Free Book of the Month (June 2015) Live

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Posts 221
André Kamphuis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2015 10:37 PM

Denise:
I remember the EEC conversations. At the time, and still, I thought the EEC buyers were the type that put their money behind their beliefs (complement)

I am happy for those who get to have these commentaries for almost nothing! But the timing of offering two EEC for (almost) free isn't great. Those of us who put our money in up front have been receiving almost no status up dates at all, and if there was any news, it's almost always: "unfortunately, there are new delays. But rest assured we are still excited about this project!". We haven't received any new volumes for quite a while, and all volumes slated for this year won't come out until towards the end of the year, next year, the year after, or after we receive another typical "status update". 

In the meanwhile, several volumes have been sold at great discounts or given away. The early investors are still waiting for about 90% of the series that is still advertised as being finished in 2019. I simply don't think that the people who put in $700-$1000 up front before they had seen anything, just believing Faithlife on its word, have been taken seriously. It's not just that promises have been made about which Faithlife had to change its mind, but also the poor way Logos communicates about this whole project. The limited value that the early investors have seen for their hundreds of dollars, has been given away to others or made available for very low prices. Great for the lucky others, but I think Faithlife needs to start communicating accurate information (most dates on the website are still inaccurate or overly optimistic), and understand better the feelings of those who trusted the company to deliver what they sold. 

The EEC is a stellar series, and we should be excited about it. But I'm afraid I've lost my initial excitement and keep wondering whether I made the right choice to purchase the whole series, or not. 

Posts 3763
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 2:20 AM

André Kamphuis:

hose of us who put our money in up front have been receiving almost no status up dates at all, and if there was any news, it's almost always: "unfortunately, there are new delays. But rest assured we are still excited about this project!". We haven't received any new volumes for quite a while, and all volumes slated for this year won't come out until towards the end of the year, next year, the year after, or after we receive another typical "status update". 

In the meanwhile, several volumes have been sold at great discounts or given away. The early investors are still waiting for about 90% of the series that is still advertised as being finished in 2019.

André, I am sorry to read about these frustrations. I would hope that FL would be fair-play about this and perhaps provide a partial refund (really something of a discount) in the form of credit to those who have invested in the product as you have. FL staff may see this thread and respond, but if not, perhaps EEC series purchasers should take the initiative and bring this to their attention.

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 2:48 AM

I too came on-board with EEC from the start, so also disappointed with what often feels like a broken promise. I'm happy that others get access to these works, but it still stings and I feel the pain. Sadly, not sure I'd front up to any such future "offer" at this kind of price scale. I'm more inclined to take the risk and go along for the free ride if it ever happens, and "too bad" if the project failed.

I'm not angry - just sad.

Posts 3763
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 3:00 AM

Bob said this:

Bob Pritchett:
I try to set expectations such that I'll never disappoint people. Of course I constantly disappoint people, because people always bring their own expectations into the equation -- but I like to think that they'll never be able to point to a promise I made that I failed to deliver on.
(the bolded text is original)

Here: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/105177/727348.aspx#727348

So, if you feel that there is a broken promise here, perhaps he has not noticed or does not realize that this is how you feel about it (or perhaps there may be disagreement on what the promise was). I really think you guys should bring it up to FL's attention.

Posts 221
André Kamphuis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 3:28 AM

Francis:
I really think you guys should bring it up to FL's attention.

Thanks for the advice, Francis. I have written to Bob and included a link to this thread. 

Posts 170
Jim Snowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 3:48 AM

Well said Andre. My sentiments too.

It would be nice to see a Faithlife response to confirm that they understand the frustration of those who bought the series early and also a bit more explanation of the long delays in the production of the remaining volumes (several of which are said to have been completed as far as writing is concerned so it seems it is Faithlife production effort that is needed now to publish them).

In the software world where I work, when we are not really sure when we will produce a release, if ever, we tend to say "by the end of the year". Hopefully the release dates currently communicated by Logos for the volumes this year are more certain than our software dates!

Jim

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 4:00 AM

Mark Smith:
It might be a bit of a problem for those who subscribed to the series being told that would be the only way it would be made available. Then they were told that changed and people could buy the books individually. Some have paid 'full price' for these commentaries through subscription believing they were getting the best price. Now, oops, that has changed.

I was one of the original subscribers, but I also argued that Logos should make them available for individual sale.

My only comment about the free plus offer is "I must own too much Logos resources because I seldom get a freebie" Crying

Big Smile Would use a tongue in cheek graphic, but that would run the danger of biting said tongue Big Smile

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 4:04 AM

As someone who bought in early to this series I understand what people are saying. Certainly there are a few issues here. One is communication of release dates and the other is a feeling of getting a raw deal because we paid for titles that are now being offered for free or almost free.

I agree that some more communication on how things are going would be nice but I believe that Faithlife has sent me updates about most, if not all of the updates.

As far as getting a raw deal is concerned I'm reminded of the parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard in Matthew 20 when the laborers who worked all day received the same pay as the ones who only worked part of the day. When the workers complained at the end of the day the owner responded and said "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’" Faithlife is being generous to others and I choose to rejoice with those who are benefiting from this generous offer.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 4:09 AM

André Kamphuis:

Francis:
I really think you guys should bring it up to FL's attention.

