Do you want every ebook in the world in Logos?

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 10:29 AM

Thank you Francis for your input, every blessings.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 12:12 PM

I hope Bob is still following this thread although it doesn't seem like he's going to respond more times in this particular thread but I'd be happy to get surprised.
IMHO, the one biggest purpose (and it may even be enough if it's the only purpose) to take theology classes (such as semesters in uni seminary) and to research, is to clear misconceptions of all things related and correct errors in one's theology or if done with that correct factual errors such as wrong conclusions.
Like I said early on in this thread (my previous posts are on pages 5, 10, 13) there is no Christian Ethics - as I and MJ. Smith demonstrated there are a number of things Christians don't agree on avoiding thus barely having higher morals than non-believers.
Statistics (Sociology of Religion) in Sweden suggest that Christian youth from smaller protestant denominations than the "liberal-Lutheran" one have high sexual morals (ethics in usual U.S. terminology). So pornography and erotic novels is far from the only concern about the venture into introducing 90% of ebook catalogues.
I've been a Logos customer for 13 years, and most of the time Logos the corporation has not been among the best Bible Study software companies to realize the implications of handing out severely deficient books in terms of their actual content. Tagging and typo-correction is consistent and excellent (even if I prefer Accordance when it comes to that also such as with the drop-down-menu search fields they have and their Göttingen Septuagint Edition typo-correction quality) but Logos distributes and promotes so much misconceptions (for example outdated '90s and '00s books), lack of scholarly research and popular authors in for example base-packages and sermon collections that it's actually frightening. Users should hide what they don't want, true, but I see little reason other than having it as padding and to increase total book counts to distribute some of what's included in base-packages. This is perhaps slightly off-topic but serves to show how Faithlife continues to fail in this area, and my lack of trust that they'll dare to deny "Christian" books from being listed in the Store. And no I'm not referring to public domain since those books are many times the least harmful content even if not always valuable.
No, I don't expect for example accurate history books cheap.
FL has to think carefully are they spreading the interest thin? I think they have been doing exactly that cautiously speaking for at least a year now. The more books are offered the fewer actually excellent, valuable or "historically" unique (as in books that are not re-appearing in a tagged or searchable format unless FL produces them where search functionality is important such as for example encyclopedias) books will ever ship from community pricing and pre-pub.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 1:22 PM

Unix:
IMHO, the one biggest purpose (and it may even be enough if it's the only purpose) to take theology classes (such as semesters in uni seminary) and to research, is to clear misconceptions of all things related and correct errors in one's theology or if done with that correct factual errors such as wrong conclusions.

If I understand you correctly, I respectfully disagree. I never want Logos to "correct" my theology. Which direction would they take me? Catholic/Protestant? Calvinist/Arminian? Pentecostal? SDA? Evangelical? Mennonite? I am responsible for what I read and believe, not Logos.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 1:48 PM

Unix:

IMHO, the one biggest purpose (and it may even be enough if it's the only purpose) to take theology classes (such as semesters in uni seminary) and to research, is to clear misconceptions of all things related and correct errors in one's theology or if done with that correct factual errors such as wrong conclusions.

I strongly disagree. The purpose of education, any education, is to provide you with tools to think about, to question intelligently and to apply a particular subject. If also provides a history of thought on a topic so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel or go down erroneous/unfruitful paths. Yes, with these tools we should correct errors in one's theology ... but there is no evidence that occurs. What appears to occur is the development of a desire to correct others' errors in theology. Spiritual discipline and friendships appear more effective in correcting errors in one's  own theology.

Logos is a tool that can be used for educational or spiritual discipline ends. But it is just a tool. It is not an education nor a spiritual discipline. This is why I would like to be able to expand my Logos platform to include my logic, philosophy, history, educational theory, literature, system thought, ... books.

BTW I believe that there is a Christian ethics/morality. It's just that many Christians pick and choose which portions they acknowledge - collectively and individually. And many other Christians try to add into Christian ethics that which is merely cultural norms.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 6:26 PM

MJ. Smith:

BTW I believe that there is a Christian ethics/morality. It's just that many Christians pick and choose which portions they acknowledge - collectively and individually. And many other Christians try to add into Christian ethics that which is merely cultural norms.

YesYesYes

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 7:45 PM

MJ. Smith:
The purpose of education, any education, is to provide you with tools to think about, to question intelligently and to apply a particular subject.

Yes!

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 3:01 AM

Thanks, Martha, for responding and guiding me! Smile
I did say it was my humble opinion. What I was saying was what I think is or should be happening when starting out. When progressing, what You said should happen, also provided that one has an even intelligence. I'm not sure my intelligence is that even and combined with that I think about what I'm interested in many times I haven't been focusing on progressing but on things such as reading reviews, asking for opinions and then shopping books.

