What is happening with Logos' Pricing?!

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Posts 325
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2015 9:51 PM

What is happening with Logos Pricing?

I own the Biblical Language Bundle/Package, except 4 titles. Total value of the missing titles is 138.50 euro.
Logos gives me a Special Price for NO LESS THAN 532.82 euro!! See screenshot below. Anyone else with a similar issue?

How gracious. This is my second pricing issue with Logos Angry. The first being charged twice for an order that didn't disappear from my cart.

 

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 19 2015 11:08 PM

Michel Pauw:
I own the Biblical Language Bundle/Package, except 4 titles. Total value of the missing titles is 138.50 euro.
Logos gives me a Special Price for NO LESS THAN 532.82 euro!! See screenshot below. Anyone else with a similar issue?

IIRC The Biblical Languages Package is only available through the academic discount program (problem 1) and does NOT have dynamic pricing (problem 2), which is why you're seeing what you're seeing.

FWIW If you know you're going to purchase multiple packages/bundles including some that don't have dynamic pricing, then by all means purchase those first.

Posts 325
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2015 1:24 AM

Besides the fact that I do use the academic discount program, I then have two questions:

  1. why does dynamic pricing not apply?!
  2. how can it be that a friend of mine has to pay less for the bundle, even though he owns nearly nothing from that bundle?!
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2015 1:37 AM

I think for that base package you have to just contact sales to get the dynamic pricing. Not sure why it's not available online.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2015 1:45 AM

Michel Pauw:
why does dynamic pricing not apply?!

I think this is the only base package where dynamic pricing doesn't apply (and that it doesn't, Logos has confirmed here in the forums sometimes). It may be that Logos only managed to get the publishers for this package on board by conceding to them that it only would be sold to the academic program and that no dynamic pricing would be given. That is my speculation, given that it makes no sense to not offer this to all customers who want it and that dynamic pricing is used for the other packages.

Michel Pauw:
how can it be that a friend of mine has to pay less for the bundle, even though he owns nearly nothing from that bundle?!
 

Since dynamic pricing does not apply, the fact how much one owns previously is irrevant. However, as far as I read (I'm not in academic program myself), the academic discount is not equal for all, but may be different - e.g. whether the institution requires the use of Logos or not.

Since you own all but four products, it seems best to ask a Logos salesperson to make you an individual special offer for the four books (or those you want) and go from there.  

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2015 2:54 AM

Michel, this issue has come up a number of times since the launch of L6.  The decision was made by FL that Biblical Languages is intended only for students purchasing a first-time base package.  I don't see them changing this policy since many of us have raised the issue over the past 8 months.

Here is the very first thread to deal with the issue: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/92976/650034.aspx#650034

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2015 3:33 AM

I do think that whether the package was first put together with special agreements with the publishers or with a certain policy/idea in mind that account for the present constraints, it is not a good model.

This package has become an odd ball. Those who are interested in it and could benefit from it but have already invested in Logos resources are turned away by the lack of dynamic pricing. I am certainly in that category. Yet, biblical languages are certainly worth a package of their own (be it only as an alternative to Bibleworks). As it is, the Greek and Hebrew topical bundles and other collections offer patch-up alternatives, but if these were sufficiently apt alternatives, this topic would not keep on coming back on the forums as regularly as it does. One question I have is whether this model has proved profitable: how many sales does this package generate as compared to other packages?

Bottom-line: I am of the opinion that it may be worthwhile for FL to reconsider what they have done with this package and perhaps redesign it altogether so as to make it behave more like other base packages.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2015 4:41 AM

I've got quite a stash of overlapping (twice purchased) resources as well, because of how packages work. I just wish I could divest some of it.

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 21 2015 10:19 AM

I would talk to your sales rep or just purchase the separate items and be done with it. The other option is to look at other base packages that include these resources and go for one of those if the math works out better. Languages are, after all, just one group of pieces in the biblical puzzle. Building your library is important to the strength of your Logos investment.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 21 2015 10:28 AM

mab, I think your suggestion misses the point (or perhaps I am missing yours). The point of focused collections is precisely to acquire a number of resources at a better price than if they were bought individually. So buying individual resources as opposed to a language collection is not the solution I would be looking for. And while what you say about broader interests is generally true, it would be the same as telling someone interested in Reformed resources: buy individual Reformed (or whatever tradition) books or packages that have some Reformed resources. The point of the Reformed based packages is to group together what would be of interest to those who have a special interest in these. Likewise, the point of the language package is to provide a strong collection of tools for those who need a specialized language library (whatever else they may otherwise put in their library).

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 21 2015 11:22 AM

Francis:
mab, I think your suggestion misses the point (or perhaps I am missing yours).

I agree with you. Yet the OP's problem has come after the fact of purchasing some of the resources instead of going into the game first. FL clearly has a burden developed from their agreement with the publishers in offering OL. I never had the opportunity to get OL, but I managed to complete it via a couple of sales. So I just want to encourage the OP not to be sidetracked.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 325
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2015 4:59 AM

It might be easy to find another way to get these resources, but that's not my issue.
My underlying concern is: can I trust the pricing method of Logos?

Remember:

  • I own the whole package, except 4 titles and my 'exclusive' price is 532,82 euro (ca. $ 605)
  • my friend has nearly nothing from this package and his price is $ 374,98! (see file attached)

I can't see the logic of this pricing at all.

3652.Biblical Languages - Logos Bible Software.pdf

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2015 5:33 AM

Michel Pauw:

My underlying concern is: can I trust the pricing method of Logos?