Thanks for the advice, Francis. I have written to Bob and included a link to this thread. 

I was contemplating doing this—in fact, it may be good for all the original subscribers to duplicate your message.

Bruce Dunning:

As far as getting a raw deal is concerned I'm reminded of the parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard in Matthew 20 when the laborers who worked all day received the same pay as the ones who only worked part of the day. When the workers complained at the end of the day the owner responded and said "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’" Faithlife is being generous to others and I choose to rejoice with those who are benefiting from this generous offer.

I do rejoice with those who are now getting a good deal, but also feel that FL has dropped the ball in its treatment of the original subscribers. It has been almost a year since the last volume was released, and I do not remember any communication from FL concerning the constant delays in production. The published volumes are excellent, but the production schedule does not match the original advertising hype. Should have expected it, however, as Logos marketing is normally "over promise—under deliver."

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 4:43 AM

Bruce,

Yes I'm aware of Matt 20, but that is NOT the point.

We had been told things back when we ordered like "the only way it will be sold" etc. I think one of the first few posts in this thread captured the words better than I remember.

In the Matt 20 story, everyone at the beginning still got what they had agreed to. And those later too got what was agreed. No one got ripped off or let down.

If you read the MANY posts over the years about EEC, I think you will find the issue is not that those later got a great deal, but that the original deal had never been honoured!

Posts 645
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 4:46 AM

Bruce Dunning:

As far as getting a raw deal is concerned I'm reminded of the parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard in Matthew 20 when the laborers who worked all day received the same pay as the ones who only worked part of the day. When the workers complained at the end of the day the owner responded and said "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’" Faithlife is being generous to others and I choose to rejoice with those who are benefiting from this generous offer.

You would bring up the Bible! Wink

Posts 1582
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 5:03 AM

Thanks Faithlife! Had both on my wishlist Yes

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 3222
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 5:19 AM

I apologize for my original post- I see now though an expression of frustration it is causing a certai amount of unnecessay discourse, once again forgive my post.

Posts 2392
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 5:19 AM

I also purchased the EEC in the beginning.  I was reading some older forum posts and if I remember correctly, the first volume was released on June 1, 2011.  According to my library, eight volumes have been released over the past 4 years.

I'm not upset at Logos giving away 2 of the commentaries.  I've gotten some good deals from Logos in the past as well.  I just wish that more of them would move into production.

Posts 1080
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 7:36 AM

Rob:

 

To put page numbers on a potentially expanding resource would be frustrating.

 

I think it's workable.  There are at least a couple of different ways it could be handled.  One would be to simply let individual pages get longer (perhaps much longer) as new content is added. The page numbers would still serve as internal markers that could be used in references - they would just get a bit further a apart over time. Another might be to subdivide pages as they expand.  So, if page 247 is dramatically expanded, perhaps it could be broken up into 247.1, 247.2, 247.3, etc. Old references to page 247 would still be relevant.

Posts 3763
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 7:42 AM

How likely is it that scholarly commentaries get expanded ad repetitum? I would think that it would be no different than when standard commentaries get revised. I mean, perhaps I missed something, but EEC volumes are not supposed to be like the Lexham dictionary, constantly updated and expanded, right?

Posts 1080
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 8:07 AM

Francis:

How likely is it that scholarly commentaries get expanded ad repetitum? I would think that it would be no different than when standard commentaries get revised. I mean, perhaps I missed something, but EEC volumes are not supposed to be like the Lexham dictionary, constantly updated and expanded, right?

I wouldn't think it's very likely. My only point was that even if we think it could happen, having page numbers would still be useful for those of us who have to footnote the things we say.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 8:14 AM

Francis:

How likely is it that scholarly commentaries get expanded ad repetitum? I would think that it would be no different than when standard commentaries get revised. I mean, perhaps I missed something, but EEC volumes are not supposed to be like the Lexham dictionary, constantly updated and expanded, right?

I don't expect content to be added to or continually updated, but there certainly have been some updates after the fact. Here's one example: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/71023/494621.aspx#494621 

Posts 1080
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 8:20 AM


Mark Barnes:

Francis:

How likely is it that scholarly commentaries get expanded ad repetitum? I would think that it would be no different than when standard commentaries get revised. I mean, perhaps I missed something, but EEC volumes are not supposed to be like the Lexham dictionary, constantly updated and expanded, right?

I don't expect content to be added to or continually updated, but there certainly have been some updates after the fact. Here's one example: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/71023/494621.aspx#494621 


That's actually pretty cool. But it also raises the question of whether there's an edition number or publication date that gets bumped each time it's updated. Otherwise it's going to be difficult to know which version is under consideration when the work is cited.

 

 

Posts 489
Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2015 8:38 AM

André Kamphuis:
The EEC is a stellar series, and we should be excited about it. But I'm afraid I've lost my initial excitement and keep wondering whether I made the right choice to purchase the whole series, or not. 

That has been my thoughts long before this. I have appreciated what I have received, but was too trusting that the series would progress as originally projected. I am not angered that others are receiving this great deal, but have already come to the realization that this series may never be completed. Dates keep being pushed back, and the last I checked, there are several volumes that do not even have a prospective author listed.  It was a major purchase for me, and I have been disappointed. I still hope to receive some more volumes, but would never pay in advance like that again for anything from Logos.

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