Then like You said, I'd have to agree perhaps we can only correct (the worst or the most hidden) errors at the stage when progressing further. Yes, I definitely agree that spiritual discipline and friendships are more important in correcting errors in one's own theology, good that You brought that up! Big Smile It's pleasant to think about that one can progress that far and in that way!!

The other thing being discussed: well I do believe there definitely is a Christian morals (which is ethics in usual U.S. terminology). But as long as few for example see that we shouldn't eat pork it doesn't feel like Christians are very Biblical. Yesterday I went to the other side of the City with my best friend to a suburb where they have an exhibition of old buildings with furniture and some animals outside, and they had a few pigs (of which I saw only one - unclear if it's the only one left) - a race which has survived over here for 4,500 years and now the one(s) they have over there are the last ones to exist. I started to cry when I read that on the sign:

MJ. Smith:
I strongly disagree. The purpose of education, any education, is to provide you with tools to think about, to question intelligently and to apply a particular subject. If also provides a history of thought on a topic so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel or go down erroneous/unfruitful paths. Yes, with these tools we should correct errors in one's theology ... but there is no evidence that occurs. What appears to occur is the development of a desire to correct others' errors in theology. Spiritual discipline and friendships appear more effective in correcting errors in one's  own theology.

Logos is a tool that can be used for educational or spiritual discipline ends. But it is just a tool. It is not an education nor a spiritual discipline. This is why I would like to be able to expand my Logos platform to include my logic, philosophy, history, educational theory, literature, system thought, ... books.

BTW I believe that there is a Christian ethics/morality. It's just that many Christians pick and choose which portions they acknowledge - collectively and individually. And many other Christians try to add into Christian ethics that which is merely cultural norms:

Unix:
IMHO, the one biggest purpose (and it may even be enough if it's the only purpose) to take theology classes (such as semesters in uni seminary) and to research, is to clear misconceptions of all things related and correct errors in one's theology or if done with that correct factual errors such as wrong conclusions.

Aply!
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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 5:36 AM

Listed below are "snippets" from other posts (in order of appearance) that pretty well sum up my feelings/concerns.

Kendall Sholtess
...I feel that the best route is to create a separate store.

MJ. Smith
My inclination would be for separate stores for much the same reason I go to either a Christian bookstore, a University bookstore or a general bookstore...

Sean Emslie
It would be great for Faithlife to make an agreement with Amazon to be able to easily turn a Kindle book into a Logos Resource.

Reuben Helmuth
I would most like to see a separate store with rigorous filtering/sorting abilities.

Francis
If some publishers try to impose the all or nothing approach, I would prefer personally that Logos retains a Christian distinctiveness even if it means less access. The intersection of ethics and business still matters to many of us.

One last consideration ...whether it would -- even if you don't intend it -- result in a diluting of sort, a double-mindedness as it were when it comes to focus, and less resources/priority going to the current platform.

Lynden Williams
1. Separate store.
2. Allow the user to select genre when searching and other categories when searching the store and seeing what is displayed on the store front.
3. The store remembers my preferences.
4. Allow me to choose what is downloaded in Logos and what is downloaded in the other app for all the other stuff.
5. I am hoping this option if you go this way, helps lower the cost of Logos books.
6. The quality of Logos books do not suffer.

Mark Barnes
I would be quite supportive of a secular version of Vyrso.com, with three provisos:

  • Entirely separate branding.
  • It makes a net contribution to Faithlife.
  • Your contracts allow us to send these books to Kindle.

Like most people on here I read secular books. I would prefer them in Logos format, even if all I do is send them to Kindle.

Keith Larson
It seems that there is a need for four book stores:

  1. Tagged Biblical Research Books = Logos
  2. Tagged Academic Research Books = Noet
  3. EPub Christian Books = Vyrso
  4. EPub General Books = “New Store”

This being the case there need to be a search option at each of the stores to show results from all for book stores. It is already a pain to have to search both Logos and Vyrso to see if I can purchase a Christian book I am interested in.

 

 

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 5:47 AM

I would like to see more general Ancient Near Eastern histories in Logos.  This seems to be the avenue for that to happen.  I like the 90/10 option, but I think people are ultimately responsible for policing their own purchasing.  If one is going to find it too great of a temptation, then he or she should not be using the internet, because the internet itself opens one up to all sorts of perversions and heretical ideas.  Everyone viewing this site did a cost benefit analysis and decided that even though he or she could be exposed to inappropriate material by using the internet, the benefits outweighed the potential pitfalls.  It should be the same with the bookstore, which I also agree should be completely separate from Logos/Vyrso.   

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 6:57 AM

Well, I've carefully held back, hiding my views in the 'shades' of subtle sarcasm.  Theology is behaviors that Logos can't search.

