Best book on Evolution and Creation?

Page 1 of 3 (48 items) 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 47 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 5 2015 1:56 PM

So here's the deal: I am looking for a quality book to give me an overview of where the discussion is at. I need this to catch up with the issue (that I have shelved for a while) and help someone else deal with these questions. This much for the general need.

Now for the particulars. What I DONT want is something of the Answers in Genesis books type that basically say that there are no challenging questions to face and that everything is a hoax, dinosaurs skeletons are patchworks made of cows bones, all dating methods are totally unreliable, etc. In sum, while I am aware of the militantism and pseudo-science that can characterize some evolutionists, I don't want the same from a creationist standpoint. 

Next, I don't want stuff like Lee Strobel's the Case for a Creator. It's nice and interesting but non-scientists cannot evaluate whether what is said is as reliable and not fallacious as they make it to be and it cannot be accepted only because it is said by someone who says it in defense of the faith. In any case, it is of limited use because some of this stuff is always being debated ad nauseum even by fellow scientists and ultimately does not prove anything one way or the other. In other words, I am not interested in elaborate "scientific" arguments such as the cosmological constant. 

Third, I don't want pragmatic, uncritical exegesis of the kind: I went to the dinosaur museum and was convinced, the earth must be older. Therefore days in Genesis must really be eons, argued through far-fetched exegesis (backed by academic credentials) and resting on broadstrokes arguments, insufficiently justified arguments. (I don't want Job's friends who feel they have to twist the truth to defend God and mount up elaborate arguments to do so). 

WHAT I DO WANT is intelligent, careful exegesis of the pertinent biblical material that is made to relate to the questions raised by evolutionists and willing to admit, when applicable, what we don't know or can't settle. I want something informed, informative, sensible and solid exegetically.

So, does this book exist and is available in Logos? If so, I'd appreciate a pointer. Thanks in advance!

NB: please no debate, correction, or unsollicited advice. I just want to know if there is a resource that fits the bill of what I am describing.

Posts 1513
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 2:24 PM

I'd suggest John Walton's books on Genesis 1 as Ancient Cosmology, but only the Eerdman's volume is available alone. The other is The Lost World of Genesis 1, available only in an IVP package. https://www.logos.com/product/40906/ivp-old-testament-studies-collection

Also not in Logos, Mark S. Smith's book on Genesis 1

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 1513
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 2:27 PM

This also can be terribly useful, as a history of ideas and interpretation. 

This too, but it's not out yet. I have lots more where those came from, as I have a book under contract of my own, addressing Genesis 1 in its ancient Near Eastern context, which implicitly argues against modern YEC/Concordist views.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 468
Anon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 2:43 PM

Francis, I see Ben has already mention John Walton's writings... you can check here at Amazon for more info.  Also, just today, released individually in another software platform.

 

Posts 484
Travis Walter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 3:06 PM

If thats what you really think about AIG, then I challenge you to actually read and watch some of their programs. 

Saying what you said about them is simply not true.

Posts 6683
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 3:09 PM

See if this helps. http://grisda.org/resources/faith-and-science-papers/ It would be good if we could get these in Logos.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 30137
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 3:28 PM

Travis Walter:

If thats what you really think about AIG, then I challenge you to actually read and watch some of their programs. 

Saying what you said about them is simply not true.

Travis, don't assume Francis doesn't know the AIG material; rather, remember that this is not the place to discuss theology and therefore not the place to label what the OP posted as "not true" except, perhaps, on a factual point such as correcting a year, title or author reference. If you wish to discuss the truth or falsity of the AIG position, take it to ChristianDiscourse.

Note: I have read their material as my father was at one time a supporter but became a strong critic.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19040
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 3:37 PM

Ben:
This also can be terribly useful, as a history of ideas and interpretation. 

I would also second that book by Ronald Numbers. It's a little bit dated now, as it doesn't have some of the current players like intelligent design, the Discovery Institute and William Dembski, etc., nor another important voice, Denis Lamoureux. But it certainly is useful, if not essential, background for how the conversation got to where it is now.

Posts 2401
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 3:47 PM

I would highly recommend John Clayton, former atheist and now retired science teacher.  I've heard him speak a number of times and have most of his material.   

www.doesgodexist.org

Posts 176
Rob | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 4:23 PM

I'd point you also to John Walton, who provides a great approach to the issue but he himself admits he is not educated in the physical sciences. - even so, his material can not be ignored.

And Ron Numbers book provides a background history of the issues - worthwhile.

A simple primer to the debates, and one that directly confronts divisive issues in a polite manner is 'Origins, Christian Perspectives on Creation, Evolution and Intelligent Design' by Deborah and Loren Haarsma.

Another perspective (that of progressive creationism) is provided by physicist Hugh Ross; many of his books are offered by FaithLife.

