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This post has 19 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 83
John Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 13 2015 6:10 AM

As a faithful Logos customer, I appreciate all that Logos has done and is doing to work with the SDA church in getting more resources into the best Bible software on the planet. However, with the release of SDA Platinum I started doing some comparison's with other Platinum packages available on Logos. Every good customer always does their research to make sure that they are getting the best deal on the market, right?

Well from what my findings are, is that it looks like Logos SDA Platinum (valued at $22,433) & Reformed Platinum ($22,465) are almost of equal value (as far as resource value), but worth almost $900 less than Standard ($23,302) and $1,300 less than Anglican Platinum ($23,750) about $800 less than Baptist Platinum ($23,179).

The reason why I did this research is that I obviously want the best deal, but I do prefer to have an SDA package that has as many SDA resources as possible. However, I noticed that the SDA Platinum didn't include many Adventist resources that are on pre-pub, which would greatly add to the worth of the SDA Platinum Collection, to help level out the disparity of worth compared to other packages. I don't want this to sound like I'm whining but I want to give my constructive criticism on this matter. How does Logos put packages together, it seems like it's typically (from my perspective) put together by the total worth of the resources in the package and not on the amount of resources. You could have a package with thousands of resources but it may not be as valuable of a package as a resource that has higher quality resources.

Here are some Adventist Resources I would love to see included in the SDA Platinum package and it would help bring it up to the same worth as many other Platinum packages:


Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 6:34 AM

I don't take this as a complaint but I take it as a great question and nice observation.  I would've thought the BRI's would have been in platinum along with many other titles you have on here. 

I'm definitely going to follow this thread.  You've peaked my interest.

Posts 6710
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 6:46 AM

It could be due to lisencing factors. Look how long it took to get the commentary in an sda Base Package.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 164
Reimar Vetne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 7:22 AM

John Miller, thanks for asking a good question, and for making that useful list of SDA pre-pubs. Martin is the only one who can answer this question, but I guess a big part of the answer has to do with timing. Logos wants SDA Gold and Platinum to be released before the GC session in July, and a lot of the pre-pubs you listed will simply not be ready for downloading at that time. Of course Logos is able to include resources in a base package that are not published yet, and they have done so on occasion, but it makes for impatient customers. "I already paid for these resources, so when will I receive them!"

When a lot more Adventist material is published, at the time of the Logos 7 reconfiguration of packages, I believe we will see more resources included.

Posts 1962
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 9:02 AM

To think of it, you are right. SDA Platinum doesn't have top notch resources. Or perhaps all that are in Platinum should've been included in Gold instead. No need to call it Platinum when those resources in Platinum can still be included in Gold.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 9:16 AM

I am excited about these new SDA Base packages! I will admit, though, that I too was hoping for a bit more SDA-specific resources as mentioned (BRI, Ministry Magazine, etc.) Oh yeah, also the Sabbath School Quarterlies

I am curious to hear the explanation. I'm sure there's some reason for this.

Posts 204
David Salazar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 9:48 AM

shouldn't gold status bar be higher than platinum?  Basically ever order for Platinum is an order of gold right (since it includes same content only more).

Posts 544
LogosEmployee
Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 9:51 AM

Thanks for your interest, everyone. I'll be glad to respond to everyone after a big meeting this morning.

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 10:49 AM

John Miller:
Well from what my findings are, is that it looks like Logos SDA Platinum (valued at $22,433) & Reformed Platinum ($22,465) are almost of equal value (as far as resource value), but worth almost $900 less than Standard ($23,302) and $1,300 less than Anglican Platinum ($23,750) about $800 less than Baptist Platinum ($23,179

When the base packages where first released I compared the values of all the base packages, and saw there was a small difference between the different strands. But the differences are fairly small, just a few tenths of a percentage point.

For example, at the Platinum level the 'best' value package is Anglican, which offers a 90.95% discount over the individual prices. The 'worst' value is Lutheran which offers a 90.31% discount. There's really very little difference.

In practice, I would imagine that not all resources in the package are being discounted by 90%. Perhaps some less popular resources are being discounted by 95% or even more. Other popular resources are perhaps discounted by 80-85% - but on average it's 90%. The result is that a lot of the base packages are "filler" - less popular resources that publishers are willing to accept a return of a few cents on the dollar. 

But of course, if publishers know people are willing to pa $100 for a resource, why should they include it in a base package and only get $10? They have to be willing to sell their resources at that discount. They have to accept a large increase in volume, but a large reduction in profit margin. If they're not, then the resources can't be included. The Lutheran packages, for example, don't include the works of Luther!

Posts 1033
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 11:13 AM

The SDA packages seem to have very little SDA specific content, I could buy Platinum for $66 as an upgrade from Silver, and I actually try to avoid SDA specififc resources unless they are very cheap so I have not been buying SDA content seperately.

Posts 5100
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 11:49 AM

As the SDA market grows and more SDA resources enter Faithlife's library, the SDA base packages will be more tailored to SDA customers. The same thing happened with Verbum.

Posts 544
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Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 5:50 PM

 

Good questions and observations, for which there are good answers. (Sorry I couldn’t get back with you all earlier—meetings throughout the day with the launch of these packages plus the GC Session/NAD pastors’ convention coming up.)

First, be assured we pushed as hard as we could to get in as much as possible.

