who wants to research, than the pastor who wants to prepare messages each week. I think what you are hearing in many of these comments is, this gradual shift of focus to more in-depth, conceptual study across vast resources has made Logos feel less agile when it comes to straight-forward, week-in, week-out study of Bible for the purpose of regular teaching.

From my perspective, anyway.

Have a great weekend, everyone.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/776268#Comment_776268

I strongly suspect that with the creation of Logos Now, the days of being able to buy and install Logos on one's own machine are numbered. The confirmation of Phil Gons that it is selling well just solidifies my expectation that it could be coming fairly soon. Unfortunately, that is the direction that many software companies are going, and Logos has always prided themselves at being on the front edge, not the back, of technology trends...

Large companies in other fields have al0ready forced this direction. For instance, Adobe doesn't make their industry standard software Photoshop anymore. They sell subscriptions, just like Logos has begun to. In fact, I believe it began the same way, with Adobe saying they were just providing another option for consumers. Then, when they had a fairly stable number of people using it, they announced the end of their Photoshop software being sold to consumers.

I don't know about adobe, and really can't say anything at all even close to good about them. However, I can say that Logos has, and will continue to have a desktop version. Bob has even said this at one point.

Look at it from the perspective of a car owner. I can't speak for you, but I have spent enough money in logos that in two years I will have spent far far more than the value of my car, and possibly more than the value of my home (not the land mind you, just the home). So I think in some ways a car is a fair comparrison.

Some people (Like Denise!) love the classics. They prefer the 1969 camaro. It looked great, had stellar performance for its year, and has retained quite a bit of value despite its age and the sheer number of 1st gen camaros available. For people that want a classic that they are familiar with Logos allows us that option. People are still using L3. I have a bunch of (and recently ordered a few more) L2 cd's. Other people are still driving and happy with their 2015 camaro when the 2016 comes out. But because the 2016 is available they drop their 2015 like a hot potato and rush down and buy the 2016 in whatever color they can get their hands on.

Logos - as far as I can tell, and based upon what Bob has said - intends to continue putting a new version out there every so often that people can buy. This way the 1969 camaro owner can look down their nose at the new editions and cling to their older but still amazing classic. This way the 2015 owner can still jump on the bandwagon when the 2016 comes out.

Enter Logos Now. With Logos now, the 2015 owner (but not the 69' owner) can drive by the dealership once every few weeks and have any of the new 2016 parts bolted on as they are ready (or if you're really adventurous, as they are ready for beta testing). This way when the new engine comes out, or a new way of increasing the power or eficiency comes out for the next model year, you can have it bolted on today and for just a few dollars.

Its a value add program for a value add software. no one is forcing you to buy it, no one is going to lose their classic 69 (unless of course industry forces cause cars to start running on water or something and gas can no longer be found), and you can keep your 2015, and if you want you can bolt on 2016 parts to improve the car a bit at a time.

There are no plans to force anyone onto a subscription only plan.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/776289#Comment_776289

no one is forcing you to buy it, no one is going to lose their classic 69 (unless of course industry forces cause cars to start running on water or something and gas can no longer be found), and you can keep your 2015, and if you want you can bolt on 2016 parts to improve the car a bit at a time.

Yes, but that's the precise problem with software, isn't it? Operating systems change. As long as your old computer works, you can keep your old "car." However, if/when you are forced to buy new computers, with new operating systems, practically speaking you are forced into newer "cars." Hence, Logos (and other companies) quit supporting their old software. Keep using it if you want, but don't expect support for it. And the general plan is for you to upgrade. From the developer end of things, this is pretty much how it has to be.

There are no plans to force anyone onto a subscription only plan.

That may well be true with Logos. If so, they will be significantly different than a whole host of other companies, including Microsoft. Oh, and many of those companies started out their cloud services by saying that no one would be forced onto them. And, not all of them are/were lying. Things change, and technology changes.

However, I can say that Logos has, and will continue to have a desktop version. Bob has even said this at one point.

I don't know what precisely that Bob has said, or if he's committed to never, ever quit providing a software version that can be run offline, but that would be a bit surprising if he did. Logos is used by people (including me, occasionally) in places that there is no reliable internet connection, so I hope you're right. However, the vast majority of users have continual, fairly stable access. It is the direction things seem to be heading.

Have a great weekend.