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Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 13 2015 7:52 AM

The #2 most requested feature on the Logos Mobile UserVoice System is PBB Sync, and has been very high on the list for a very very long time. On the UserVoice Suggestion for this request, a Faithlife employee marked it as "Under Review" over a year ago, with the comment:

Kevin Byford:

PBB Sync for Desktop is in progress, the feasibility of PBB Sync to mobile will be examined after that is completed.

I don't mean to be annoying, but I was just wondering if there is any news on the progress of this yet? PBB Sync for Desktop seems to be fully up and running now and has been ever since the release of Logos 6. If an update could be provided on how the "examining of the feasibility of PBB sync to mobile" is coming along now that the desktop version is complete and now that it's over a year down the road since it's been "under review", that would be much appreciated! I have great plans to use this feature and I know quite a few others who are holding their breath for this too.

I am very appreciative for the other features that Faithlife has implemented over the last year in the mobile apps, but shouldn't there be a prioritizing of features based on what the customers actually want? If not, what is the point of the UserVoice system? Just wondering. Smile

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 10:01 AM

Tim Taylor:
PBB Sync for Desktop seems to be fully up and running now and has been ever since the release of Logos 6

One point of contention on this statement -  because there is a size limitation on the compiled PBB files that will sync, I don't use it. Here is why - I have for years had my own way of syncing since Logos didn't provide one. On the laptop I do PB work on, I use Beyond Control to quickly sync the compiled PBs in my local installation with a DropBox folder. Then I have a button on my Verbum install ribbon at the top to do a Scan of the local Dropbox folder. That way, I build, BC syncs to Dropbox, click a button to Scan, and the PB comes in and everything is in sync - I don't have to move source files around and use the cumbersome panel to find and compile the PB.

Back to the size limitation - because it exists, I cannot get rid of my existing mechanism. Now it makes no sense to sync in TWO ways, so the fact that arbitrarily Logos doesn't support sync of ALL PBs, then this is a feature I cannot use. I wish this would change, as it can't be that much extra space considering all the data they sync now, and I am sure they know a fairly small number of people use PBs which is why it took forever to get the support it has today. If anyone at Logos/FL used PBs on multiple computers a lot they would see how tedious it is.

One final point - management of the files uploaded is also non-existent. If you upload a file and want to delete it off the servers, you can't. If you want any kind of better UI to select, compile, sort by dates, etc., which is more important when you have 300+ PBs, you can't.

So I understand your point Tim, I Just wanted to not lose sight of the fact the desktop implementation is rudimentary at best. But we move on to new features instead of completing this one. I suspect FL makes a lot of decisions based on its metrics of how much a feature is used, I wonder if they haven't lost perspective in the fact that maybe a feature isn't used by many because it's too difficult/cumbersome to use - if they finished the implementation it might gain greater acceptance?

Posts 978
LogosEmployee
Dave Dunkin (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 12:23 PM

We don't have news on PBB sync on mobile. There are some complexities with scale (the total number of PBBs in the system) and differences between how the mobile and desktop apps handle a library.

We do consider UserVoice when prioritizing features, but it's one factor among several. Other factors include cost, technical feasibility, and number of users affected. Your feedback on UserVoice is the biggest factor in implementing prayer list support, which is available now in the Faithlife Groups app and is planned for the Bible app in an upcoming release.

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 12:16 PM

Thanks Dave for the update.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2015 7:02 PM

Dave Dunkin (Faithlife):

We don't have news on PBB sync on mobile. There are some complexities with scale (the total number of PBBs in the system) and differences between how the mobile and desktop apps handle a library.

We do consider UserVoice when prioritizing features, but it's one factor among several. Other factors include cost, technical feasibility, and number of users affected. Your feedback on UserVoice is the biggest factor in implementing prayer list support, which is available now in the Faithlife Groups app and is planned for the Bible app in an upcoming release.

Yes Dave, thank you for the update (sorry for the delayed response).

Now that we're going on 8 months later, is there any new update yet on this? I'm beginning a new full time pastoral job and this feature alone would be a huge asset to my ministry. Thanks in advance for the feedback. I appreciate it.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2015 7:39 PM

We have not made any specific change of plans, but are in internal discussions about how to move ahead (and when).

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 6:20 AM

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):

We have not made any specific change of plans, but are in internal discussions about how to move ahead (and when).

Ok, thanks for the update. With all due respect, after waiting 3.5 years (see link), and with it now the #1 most requested unimplemented feature, I was hoping for a little bit more of an update than "we're still talking about it..."

Perhaps another FL employee can provide a more thorough response? It would be much appreciated! :) I understand companies like to keep their customers in suspense, but it gets a little hard to keep holding your breath for a feature after so many years without passing out if you know what I mean. ;P lol. A little bit more of a progress update than just "we're talking about it still" would give more hope I guess, if possible. That's all I'm asking for. :)