SDA processing costs are far higher per unit sold than for larger denominations, thanks to our smaller market. On John’s well-crafted list, many desirable items have languished in pre-pub or community pricing because we lack hundreds of thousands of dollars in production support from our small (but growing!) market.

Further, we’ve had to start from scratch in processing denominational titles, whereas most other lines of business have digital-ready files in great shape from legacy publishers requiring far less processing expense to get into the Logos system.

For example, Hans K. LaRondelle Lifeworks-Part 2 came as a million words of raw data that he left behind on two laptops. Curating and processing everything was excruciating, time-consuming and thus expensive. But the end result is a vintage, unique product that anyone who sat in HKL’s seminar classes will treasure, I believe.

The archives of the Journal of Adventist Theological Society also was hugely expensive for our small market. I tried hard to get the Andrews University Seminary Studies, but just couldn’t get that done yet.

And then there are licensing complexities. Titles you and I want in these packages are often simply not available for various reasons, many of them committee-driven. I am so thankful we were finally able to get the SDA Bible Commentary into Gold and Platinum.

The bottom line: everything in these base packages was quantified in huge spreadsheets down to the hundredth of a percent. What you have is the result of a grueling process that has yielded what I believe to be a terrific value, given our small market.

Buy it if you think it’s worth it! 

Posts 501
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 6:21 PM

Thanks to all that worked on this. In my mind I thought you used a magic wand or fantasy sports auto pick routine and it is was all quite easy. Sounds like I was wrong and you are all to be congratulated on a fine job. So now you get to work on Diamond maybe?

Posts 57
Martin H Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 10:17 PM

Actually Platinum is pre-selling so well that SDA Diamond is something to consider on down the road.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 15 2015 5:21 AM

Martin Weber:

SDA processing costs are far higher per unit sold than for larger denominations, thanks to our smaller market. On John’s well-crafted list, many desirable items have languished in pre-pub or community pricing because we lack hundreds of thousands of dollars in production support from our small (but growing!) market.

Thanks for the explanation, Martin. I knew you'd have a good one for us. :) I am very thankful for all you are doing! I am really hoping that Logos is going to have strong representation at the NAD Called meeting this summer and have a real competitive strategy to entice every NAD Pastor to sign up with a Logos base package! Maybe run a special discount with a deadline only for them or something so that they will be more likely to jump on it. And I'm praying for the deal with the seminary to pull through! Just think, if all our NAD Pastors realized the value of Logos and jumped on board, and if all the students that come through the seminary jump on board with Logos, that would increase our SDA market real quick! Then our SDA pre-pubs would run to production real quick! :)

I hope that with these new additions to our SDA market, the influx of SDA Pastors using Logos will swell and eventually the Diamond and Portfolio packages will be saturated with a lot more SDA-specific resources and at an even better value than these current packages. In the meantime, I am still very thankful for what we have and where we are at now. Certainly we've come a long way in a short amount of time, thanks to the Lord and thanks to you, Martin! :)

Also, I wonder if there's a way to help conferences in the SDA church heavily subsidize or even gift Logos to their pastors. It's such an incredible resource I would just like to see it in the hands of every SDA pastor with training on how to make the most of it! Just think of how the quality of what's coming from our pulpits would increase dramatically in many places. I'm not sure that it's a realistic hope, but I hope that someday our church and/or seminary will see the value of Logos like Dallas Theological Seminary and give all their pastors Logos base packages to equip them for the ministry.

Check it out, DTS leading the way: https://youtu.be/kj49e2LJqIk

Dallas Theological Seminary:

DTS has partnered with Logos Bible Software to offer $14,000 worth of biblical and theological resources to DTS students for free*. Dallas Theological Seminary is committed to training students to study all 66 books of the Bible equipping them to Teach Truth and Love Well.

Posts 6710
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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 15 2015 6:21 AM

I like your vision Tim. Hope to see you in Austin.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 544
LogosEmployee
Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 15 2015 9:40 AM

Indeed, brother! Faithlife/Logos will have a fabulous representation at CALLED. We are a Platinum sponsor and have a stage presentation, workshops and a great booth in a prime location. We will also have a banner and multiple other manifestations. 

See you all there!

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 17 2015 10:47 AM

Lynden Williams:

I like your vision Tim. Hope to see you in Austin.

Thanks brother, I really wish I could go but alas I will not be able to due to other important commitments I already made during that time.

I hope it is a blessing to you and all those who attend, you'll have to give us the report! :)

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 17 2015 10:51 AM

Martin Weber:

Indeed, brother! Faithlife/Logos will have a fabulous representation at CALLED. We are a Platinum sponsor and have a stage presentation, workshops and a great booth in a prime location. We will also have a banner and multiple other manifestations. 

See you all there!

This is very exciting news, Martin! Although I am not able to personally attend, I will be praying that many pastors get signed up for Logos! ;)

Martin, I have a question for you. For those of us who have student discounts, we qualify for 20% discount on base packages, as long as they are not on pre-pub. Wouldn't it be better for us to wait for these new packages to go into production before purchasing so that we can get 20% instead of only 15%?

Posts 544
LogosEmployee
Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 18 2015 8:27 AM

Logos sales would know how best to advise you, Tim. They know all the nuances and will work hard to get everybody the best deal possible. They are my Christian friends and I trust them to take care of my SDA family. Here's their direct line: 1-888-875-9491.

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