But now that the votes are in (shocking all who live in Ireland), I'm pleased as punch to vote for ALL BOOKS. Here's my carefully crafted rationalizing.

1. Bart. Oxford Press. Say no more.

2. Tempting fellow believers, to see if they were elected.  Yes, I know. That was not Paul's argument concerning grace. But it seems to be the forum argument, and it makes complete sense.


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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 7:42 AM

I barely use search engines, also in order to not to cause unnecessary load on them. I've been prepping to be without internet soon. I have a data cap in the broadband. I can't afford internet I don't pay anything at all for my internet connection. I have barely used social media at all. It's unclear to me how others afford internet all their life? I don't read blogs or journals:

Joseph Turner:
If one is going to find it too great of a temptation, then he or she should not be using the internet, because the internet itself opens one up to all sorts of perversions and heretical ideas.  Everyone viewing this site did a cost benefit analysis and decided that even though he or she could be exposed to inappropriate material by using the internet, the benefits outweighed the potential pitfalls.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 10:37 AM

Joseph Turner:
 I like the 90/10 option, but I think people are ultimately responsible for policing their own purchasing.  If one is going to find it too great of a temptation, then he or she should not be using the internet, because the internet itself opens one up to all sorts of perversions and heretical ideas.  Everyone viewing this site did a cost benefit analysis and decided that even though he or she could be exposed to inappropriate material by using the internet, the benefits outweighed the potential pitfalls.

Very good Joseph.

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 11:33 AM

As long as it doesn't have the phrase "Jesus Calling®" in the title.

No longer actively posting. Please remind T-Bone to take his meds.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 1:57 PM

Denise:
Well, I've carefully held back, hiding my views in the 'shades' of subtle sarcasm.

Denise use sarcasm? Wow, that is hard to believe! Wink

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 1:59 PM

Joseph Turner:

I would like to see more general Ancient Near Eastern histories in Logos.  This seems to be the avenue for that to happen.  I like the 90/10 option, but I think people are ultimately responsible for policing their own purchasing.  If one is going to find it too great of a temptation, then he or she should not be using the internet, because the internet itself opens one up to all sorts of perversions and heretical ideas.  Everyone viewing this site did a cost benefit analysis and decided that even though he or she could be exposed to inappropriate material by using the internet, the benefits outweighed the potential pitfalls.  It should be the same with the bookstore, which I also agree should be completely separate from Logos/Vyrso.   

This has been my position and thoughts for some time. Thanks for expressing it in your words.

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John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 2:11 PM

Maybe they could call the store alllife.com, fallenlife.com or perhaps better - reallife.com?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 2:58 PM

Big Smile That illustrates it very well! (I already specified in one of my previous posts (I've been posting on pages 5, 10, 13, 14) that I'm against a separate storefront):

John Goodman:
Maybe they could call the store alllife.com, fallenlife.com or perhaps better - reallife.com?

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 5:00 PM

Unix:

Big Smile That illustrates it very well! (I already specified in one of my previous posts (I've been posting on pages 5, 10, 13, 14) that I'm against a separate storefront):

John Goodman:
Maybe they could call the store alllife.com, fallenlife.com or perhaps better - reallife.com?

Generally I feel the same way... but while they may get away with it in Vyrso (relabeling it a book store, not a Christian Book store), I am sure some people would put up a big deal about having books they consider an attack on their faith being sold in Logos/Verbum fronts. While I do not follow Richard Dawkins The God Delusion conclusion (to be honest i have never fully read it) this book should be allowed in a secular store front and is important in my mind for forming a response. Yet books like this appearing in Logos/Verbum store sight in my mind is highly provocative to put it mildly.

-Dan

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 5:26 PM

Dan Francis:

Unix:

Big Smile That illustrates it very well! (I already specified in one of my previous posts (I've been posting on pages 5, 10, 13, 14) that I'm against a separate storefront):

John Goodman:
Maybe they could call the store alllife.com, fallenlife.com or perhaps better - reallife.com?

Generally I feel the same way... but while they may get away with it in Vyrso (relabeling it a book store, not a Christian Book store), I am sure some people would put up a big deal about having books they consider an attack on their faith being sold in Logos/Verbum fronts. While I do not follow Richard Dawkins The God Delusion conclusion (to be honest i have never fully read it) this book should be allowed in a secular store front and is important in my mind for forming a response. Yet books like this appearing in Logos/Verbum store sight in my mind is highly provocative to put it mildly.

-Dan

Yes

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 23 2015 6:07 PM

Surely you jest (and, no, I didn't call you Shirley [I know, old joke]).  You would almost certainly go broke doing that since there are many, many, many books that the faith community would never purchase.  When I go to a store I go directly to the area where the item I want is to be found and make a bee-line to the checkout so I don't do a lot of browsing.  In other words I tend to agree with MJ.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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