Any Resources More Useful On Paper?

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Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 25 2010 9:43 AM

Logos is by far my most important Bible Study resource.  But I have some questions for all of you.

Are there any resources - or types of resources - that are more useful in book format than in an electronic format?  Is electronic format always the better tool?  What are the advantages of each?

What type of electronic resources would you make a priority in purchasing?

 

Are all commentaries more useful in electronic format?  Why or why not?

What about books on theology?  What about devotional books?  What about biography?

 

Obviously, electronic resources have many advantages.  The speed with which you can access information in electronic format is a major advantage.  So is the ability to search so many resources at once.

Also the ability to search all the works of Wesley, Calvin, Spurgeon, or Luther is a big advantage of the electronic format.

The ability to cut and paste into sermons and notes is always a big advantage of the electronic version.

Original language tools and lexicons are much handier to access in the electronic form.

 

Again, are there any resources that you would prefer to have in book (paper) form?  Why? 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:34 AM

Michael, I really like purchasing and using almost everything better in an electronic format, instead of paper. The only exception, for some odd reason, is some of my devotional material, although Logos 4 is helping me to even buck that trend. Perhaps the greatest advantage of using the electronic versions for me is the portability of the resources. I live in Delaware, work in Pennsylvania and am a native of Michigan, where my entire family resides. So, to put it bluntly, I'm on the go a lot. Not having to tote a ton of books makes a huge difference for me. Also, being able to integrate and access the materials through Logos is invaluable.

Christina

iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM

 

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:38 AM

Michael, I not buying much of a theological nature on paper any more, even though I dislike using my laptop as an e-reader. I am hoping that the soon to be announced apple tablet will take me completely away from paper, but as it stands, most items in the collection labeled monographs are of limited usefulness to me.

 

 

Posts 584
Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:38 AM

I think this is really an individual preference. I know some people who do just about everything on their computer and others who do almost none. For me, I do research on my computer but just about all of my creative thinking has to be on paper. Since that is the case, I'll never give up my large library of books which I have collected over the past 20-25 years. When I'm writing a paper or sermon, I do better with the books spread out on a large table--going back and forth from computer to paper breaks my workflow. However, for research I utilize L4 and EBSCOHost continually. I make notes, jot down thoughts, etc. I usually wind up printing these out for the actual writing process. L4 makes my research process easier--it doesn't help that much with the creative side.

Because of that, my priority for L4 resources are those which are geared toward research. I want my lexicons and other original language tools in L4. Same for technical and exegetical commentaries as well as key background info. I find little value in having devotional material or popular style commentaries in L4.

πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε

Posts 3747
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 12:40 PM

Michael Childs:
types of resources - that are more useful in book format than in an electronic format?

YMMV, but I find devotional resources to be more useful in paper. Paper just isn't as intrusive (for me) as is the computer...

Anything research, on the other hand, I find to be MUCH more useful as e-resources.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
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Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 6:01 PM

I think that seems to be a consensus.  I agree about devotionals. 

Not long ago I would have said that I preferred a really technical commentary in a book.  Somehow it seemed easier to concentrate on the paper in my hand than the computer screen.  However, Logos 4 has changed my mind.  Being able to "float a window" makes it very easy to focus on even the most technical commentary.

 

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1712
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 9:40 PM

Michael Childs:
Are there any resources - or types of resources - that are more useful in book format than in an electronic format?
Is electronic format always the better tool?  What are the advantages of each?

Reference material is clearly better in electronic format (quick and easy to find the relevant stuff.)

I've now started reading books in Logos 4 as well. I can highlight, make notes, and save a layout to resume where I left off, so it's at least as good as paper.

The laptop goes everywhere except the loo: I still have paper books there (currently NT Wright's For Everyone commentary.)

Michael Childs:
What type of electronic resources would you make a priority in purchasing?

As well as the translations and books in the base packages, I've added the reference books I need: a good Bible dictionary (ISBE), commentary sets (WBC, BST, Tyndale), and other specific tools (N T Wright pre-pub, Erickson, ...)

Michael Childs:
Are all commentaries more useful in electronic format?  Why or why not?