Remember:

  • I own the whole package, except 4 titles and my 'exclusive' price is 532,82 euro (ca. $ 605)
  • my friend has nearly nothing from this package and his price is $ 374,98! (see file attached)

I can't see the logic of this pricing at all.

3652.Biblical Languages - Logos Bible Software.pdf

Michel,

maybe I wasn't clear above. So let me retry to clarify this:

  • Biblical Languages is not indicative of the overall "pricing of Logos" in no aspect whatsoever since it's a unique package which follows a pricing and distribution strategy that exists for no other Logos product or bundle in this way. However, it seems that what you see is consistent with what is to be expected, so the technical pricing algorithms on logos.com seem to follow what Faithlife the company has stated about academic pricing in general and this package in particular.

  • There is no 'dynamic pricing' on Biblical Languages so it is completely and utterly irrelevant what number, percentage or amount of its content you currently own. Everybody sees either the full price or their academic rebate price.

  • The differences in pricing for this product exist due to various levels of academic pricing. This package has a list price of $749.95 (EUR 662.79). It seems your friend gets a 50% academic discount and thus pays $374.98 (maybe this is because his/her academic institution requires Logos, is on a list of 50%-discount-seminaries, or some other reason potentially including having a call with Faithlife Academic Sales and convincing them) while you get a 20% academic discount - which probably will affect your academic pricing on other resources as well.

If you feel that you are in the exact same circumstance as your friend, call Academic Sales and ask them to reconsider your discount percentage. They should be able to explain to you any issues with Logos pricing.

Hope this helps,

Mick 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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Michael Meiser (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2015 3:11 PM

NB.Mick:

  • There is no 'dynamic pricing' on Biblical Languages so it is completely and utterly irrelevant what number, percentage or amount of its content you currently own. Everybody sees either the full price or their academic rebate price.

  • The differences in pricing for this product exist due to various levels of academic pricing. This package has a list price of $749.95 (EUR 662.79). It seems your friend gets a 50% academic discount and thus pays $374.98 (maybe this is because his/her academic institution requires Logos, is on a list of 50%-discount-seminaries, or some other reason potentially including having a call with Faithlife Academic Sales and convincing them) while you get a 20% academic discount - which probably will affect your academic pricing on other resources as well.

Mick answered this right on. The price your friend is seeing is a special rate that he/she is receiving through a relationship that Faithlife has with their school. I believe the price that you are seeing is our academic discount that we grant to students even if we do not have a current active relationship with the school. If this is in error, please let the academic sales team know either by phone or email. If you would like to see your school receive better discounts, please communicate with the faculty or administration at your school to get in touch with Faithlife's Academic Sales Team.

On another note, the Biblical Languages package is a bit of a rare bird. It does not have dynamic pricing like the other base package options. If the pricing is too high for the resources that you want in that package, I would recommend buying them separately on logos.com. This will often provide you with exactly what you want at a lower price point. There is also a very strong chance that some of these additional titles will have academic pricing for you as well! =)

I hope this helps to clarify a bit. Sorry for the confusion on this.

Mike Meiser

Faithlife Academic Program Manager

Free Logos Tutorials on YouTube: Digital Bible Study Made Easy

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Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2015 9:31 PM

L5 Biblical Languages was dynamically priced since I snagged a ton of resources cheap when I added it ontop of L5 Platinum. L6 Biblical Languages currently isn't dynamically priced, and I do laugh when I see the price. I guess the best thing for me is go to Diamond or purchase the two resources I'd be missing from it separately.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 325
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2015 9:52 PM

Thank you, Mick! That clarifies much.

I was aware of Academic Pricing.
I was aware of Dynamic Pricing.
I was NOT aware of Dynamic Academic Pricing.

It still feels a bit arbitrary to me, but at least now I see how it works.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2015 9:03 AM

You get dynamic or academic. There is no combination. well most of the time. it IS arbitrary.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2015 12:30 PM

abondservant:

You get dynamic or academic. There is no combination. well most of the time. it IS arbitrary.

I am not sure this is right. I am on the academic pricing and I get dynamic pricing most of the time. There is no dynamic pricing on the biblical languages package though.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2015 12:37 PM

Francis:

abondservant:

You get dynamic or academic. There is no combination. well most of the time. it IS arbitrary.

I am not sure this is right. I am on the academic pricing and I get dynamic pricing most of the time. There is no dynamic pricing on the biblical languages package though.



That is true, we do get dynamic most of the time. HOWEVER, if normal price minus the titles you own is less expensive than academic then you get dynamic, otherwise you get the academic price. Would be interesting to see if you still end up with the academic restrictions when you purchase titles through dynamic pricing.


IE if a set of 3 books costs 30$ normally, and you own one of the books, and each book is priced at 10$ within the set (just to keep the math easy), then your dynamic price would be 20$. However you are also an academic student, and the academic price for the set is 21$ or 7$ each title, you would not have the opportunity to buy at 14$ like one would expect, most of the time they sell you the titles at 20$ citing that as being the best deal.

Nearly always (with the occasional exception) the best deal you will get is 20$. If the publisher is willing to sell the titles at 7$ each, then it shouldn't be a big deal to sell the bundle at 14$. But this, as I understand it, is not the deal we get.

Tabletalk magazine is a good example. the full set with academic pricing costs less than would my dynamic price. The net result is that were I to buy the whole set, I'd have to re-purchase some 30-50 titles that I already own. No one has to buy any title twice, unless you're on academic discount, then sometimes you do.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 325
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2015 7:59 PM

What I actually meant with 'Dynamic Academic Pricing' is just that Academic Pricing seems to be Dynamic in the sense that it is different for different people / institutions.

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