Most, if not all of the problems we encounter in the debate with science and theology lie with improper hermeneutics - one of my favorites and one that approaches the creation/evolution debates tangentially is Foundations of Contemporary Interpretation . In it, Vern S. Poythress contributes a wonderful essay called, "Science and Hermeneutics" - the whole book is foundational to the topic and will not disappoint you.

I was introduced to the issue through Bernard Ramm's book, A Christian View of Science and Scripture (1956), quite dated but still a favorite of mine.

Posts 498
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 4:25 PM

I've followed the discussion actively for about a decade. Walton is taking it in a really good direction, so he's a good one to read. Many other evangelical scholars are working on it too.

The best synthesis I've heard so far comes from Denis O. Lamoureux. This guy earned two PhDs for the express purpose of working on the creation/evolution problem. One in biology and the other in theology. The man is dedicated! It's called "Evolutionary Creation". The book is pricey, but very much worth it. He has many articles and videos online outlining his positions too, if you'd rather check those out first.
Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 4:38 PM

Greg Masone:
This guy earned two PhDs for the express purpose of working on the creation/evolution problem. One in biology and the other in theology. The man is dedicated!

I Googled him and saw on Wikipedia (which we all know is ALWAYS reliable Confused) that he also had a doctoral degree in dentistry. Have to agree that qualifies him as dedicated! 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lamoureux 

Posts 30137
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:05 PM

For a broad perspective:

  • Tielhard de Chardin
  • John Haught
  • Ilio Delio

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 560
Glenn Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:26 PM

If you want to see an Old Earth Creationist model (ie they accept Big Bang cosmology, etc but don't accept large scale evolution) then you might want to check out Logos material from Reason to Believe:

https://www.logos.com/product/28101/reasons-to-believe-collection

I actually lean more towards C John Collins approach:

http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-1-4-Linguistic-Theological-Commentary/dp/0875526195

http://www.amazon.com/Did-Adam-Eve-Really-Exist/dp/1433524252

Note: My scientific background is in Mathematics, so whilst I did study Microbiology and Organic Chemistry at Uni, I don't claim any expertise when it comes to the Biological Sciences.

Pastor Glenn Crouch
St Paul's Lutheran Church
Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Western Australia

Posts 1513
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:28 PM

One more. I'm not Evangelical, but I found this (Reading Genesis 1-2: An Evangelical Discussion) to be a pretty fantastic discussion, with participants across the spectrum. John Walton, Averbeck, Collins, Longmann, and Beall.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 790
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:28 PM

Ben:

I'd suggest John Walton's books on Genesis 1 as Ancient Cosmology, but only the Eerdman's volume is available alone. The other is The Lost World of Genesis 1, available only in an IVP package. https://www.logos.com/product/40906/ivp-old-testament-studies-collection

Also not in Logos, Mark S. Smith's book on Genesis 1

Active link https://www.logos.com/product/40906C/ivp-old-testament-studies-collection

Also you might be interested in Three Views on Creation and Evolution either at amazon separately  - Three Views on Creation and Evolution or as part of the Zondervan Counterpoints Upgrade collection on prepub here - https://www.logos.com/product/50304/zondervan-counterpoints-series-upgrade-ii#009

Posts 498
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:52 PM

Matthew:
I Googled him and saw on Wikipedia (which we all know is ALWAYS reliable Confused) that he also had a doctoral degree in dentistry. Have to agree that qualifies him as dedicated! 

Actually, if I remember correctly, a good part of his research for his PhD in biology focused on the evolutionary development of teeth in animals.

But yeah, he does have a Phd in dentistry too. So three doctorates!

Usually in my readings I'd find a theologian that knew his stuff...but messed up the science badly. Other times, you get scientists that really know their science...but suck at theology. Lamoureux is a huge exception to this, and it certainly shows in the knowledge and synthesis he brings to the table. I can not recommend this book highly enough for anyone interested in this subject. His discussion of the ancient near eastern worldview within Genesis 1-11 is a close second, if not equal to, John Walton's.

Here are a few lectures he's given on the subject that can be listened to online: http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/wl.html

They broadly follow his 500 page book.

Posts 6683
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 6:08 PM

Greg Masone:
Usually in my readings I'd find a theologian that knew his stuff...but messed up the science badly. Other times, you get scientists that really know their science...but suck at theology.

The link I posted above has articles in Journals that deal with both subjects. For theological articles on Genesis you have to look at Andrews University Seminary Studies. Few Seminaries study the matter of creation like Seventh-day Adventist. Auss.info  Run a search on your library for this Journal.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 6683
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 6:19 PM

Andrews University Seminary Studies may be coming to Logos. https://community.logos.com/forums/p/104156/722026.aspx#722026 

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 5002
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 9:25 PM

As succinctly as I can put it, you might also consider the possibility that YHWH doesn't expect or want you to waste time on a subject He didn't give any command to examine. The whole subject might be a deliberate red herring.

Page 1 of 3 (48 items) 1 2 3 Next > | RSS