Yes: Quick and easy to search, to recall (layouts.) Copy'n'paste into messages/study notes. Portable: you gonna try taking the entire WBC set with you on a 'plane? :-)

Michael Childs:
What about books on theology?  What about devotional books?  What about biography?

Theology definitely. You can find that article on Ebionites (whatever), copy'n'paste, compare, ...

Devotional less so, though I did buy the Max Lucado library so I could listen to the audio (MP3) in the car and then find the quotable parts in Logos.

Posts 19317
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:29 PM

I'll echo what most people have said. I still prefer paper for devotional books and other books that I'd read in bed (fiction/novels -- not too many of those in Logos format currently, but Pilgrim's Progress comes to mind; I'd rather reread that in a comfy chair away from the computer), but digital for most everything else Logos has. I'd also prefer paper for books that, though I wouldn't classify them as "devotional" per se, need to be read slowly and savored. Books of spiritual theology (like the writings of Henri Nouwen) would fall into this category. I'm sure I'd buy a Nouwen collection if it were available in Logos format so I could search to see what Nouwen had said about XYZ. But Nouwen isn't generally the kind of author I look to for information, rather I read him slowly, bit by bit, for spiritual transformation. Since I already spend a huge amount of time in front of the screen, and do read a lot of material on the computer, I hope I never get so "converted" to reading electronic books that I'd do this sort of reading online. I need to give my eyes a rest and take a technology sabbath now and then.

Posts 99
john joyce | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 11:26 PM

I guess it sometimes depends on circumstances, I have to use whatever I can depending what the wife and 2 kids will allow me. I haven't really got logos on tap yet. Also because I am relatively new to logosI am a bit like a kid in a candy store and tend to flit around. If you are sitting at a table with a book you are generally more disciplined. Again as a Catholic Logos doesn't yet have all I need although useful for research.

I have a 1950s bible and electronic format will never replace that! The feel, smell and joy of holding an old book is um, err heavenBig Smile

Also can't believe I will ever read electronically on the tube, books are easier and only so much assault the eyes can take with electronic gadgets.

One thing I have started doing is using a book to go through and mark up in logos though.

John

Posts 769
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 1:45 AM

I hear time and time again "I can't read on the computer." I used to be that way myself. Over this past year I found several of the textbooks I needed for seminary in Logos. I forced myself to read these on the computer and it was not long, maybe a couple of weeks, before I not only was used to it, but started to love reading on the computer. The ability to have it autoscroll is just marvelous. I find myself not paying attention to where I am in a book and before I know it I am done with the assigned reading. I now read all I can in Logos 4.

Anonymous | | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 3:05 AM

For me paper wins over electronic every time. The only reason I use Logos and other Bible software is to save me lugging bags of books to classes. Outside of that my first point of call is my bookshelf. There's nothing that can surpass holding a physical title in my hands and being able to sift through its pages. This may be old fashioned, but then again, I still use film for my photography as well.

My name is Adam. I work at Faithlife with the software teams responsible for the Logos desktop and web apps.

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

Posts 87
Ray D | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 5:35 AM

I love paper and have had a difficult time reading from my computer in the past. Get this, I was in IT for 2 decades before being ordained. I am slowly finding it easier to read on my laptop. What I found to be helpful is to hide all the desktop items except for the floating panel that I want to read. I center the panel in the middle of my screen. I have a nice soft grey (looks darker in image) background on my desktop. That way I can focus on the floating panel as I would a paper book with no screen distraction. I believe that's what was making it so hard for me to read. Too much to catch my eye on a cluttered desktop.

Here's a snapshot of what I end up with.

EDIT: this is my preferred method when I am planning to sit down and read one resource for an extended period of time. When doing research I have lots of resources open at once.

Posts 3316
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 5:50 AM

I use to think some items were better in paper- but have long since made the transition. I do still have books- alot- many duplicate resource of Logos resources so I can take a book along for reading to keep up.

I have found it easier for me to setup a layout window, i.e. "thelogy reading, Devotional reading, Pastoral Reading, etc"

This way I can utilize my bible, or search when needed. It seems natural at times to focus on certain books for a time and this has been an easy way to keep it sorted for myself.

