Do you want every ebook in the world in Logos?

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This post has 394 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 2:07 PM

Some thoughts:

It seems that there is a need for four book stores:

  1. Tagged Biblical Research Books = Logos
  2. Tagged Academic Research Books = Noet
  3. EPub Christian Books = Vyrso
  4. EPub General Books = “New Store”

This being the case there need to be a search option at each of the stores to show results from all for book stores. It is already a pain to have to search both Logos and Vyrso to see if I can purchase a Christian book I am interested in.

Posts 47
Cale Judd | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 2:20 PM

Does having a license to offer something mean that you must offer it? While I would much rather have all my ebooks in Logos, I would certainly not encourage you to become a purveyor of porn, which is what you'd become if you offered books like 50 Shades of Grey.

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 2:27 PM

Jack Caviness:
"Would you be inviting the camel to stick his nose into the tent?"

A slippery slope maybe... When I see organizations stepping outside of their initial plans, which included serving Christ, I can't help but think of places like Harvard and its beginning.

Harvard's history includes its original motto: “Veritas pro Christo et Ecclesia;” not just Truth, but Truth for Christ and Church. That was true for the founders, however, it was later changed to just "Veritas." Christ and the Church has been dropped.

 We can't answer the questions Bob raised. I just pray it will be a decision that honors God and exalts the Savior.

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 2:48 PM

Super.Tramp:

David Taylor Jr:
With the example of the erotic fiction I would say has no place in logos.com. I will say if that ever made its way into the store I would cease using Logos on moral grounds.

For the same reason we ought not buy our gasoline from a store that sells cigarettes. Same with pizza joints that sell beer. And using Netflix, Amazon Prime and cable TV is off limits. Taking my car to a mechanic who swears should be a no-no. I could go on.

Whats wrong with beer?

Posts 989
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 3:00 PM

Kent:
Veritas pro Christo et Ecclesia

I think it is great for Godly people and businesses to get involved in all manner of things because it is by being in the world that Christ redeemed the world. Logos for maths, medicine and everything else is a great idea.

A gradually secularized Logos which eventually no longer serves the Lord or the church would be a tragedy.

In the UK we've had long and sustained pressure to introduce by default internet filtering and such. I would like to see the internet clean as much as our bookshops etc. I'm not convinced that we can clean up the shop from the outside though. Crowd pressure on the publishers as well as political pressure may also be necessary. I think there is a pragmatic problem that many great books christian or otherwise are in the hands of purveyors of bad books. I don't think we are in a position to cut off the good with the bad. I think we need to get involved and try to weed the bad out.

I don't think that really solves anything or answers the question for Bob but I think it reminds us that our calling is not to separate ourselves in order to preserve our holiness but to bring holiness and freedom to a world caught in sin.

It may never work perfectly but it shouldn't upset the workings of such a system to build in filters? That I think is the best option for faithlife at this time.

For the rest of us, maybe we can petition the publishers? Maybe we can buy shares and address the companies from within?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 5
Jane Parrish | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 3:43 PM

No. I'm glad you asked, Bob. I'm pleased to give my reply.

Posts 2061
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 3:49 PM

Maybe Logos should just drop "Faith" and "Logos" from their name, rebrand and go for it?

Posts 1647
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:03 PM

Deleted. Could be construed as uncharitable.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 270
Kelvin Niblett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:39 PM

Bob as a pastor who is currently cataloging my print library I can attest to how many books slip through the cracks in biblical studies and also secular books in leadership, management and creativity that have a place on a pastors bookshelf.

I wholeheartedly support this venture, as it would value add the usability of Logos for me.

Many of the speakers at the Global Leadership Summit that Willow Creek Church/Bill Hybells hosts are only available thru secular publishers.

The Chronicles of Narnia would find a place, which would provide great access for sermon illustrations.

I could go on and on.

