[resolved] Q: Common attributes of Hebrew Main Verbs

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Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2015 11:35 PM

Hebrew grammarians, what are common attributes of main verbs (or verbs in a main clause) in Hebrew? I'm especially looking at the morphology of the verb with the idea of coming up with a visual filter.

Thanks

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 12:10 AM

Have you looked at https://ancienthebrewgrammar.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/cook-2002_bhvs_uwdiss.pdf THE BIBLICAL HEBREW VERBAL SYSTEM: A GRAMMATICALIZATION APPROACH by John A. Cook

Most relevant section: sorry it didn't paste in a very readable manner

3 A THEORY OF TENSE, ASPECT, AND MODALITY IN BH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 163

3.1 A U

NIVERSAL EVENT MODEL 163

3.1.1

The Basic Event Model 164

3.1.2

Situation Aspect and the Event Model 165

3.1.2.1

A Privative Oppositional Model 166

3.1.2.2

The Subinterval Property, (A)telicity, and Dynamicity 168

3.1.2.3

Situation Aspect and the Event Model 171

3.1.3

Viewpoint Aspect and the Event Model 173

3.1.3.1

The Perfective : Imperfective Opposition 174

3.1.3.2

Viewpoint Aspect, Situation Aspect, and (Un)boundedness 176

3.1.3.3

The Perfect and Progressive 180

3.1.4

Phasal Aspect and the Event Model 182

3.1.5

Tense and the Event Model 184

3.1.6

Modality 186

3.1.7

Summary 188

3.2 A G

RAMMATICALIZATION APPROACH 189

3.2.1

Synchrony, Diachrony, and Panchrony 191

3.2.2

A Grammaticalization Approach to Form-Meaning Asymmetries 194

3.2.3

Grammaticalization and Basic Meaning 198

3.3 A S

EMANTIC ANALYSIS OF THE BHVS 200

3.3.1

Stative and Dynamic in BH 201

3.3.2

BH as Aspect-Prominent 203

3.3.3

Qatal (including Weqatal) 206

3.3.3.1

Grammaticalization of Qatal 209

3.3.3.2

Indicative Meanings of Perfective Qatal 219

3.3.3.3

Modal Meanings of Perfective Qatal 223

3.3.4

Yiqtol, Wayyiqtol, and Deontics 232

3.3.4.1

Grammaticalization of Yiqtol 237

3.3.4.2

Imperfective Yiqtol 246

3.3.4.3

Jussive and the Deontic System 251

3.3.4.4

Past Tense Wayyiqtol 253

3.3.5

Qotel 262

3.4 C

ONCLUSIONS 268

vii

3.4.1

Grammaticalization of the Hebrew Verb 269

3.4.2

Semantics of the BHVS 270

E

XCURSUS: WORD ORDER IN BH 272

4 THE SEMANTICS OF DISCOURSE-PRAGMATICS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 275

4.1 T

HE PROBLEMS WITH DISCOURSE APPROACHES TO VERBS 275

4.2 S

OME ELEMENTS OF NARRATIVE STRUCTURE 279

4.2.1

Temporal Succession 280

4.2.2

Foreground-Background 285

4.2.3

The Relationship between Temporal Succession and Foreground 289

4.3 T

HE SEMANTICS OF DISCOURSE IN BH 292

4.3.1

Wayyiqtol in Narrative Discourse 293

4.3.1.1

Wayyiqtol and Temporal Succession 293

4.3.1.2

Wayyiqtol and Foreground 298

4.3.2

Weqatal and Non-Narrative Discourse 300

4.3.3

Summary 306

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Posts 3733
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 1:51 AM

If you go to the morph search tab and select a Hebrew morphology and start your search with @v (verb), you will see all the main morphological categories. Is that not suitable or are you looking for something else?

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 5:23 PM

Francis:

If you go to the morph search tab and select a Hebrew morphology and start your search with @v (verb), you will see all the main morphological categories. Is that not suitable or are you looking for something else?

This what I want to do for a visual filter. But I don't want it to show all the verbs, just (or more or less just) the main verbs. Now according to my understanding main verbs share a common set of features. For example certain moods never go with main verbs etc. But I have never studied this with Hebrew. So I thought maybe there is somebody that has an idea as to what STEM or TAM I had to choose.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 12:05 AM

It is not all that clear to me what you are trying to do. If you don't mind explaining it in more detail, it will help providing answers to your question.

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 2:30 AM

Thanks, Francis for being willing to help me with this.

What I'd like to do is to highlight the main verb in the OT by using a visual filter. Now the way I wanted to go about it is by selecting the right morphology. Not all verb forms can be main verbs and certain grammatical forms are primarily used with main verbs, although maybe not exclusively. For example Steven Runge in his Monday High Definition Series pointed out that participles cannot be main verbs. Also in English Auxiliary Verbs can not be main verbs. They usually carry a certain mood and can be ruled out that way etc. Now I have never studied the Hebrew Verb System and thought I might just ask whether there is somebody that has enough insights into this to tell me what grammatical form main verbs in Hebrew take.