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 10:35 AM

I appreciate your frustration I feel the same with better offline functionality. As for being the most requested that is true, but is it easy to do? Without a dropbox sync or some such thing it would be hard to implement. Also is there any way to integrate the files without having a more robust offline capabilities, unless you have them as part of the Logos cloud somehow. I have in personal books a few Biblical commentaries and they could not be effectively used without having the passage guide draw them off the device since personal books would not be in the cloud. I do not know what the answer is, I do remember it once said that development on the mobile device is lower priority because it is not a for sale product, although that makes little sense since technically FL engines are always free. I do not wish to seem like a pessimist FL has brought us useful mobile apps that are improving, sometimes it just feels like a glacial pace that they are developed at. The FL mobile apps do many great things that others do not do, but it is frustrating that Accordance iOS has personal books (aka user modules, via dropbox or on mac WIFI device syncing) and Olivetree has t's own passage guide like feature working offline (resource guide).  And greek and hebrew look up happens in both offline. I referred in another thread to OT/ACC as more dependable. For me what I had meant was not that FL mobile APPS do not function properly, just that I can use it anywhere anytime without the need for wifi or cell signals. I maintain a home phone because I get no cell service at my house... I refer to my cell phone as not dependable, not because of any fault in the iPhones design, but because I can not use it the way i need to always. Because of this I have on purpose sometimes chose  to get a resource in the other programs because it will offer me greater integration at any point in time, not just when I have a signal. Again I say this not to encourage anyone to go to other programs, but to say other programs   can do it, why not FL mobile apps. I have cross compiled my own personal books on a few different occasions so i can have them on my iPad. I purchased the NIDOTTE/NIDNTTE in OT because it allowed me to always use it on my mobile devices in conjunction with the English text tied to the original languages. I value the FL system and integration but for myself the mobile device deficits are something I cannot ignore. And I feel FL does loose sales do to it's inaction at times. It has from me for sure.

-Dan

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 12:27 PM

Dan Francis:
I value the FL system and integration but for myself the mobile device deficits are something I cannot ignore.

Dan,

I know you want better offline capability, but posting over and over again about it won't make it happen any faster.!  However, I don't want to discourage you from posting over and over again (if it makes you feel better please do by all means!).  

Until there is any further movement on better offline support (and this will be decided by management on a cost/benefit scale, as are all UserVoice suggestions) there's not much more for me to say on the topic.

Believe me, I would love to see amazing offline support in the mobile apps but at the moment it doesn't appear to be a high priority. Those features that we *do* support are meant to be well supported and solid, so if/when better offline support is added I expect it will work well.  Meanwhile, I am glad you have other apps to use offline where our apps don't work as you expect them to.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 12:50 PM

I'm not counting on Faithlife ever implementing PBB sync on mobile. I have been exploring the various Windows-based tablets that run the full-blown Windows application as my solution. However, the smaller tablets (excluding the Surface Pro line) run Atom processors and have marginal RAM and storage space for me to jump just now. I am hoping that will change in the near future. Of course, that won't solve the issue of reading PBBs on phones.

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 1:26 PM

Bill Anderson:

I'm not counting on Faithlife ever implementing PBB sync on mobile.

Same here. I'm not investing my time in creating that many of them because of this.

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 2:10 PM

I know I do not need to express it over and over, in some ways it does relieve a little stress.. Sort of like a digital scream of frustration, only slightly more articulate. But I promise to try not to be too much a broken record... Although I do realize it has been twice this year.... Although first time  was clarifying what I meant when I inferred FL apps were unreliable. Which I attempted to make clear in this post and the reason I went on here was to help reveal what were some of the issues, while i was composing my response of course you replied with your much more helpful response. I do understand that these features are not like flipping a switch to turn on various functions but involves serious coding and testing as well planning to hopefully ensure NEW feature X/Y/Z doesn't interfere with feature A/B/C...

-dan

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 2:17 PM

Bill Anderson:

I'm not counting on Faithlife ever implementing PBB sync on mobile. I have been exploring the various Windows-based tablets that run the full-blown Windows application as my solution.

I am also exploring this route, Bill... it's kinda frustrating when you have to pursue a hardware solution to solve a software problem. I purchased a Dell Venue 8 Pro several months ago for the only purpose of running Logos. The only problem is that my library was too big to fit on the internal 64GB of memory, so I ended up having to install the Logos app and my entire library on an external micro SD card. Well the reason that's a problem is that it dramatically slows down the entire experience. So sluggish it's not worth using anymore. So alas, I am not hoping to eventually save up to get a Microsoft Surface tablet... but those are so expensive it will be a long way off before I can afford one. If only this one feature could come to iOS, it would save me so much time and money.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 2:28 PM

Kevin, the screenshot you posted (and then deleted it looks like) was actually extremely helpful for me. I understand a lot more now why there has been no progress on this after so many years. I'm still disappointed, but at least I understand what's going on now, which takes away a lot of the frustration. It's one thing to feel led on without explanation, it's another thing to hear a reasonable explanation as to why things aren't happening as we were initially led to believe they would. So thanks for that. As sad as it makes me to say this, I will officially stop holding my breath for iOS support of Personal Books.

I just hope that someone has responded to Bob (or will respond to him) in that thread with this (or similar) reasoning... yeah maybe this feature would be used by a small percentage of users, but those users are most likely some of the most dedicated to the company and have given the company the most amount of business. I think there is financial incentive to keeping your most loyal customers happy, which would seem to me to be the ones who are requesting this feature. Also, I think many more would use this feature if it were supported on mobile. So going off of stats of how many currently use personal books might be misleading. And lastly, I have a hard time believing that such a small minority want this when it is the #1 most requested feature. Something doesn't add up there. Anyway, just some thoughts that I hope make their way to the leadership of this company that I love and support so much.

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