 

Posts 184
lostlogik | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:21 AM

I'm a techno geek and try and do everything electronically. I've tried various different study tools on the PC before Logos and am now very happy. Especially with the iPhone app, though that still needs a lot of works. However even devotionals I'm reading on the iPhone, just because it's always with me and I can wip it out in seconds. (and I'll stick my hands up and say I have OliveTree's BibleReader as well, which is a very polished app with some good resources).

Posts 118
Andrew Chuter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:29 AM

I would echo sentiment of some others i.e. didn't at one time like reading from computer screen but now prefer it - change for me came with purchase of 17'' MacBook plus 24'' cinema screen. The clarity of the image/font and the ability to alter font/ font size/ window width/ brightness etc is very helpful to optimise readibility - particularly as my eye-sight is not brilliant. In addition using power-lookup and mouse for verse look up is advantagous. I tend to study using cinema screen at a desk and read devotionally using lap-top in an easy chair.

                                                          Andrew

Posts 255
Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:36 AM

I would try and get your most important resources in paper back as well.  When sitting with someone, it simply is easier to flip open the book (no video card, CPU, RAM, or other components to be concerned with).

This is just good ministry prep.

Posts 3316
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2010 5:32 AM

Pat Flanakin:

I would try and get your most important resources in paper back as well.  When sitting with someone, it simply is easier to flip open the book (no video card, CPU, RAM, or other components to be concerned with).

This is just good ministry prep.

 

I agree here- we have to remember we are in the people ministry.

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2010 8:34 AM

My wife and I moved into a 36 foot motorhome about 3 years ago, the two years before that I had already started converting all of my paper books to electronic.  I have been able to learn so much more since I did this, that it is hard to believe.  Once I learned how to use electronic resources I have had no desire to ever go back to paper resources.  I gave a huge library away to a local fellowship and to friends.  I have kept bibles, lexicons and a few other resources, in case I do not have power, but I never use them.

I am in my 50's, and God has me teaching others how to study the scriptures with bible software and planting churches. I only read paper books when someone gives me one to read and I no longer miss them, although I did for a couple of years, but I learned they slowed down my ability to study and retain good notes of what I had studied.

I first started working with the scriptures because of the youth in the fellowship I attended.  I discovered, many kids that would never touch a paper bible would be all over a bible that was on a computer.  Thank God for showing me this. 

At this point in time I use computers with folks of all ages.  I have discovered that even elderly folk love a netbook or a small light weight lap top.  And they love it when you show them how to adjust the words to a size that they can read!!!  That is really hard to do with paper books!

So while other have stated it is good ministry to not use a computer with folks, I have found it to be the exact opposite.

One huge advantage of using electronic resources is the ability to take notes and have your resources organized in a form that is useful to you and others, it allows me to share hours and hours of research with others in a matter of minutes and they can see the actual resources.  And I don't have to keep producing the same research over and over again.  Plus it becomes easy to add additional information to a topic or verse.

Of course this ability is a weak link in Logos, so I actually copy information from Logos and place it in some of my other programs to make the information more useful to me and so I don't have to worry about trying to arrange material in Logos.  I am hoping that some day Logos will jump their notes feature up to the level of other programs, if they do that and allow us to easily make our own public domain books I will have no need for other programs!

This whole electonic book thing has really helped me to find things that I knew I had seen, but could not remember where the information is at, note files are ahuge part ot this, people actually think I am a lot smarter then I am, now! 

They are blown away when I show them that they can do the same thing and that you don't need to be real smart or have a great memory to do it. 

It is very rewarding to hear people sa y they had thought I was just super smart, and that they could never know the things I know because they were not that smart, but now they see that I am not as smart as they thought I was, and that they can do the same things I am doing!!!

No paper books for me, I can hardly believe I just said that.

In Christ,

Jim

Posts 8
Tom Rosenow | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2010 11:54 AM

A quick thought for anyone who does extended reading in one book in Logos - F11 is your friend.  The automatic 'reading mode' / fullscreen works wonders.

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