You Should Probably Stop Using Lexicons

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This post has 33 Replies | 4 Followers

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 27 2015 6:10 PM

Shouldn't George have a comment in here somewhere?  If I am remembering correctly, he doesn't like lexicons.  Big Smile

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Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 27 2015 8:16 PM

Let's shut the front and back door. Logos should be forbidden from providing language tools that will prove dangerous to the common folk.

Lock it all up in Hebrew and Greek with no Lexicons to be found.

Just because a crack in the dam formed first with Latin, then English does not mean we should not try to plug and repair the damage.

Cool


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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 28 2015 12:42 AM

The better lexicons, like HALOT, BDAG, etc. actually are the fruit of the process that is being recommended in this article - lots of looking at different uses in context, studying the history of the word, consulting with experts, etc.

So, rather than not using Lexicons, maybe what is most important is understanding that Lexicons provide glosses based on a process that we can repeat ourselves if we have the time and know-how. And that, occasionally, we might come to different conclusions. My guess/hope is that this is what the article is really trying to get at, with a bit of hyperbole thrown in.

If we don't have the time and know-how to do this process ourselves, Lexicons are great and necessary because they allow us to benefit from the expertise of those who do.

And, if you know how to use the Lexicon well, they can be quite helpful to doing the process itself. They allow us to quickly see different contexts, and enter into the scholarly discussion that has gone on about a word (at least with academic lexicons like HALOT and BDAG) so that our own decisions will be better informed. Even great experts know that they need Lexicons, because good research is done in an academic community, and is much more fruitful that way.

Logos / Verbum makes all this easier, not because it replaces Lexicons, but because it makes it easier for us to enter into that dialogue, regardless of whether we are beginners or experts.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 28 2015 1:42 AM

Ronald Quick:

Shouldn't George have a comment in here somewhere?  If I am remembering correctly, he doesn't like lexicons.  Big Smile

As far as I remember, he doesn't like the "pick your gloss from this short list of context free possibilities"-type of dictionaries (maybe even less those who like Strongs operate on the basis of the KJV translation unencumbered by ancient meaning and usage). Other than that, I think he tirelessly recommended selling one's child for BDAG.... 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 28 2015 3:28 AM

Funnily enough, I was also wondering where George was.

Well I think the message is, although selling one's child is worth it for BDAG, selling the neighbours dead pet rabbit is too high a price for the "Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew ...."  course.

Seriously, thanks folks.

Posts 128
Pete De Bonte | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 8:05 PM

A month ago, I called Logos to ask if I could use "Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew" considering my limited Logos features/library.  I have, e.g. BDB, but I was told that, to take full advantage, I'd really want more lexicons, like BDAG.

Btw, while investigating BDAG last month, I found this relevant item that doesn't require selling one's child (public domain, actually):

If you use BDAG, you have seen the abbreviation ‘M-M’ at the end of many entries. This note, which appears some 4,700 times in BDAG, indicates that Moulton and Milligan’s lexicon also has an entry for that word.
https://www.logos.com/product/5773/vocabulary-of-the-greek-testament

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 11:44 PM

About 30 years ago in Kenya my 6 years old son came in telling me with enthusiastic voice that "kuenda" means "go away" (in Swahili). He did not need any dictionary: the situation, the face expression of the construction worker, the tone of the voice and probably some hand signs provided him the cue. But when learning the Biblical languages we don't have all that available. But videos would help, I think. Any available in the internet?

And I like the 'M-M' mentioned above

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 6:48 AM

Veli Voipio:
But when learning the Biblical languages we don't have all that available. But videos would help, I think. Any available in the internet?

I attempted to answer such a question recently on the Christian Discourse forums

http://christiandiscourse.com/t/resources-for-learning-biblical-hebrew/657?u=bkmitchell

 The following two online video courses are basically equal to a full year of Seminary Biblical Hebrew. They are not in Logos, but they are free.They are graciously made available by the Master's Seminary and by Dr. Barrick:

OT 503 Hebrew Grammar I (Full first Semester)
http://www.theologicalresources.org/the-masters-seminary/17-hebrew-grammar-i/

OT 504 Hebrew II (Full Second Semester)
http://www.theologicalresources.org/the-masters-seminary/18-hebrew-grammar-ii/

Link to a PDF of the Grammar
http://drbarrick.org/files/studynotes/Other/B_B_Hebrew_Grammar_2005.pdf

Link to a PDF of the Workbook
http://drbarrick.org/files/studynotes/Other/B_B_Hebrew_Grammar_Wkbk_Full.pdf

If you finish those a liked them a two more semesters of Hebrew are also available here:

(1) http://drbarrick.org/hebrew/hebrew-exegesis-i/

(2) http://drbarrick.org/hebrew/hebrew-exegesis-ii/

 

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

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JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 7:33 AM

Pete De Bonte:
I found this relevant item that doesn't require selling one's child

Thanks Pete!

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 7:49 AM

The good doctor seems to have really struck a chord with the lexicon addicts. Years back, I felt bad about bragging about how good M-M was. But that was only because BDAG is a modern-day theological dictionary.  I have BDAG, but I don't even think I have it prioritized in my top 5. 

Now, I've no professional responsibilities to lead people on, but I am a big believer in context ... get resources that deliver context. The Bible maybe? Papayri (M-M). Inscriptions. Similar languages. Translations into secondary languages. With L6 it's do-able.  As the good doctor finished off with.


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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 8:01 AM

Thanks BKM!

And regarding to 

Denise:
get resources that deliver context
how about the https://www.logos.com/product/16528/oxyrhynchus-papyri - it has been incubating quite long in the pre-pub?

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 8:02 AM

BKMitchell:

Veli Voipio:
But when learning the Biblical languages we don't have all that available. But videos would help, I think. Any available in the internet?

I attempted to answer such a question recently on the Christian Discourse forums

http://christiandiscourse.com/t/resources-for-learning-biblical-hebrew/657?u=bkmitchell

 The following two online video courses are basically equal to a full year of Seminary Biblical Hebrew. They are not in Logos, but they are free.They are graciously made available by the Master's Seminary and by Dr. Barrick:

OT 503 Hebrew Grammar I (Full first Semester)
http://www.theologicalresources.org/the-masters-seminary/17-hebrew-grammar-i/

OT 504 Hebrew II (Full Second Semester)
http://www.theologicalresources.org/the-masters-seminary/18-hebrew-grammar-ii/

Link to a PDF of the Grammar
http://drbarrick.org/files/studynotes/Other/B_B_Hebrew_Grammar_2005.pdf

Link to a PDF of the Workbook
http://drbarrick.org/files/studynotes/Other/B_B_Hebrew_Grammar_Wkbk_Full.pdf

If you finish those a liked them a two more semesters of Hebrew are also available here:

(1) http://drbarrick.org/hebrew/hebrew-exegesis-i/

(2) http://drbarrick.org/hebrew/hebrew-exegesis-ii/

 

Yes

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 3:04 PM

If, you like the Basics of Biblical Language Series Logos/faithlife sells Greek/Hebrew Video lecture series together for 159 USD:  

https://www.logos.com/product/34026/zondervan-biblical-languages-video-lectures

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2015 3:15 AM

Video lectures are good but I was thinking videos re-enacting ancient life using the ancient languages, with an ancient scene in the background.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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