I'm aware that this filter might give me more than just the main verbs. But it would be a starting point.

Posts 3733
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 3:57 AM

My Hebrew is a bit rusty and so I do not know how to answer you on this. Perhaps others will chime in.

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 6:00 AM

Schumitinu:
For example Steven Runge in his Monday High Definition Series pointed out that participles cannot be main verbs. A

Waltke O'connor 37.6?

Posts 2499
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 8:05 AM

David Knoll:

Schumitinu:
... participles cannot be main verbs.

There's a ton of exceptions for practically every rule in Biblical Hebrew. Do a Logos search for "participles" in Gesenius.

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 12:33 PM

Lee:

David Knoll:

Schumitinu:
... participles cannot be main verbs.

There's a ton of exceptions for practically every rule in Biblical Hebrew. Do a Logos search for "participles" in Gesenius.

I am not sure that this is an exception more like the rule itself.

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Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 3:57 PM

Lee:

There's a ton of exceptions for practically every rule in Biblical Hebrew. Do a Logos search for "participles" in Gesenius.

Good point. That's easy to forget, especially when reading a "dead" language. Too often, we are too slavishly or mechanically tied to our grammars and lexicons as if the biblical writers also were. They didn't have copy editors or grammars or lexicons, and the "rules" -- just like in any language -- were simultaneously developed along the way and and followed along the way.

This is important to keep in mind if we regard our Logos grammar searches as somehow being exhaustive in terms of what the writers could have written, or  authoritative in terms of what the language should have been.

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 18 2015 6:44 PM

Thanks guys for your input and insight. It looks like it might not be so cut and dry as I hoped it to be.

searching my library I came across these two comments. What is your take on it?

2.2.1. Qatal  (perfect, perfective, suffix conjugation [SC]) is the main verb form of predictive and procedural materials (analogous to wayyiqtol in narrative), where it is often future or imperatival.

2.2.3. Wayyiqtol  (imperfect plus waw-consecutive, preterite) is the main verb of narrative, used to list series of events. Events described by consecutive wayyiqtol tend to be logically or temporally consecutive, although wayyiqtol may refer to an earlier event (§2.2.3c); consecutive wayyiqtols may even overlap (verbal hendiadys; §2.3).

Hebrew Bible Insert: A student's Guide to the Syntax of Biblical Hebrew, p.29+31

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 19 2015 2:35 AM

Schumitinu:

2.2.1. Qatal  (perfect, perfective, suffix conjugation [SC]) is the main verb form of predictive and procedural materials (analogous to wayyiqtol in narrative), where it is often future or imperatival.

2.2.3. Wayyiqtol  (imperfect plus waw-consecutive, preterite) is the main verb of narrative, used to list series of events. Events described by consecutive wayyiqtol tend to be logically or temporally consecutive, although wayyiqtol may refer to an earlier event (§2.2.3c); consecutive wayyiqtols may even overlap (verbal hendiadys; §2.3).

The explanations are very short, so they could confuse rather than illuminate. For a fuller treatment, have a look at Dr. Levinsohn's materials on narrative and non-narrative discourse. Let me know if you need more references.

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Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 19 2015 3:46 AM

Lee:

The explanations are very short, so they could confuse rather than illuminate. For a fuller treatment, have a look at Dr. Levinsohn's materials on narrative and non-narrative discourse. Let me know if you need more references.

I'm familiar with Levinsohn's material. But I'm wondering whether we mix levels now. I'm simply looking at main verbs from a grammatical standpoint, not necessarily the foregrounded verbs on the storyline. But then again, it looks like it would take some more serious consideration and study for which I don't have the time right now.

Thanks anyway

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 19 2015 6:03 AM

I am not sure that there is a short answer to your question. What I did wonder about -- although I don't have time to look into it -- is whether syntax/clause type of searches could help you achieve the same thing; In other words, if you could look for the verbs in the main clauses. 

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 19 2015 6:18 PM

Yes, I was considering this already. Eli Evans has created a syntax search for main clauses in Hebrew here.

Posts 2499
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 21 2015 1:03 AM

Schumitinu:

I'm simply looking at main verbs from a grammatical standpoint,

I'm no expert, but I don't think the ancients thought in terms of that Procrustean bed. Hence it will not be so cut-and-dried.

Posts 47

Hebrew is not so streamlined as Greek. For example, the Qal verb is often used in narratives and is translated in English as past tense. In quotations, it may be translated as present tense--much depends on context. This is why there is also information about verbal aspect to consider.

To add more fuel to the fire, you have situations such as: the Imperative is used to give commands; but the negative of the Imperfect is used to give prohibitions. So in creating your filter, what are you looking for, only the verb states or also the negated verb states?

HTH.

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Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 25 2015 6:20 PM

I mark negation separately.

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