As per the '50 shades of Grey' just because it is available does not mean you have to buy it. My local grocery store has an alcohol section, just because they have alcohol for sale, many legalistic tea toattlers (people who are non consumers of alcohol), still show at this supermarket.

 

Posts 2252
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:52 PM

Bob

I'm more than satisfied with Logos' offerings. Keep the main thing your focus. Being the best is so much a matter of saying no!

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:58 PM

Mark Barnes:

I would be quite supportive of a secular version of Vyrso.com, with three provisos:

  • Entirely separate branding.
  • It makes a net contribution to Faithlife.
  • Your contracts allow us to send these books to Kindle.

Like most people on here I read secular books. I would prefer them in Logos format, even if all I do is send them to Kindle.



Yes Yes Yes!

Just make it incredibly difficult to wander into anything objectionable - thinking specifically of the erotic "literature" that possibly will come down the pipe. Maybe individuals ought to be required to enter their credit card number to view the page (haha... bad joke RE all the posts about free books & cc number entry - but only half joking here). How would you feel if one of your kids, or a grandkid stumbled into verbal pornography on their dad or grandads website?

I doubt any of those will sell any way, at least at first.

I have said on here a couple of times that I would rather have the book in vyrso and untagged than not have it at all. Those popular titles of worth could then be updated.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 67
Bryce Hufford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 5:32 PM

My thoughts:

1) Would it drive the price down for resources I want to own?  If yes, then by all means do it.

2) Just because every book is available, doesn't mean that it would change the way I use Logos.  I use Logos for Bible study, and I would have no intention to buy Logos resources that didn't have anything to do with Bible study for my library (unless they were free/deeply discounted).

3) It would be hypocritical for me to boycott Logos if resources like Shades of Grey are available since I regularly purchase eBooks from Amazon today.

4) A bit off topic, but I personally don't like the different brand strategy (Vyrso, Noet, Logos, Faithlife, etc.).  I prefer one common storefront where I can buy resources for my library.  I don't want to look for sales on 4 different web pages.      

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 5:48 PM

Bob,

I appreciate what you do and you have never steered us wrong. I live in a world where I can get anything I want. I make good choices most of the time and am confident if you make Amazon's products (which are already available to us) available to us then the choices I make to purchase will be to supplement my Logos library. I love the idea of textbooks for college in our library systems. I am now getting some of my textbooks in Logos from classes I took 5 years ago. I am all for you adding Amazon resources.

Posts 3054
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 5:56 PM

David Paul:
I have a question for all those who've posted here and said, "NO!" Have you ever bought a book from Amazon? Yes?? You do realize that Amazon sells 50 Shades, don't you? Please explain why it is okay for you to do business with Amazon, or B&N, or whomever, but not Bob.

Because, in brief, and to put it mildly, Amazon doesn't purport to be Christian; Faithlife does.

Posts 236
Michael March | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:35 PM

Kelvin Niblett:

Bob as a pastor who is currently cataloging my print library I can attest to how many books slip through the cracks in biblical studies and also secular books in leadership, management and creativity that have a place on a pastors bookshelf.

I wholeheartedly support this venture, as it would value add the usability of Logos for me.

Many of the speakers at the Global Leadership Summit that Willow Creek Church/Bill Hybells hosts are only available thru secular publishers.

The Chronicles of Narnia would find a place, which would provide great access for sermon illustrations.

I could go on and on.

As per the '50 shades of Grey' just because it is available does not mean you have to buy it. My local grocery store has an alcohol section, just because they have alcohol for sale, many legalistic tea toattlers (people who are non consumers of alcohol), still show at this supermarket.

 

I agree with this post almost word for word. Well said and thank you Kelvin.

I would love to be able to search all of my books and I am almost exclusively purchasing ebooks these days. There are times when I spend a lot of time searching to find a quote in one of my own books for sermon or Bible study preparation, and this would be very helpful to me. To use your example, of the Chronicles of Narnia, I could find Eustice getting his scales scraped off or Lucy choosing to follow the crowd instead of Aslan in seconds, and then copy and paste the quote and move on!

Windows PC - Android Phone - Surface Pro 4

Posts 1019
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:01 PM

Kelvin Niblett:

 My local grocery store has an alcohol section, just because they have alcohol for sale, many legalistic tea toattlers (people who are non consumers of alcohol), still show at this supermarket.

That's an interesting analogy.  While my family routinely shops at the supermarket, we sometimes go to specialty stores for very high quality or unique ingredients.  I very frequently shop at Amazon, but it's not really a specialty bookstore.  That's how I tend to view Logos.com - it's a specialty retailer that is dedicated to serving a particular need better than the general retailers like Amazon can.  I periodically go to a store that sells nothing but spices, because they have very, very good spices. That's all they do, and their staff are very knowledgeable.  If they were to broaden and dilute their focus so that they turned into just another supermarket, I wouldn't bother - there are other perfectly good supermarkets that are more convenient.

Of course, for all I know the company that owns the spice store may also own supermarkets. I don't really care, because when they do spices, they really focus on spices and do them well. As a Logos.com customer, my concern is that they not lose focus or quality on what they're already doing.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:37 PM

Bob Pritchett:
What do you think?

Don't swamp the present websites (Logos, Verbum, Noet, Vyrso).  Start a new one, Pritchett.com.

If you have reservations putting your name on it maybe you shouldn't do it.

I will buy from you whatever you decide.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:00 PM

Bob Pritchett:

I need your advice.

What do we do with a publisher's catalog that includes everything from academic biography to erotic fiction? The same massive publisher that has Timothy Keller's Reason for God also publishes 50 Shades of Grey.

While I am not surprised by this development (planning wise at least) from a business perspective, the fact that Bob would even ask saddens me greatly.

This is how I will see and deal with Faithlife if this happens (it does not matter if it is under one storefront or many, the principle is the same).

Doing so would make it clear that Faithlife (a name that might not be appropriate for very long if this happens) wants to become the Harvard of electronic publishing, a fate that would include a similar (more or less) prestige and financial prosperity but also the same spiritual desolation and ruin (only the latter matters for eternity).

This would only show that the company mission's is not to serve God but to worship mammon and the profits its bring (or are we getting possibly exposed erotica for research into human depravity?).

Just image the possible legacy summarized by statements such as , "I became hooked on pornography and extramarital affairs after discovering this erotica series through Faithlife (or whatever store front)." What a testimony. and no, the excuse, I was just the electronic distributor will not do anymore that I was just the drug-dealer and it was not even my main business venture.

Because Faithlife (Logos) began with a mission to serve the Church, it is held to a different standard than the one applied to Amazon for example that has never pretended to be Christian. 1 Cor 5:9-13 would apply here.

If Logos goes that route, I will cease to purchase resources and tools for the company except what is absolutely needed to maintain and use my existing collection.

As far as my students are concerned, how could I in good conscience recommend anything associated with Faithlife without showing that compromising Christian values for financial gain is acceptable and rewarded.

 Yes, I feel strongly about this issue. I have heavily invested in Logos and that would be a betrayal pure and simple for me.

Alain 

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 9:09 PM

I would prefer buying all my books from Logos, unless the cost was too high.  But if the cost was close I would go Logos every time.  I would pay a bit more to have any book in Logos. 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2313
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 9:15 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Bottom Line: If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we? And if so, how?

Clear NO from me. Until now, Vyrso content has very high standards. Compared to Kindle and other market places, where you often can't even distinguish between proper content and KDP and other self publishing junk yards, Vyrso content has always been reviewed and accepted by a proper publishing house.

So a proper publisher is the minimum standard I'd set. That should include all those school books. If it doesn't, then the school requiring them is probably a bit dodgy.

So what about erotic literature that's included in the catalogues? I personally don't care. I don't read it, but I'm not offended by it either. Everyone who is, should take themselves a pair of scissors, and cut the Song of Solomon out of their Bible....

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

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