New Features: Narrative Character Maps (Vol 2)

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Jacob Cerone | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015 8:11 AM

What is it?

Narrative Character Maps present the Bible’s familiar story arcs with a new visual perspective that makes sense of complex interweaving narratives. Color-coded character lines elegantly present the geographic location of key players through time.

How does it work? 

Trace the missionary journey’s of Paul and other early church leaders in the first century. Rediscover the narrative of Ruth, Naomi, Boaz, and Orpah with a vibrant display of God’s faithfulness. Easily keep track of David’s life as it connects with the lives of Saul, Jonathan, Absalom, and other characters. The important events in each narrative link to the Bible Factbook—where you’ll find family trees, maps, and other media drawn from your digital library. Narrative Character Maps revitalize your understanding of familiar Bible stories. Volume 2 adds maps of Abraham, Isaac and the events depicted in 1 Samuel.

Posts 1562
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 4:50 AM

Are there any video tutorials that explain how to use/read these Narrative Character Maps? I have yet to spend much time in them do to other study restrictions, but they appear to be very helpful on a macro level. 

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 5:38 AM

There is some information about how to read them at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/92818/643948.aspx#643948 

Posts 53
Tim Bahula | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 6:06 AM

Really disappointed to see that this isn't being rolled out as an update to that Narrative Character Maps in Logos 6! I bought the upgrade in part because of the exciting new features, and found that Narrative Character Maps had a paltry 5 maps for the entire Bible.

Posts 1562
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 6:49 AM

Graham Criddle:

There is some information about how to read them at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/92818/643948.aspx#643948 

Thanks Graham!

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 1504
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 7:30 AM

Whenever I use these (both the new ones and the L6 ones), I get the impression that the UI isn't really finished, and maybe is even "broken" - for example, when I hover over the map, grey columns appear. I'm guessing each of those is supposed to represent one event. Occasionally, clicking on those will select an event on the bottom pane and show that to me. More often, clicking does nothing. And, more often still, clicking on one of the grey bars just jumps the map around somewhat randomly, oftentimes even moving the map off the screen, and then bringing it back, but not selecting an event. Very strange.

I would love to see those navigation issues fixed, and then a clearer representation of the events and how they correspond to the map. For example, a simple thing that could help would be to display a popup of the corresponding event name as you hover your mouse over the map, and/or show some sort of a timeline of events on the bottom that corresponds to the map.

The one part of the UI that does work well is the Prev and Next buttons. Using the Maps with those is helpful.

Posts 1393
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 7:39 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
when I hover over the map, grey columns appear. I'm guessing each of those is supposed to represent one event. Occasionally, clicking on those will select an event on the bottom pane and show that to me. More often, clicking does nothing. And, more often still, clicking on one of the grey bars just jumps the map around somewhat randomly, oftentimes even moving the map off the screen, and then bringing it back, but not selecting an event. Very strange.

I noticed that too and thought it was user error. Guess not Wink

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 7:48 AM

I love these charts.

Fr Devin Roza:
when I hover over the map, grey columns appear. I'm guessing each of those is supposed to represent one event. Occasionally, clicking on those will select an event on the bottom pane and show that to me. More often, clicking does nothing.

I strongly agree that this doesn't work well. You have to click on a grey event bar, in a blank space, which can sometimes be difficult in busy sections. I wish the bar was extended or that there was a bordering bar along the top or bottom that highlighted as you moved the mouse along it. Also, wish the events in the bottom pane highlighted as the accompanying event bar in the chart was highlighted.

Fr Devin Roza:
And, more often still, clicking on one of the grey bars just jumps the map around somewhat randomly, oftentimes even moving the map off the screen, and then bringing it back, but not selecting an event.

I have not seen this behavior.

Posts 1393
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 7:51 AM

Randy W. Sims:
I wish the bar was extended or that there was a bordering bar along the top or bottom that highlighted as you moved the mouse along it. Also, wish the events in the bottom pane highlighted as the accompanying event bar in the chart was highlighted.

Yes

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 2062
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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 7:56 AM

Tim Bahula:
Really disappointed to see that this isn't being rolled out as an update to that Narrative Character Maps in Logos 6!

I am a Logos Now subscriber, but I do agree with this. I think Faithlife is being a little to aggressive in moving features to Logos Now in order to provide value to that product. Most of the content for existing features should go to the general release. Or at least do a staged rollout: release to Logos now and then after a cycle or two roll it out in the general release.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 8:06 AM

Randy W. Sims:

Tim Bahula:
Really disappointed to see that this isn't being rolled out as an update to that Narrative Character Maps in Logos 6!

I am a Logos Now subscriber, but I do agree with this. I think Faithlife is being a little to aggressive in moving features to Logos Now in order to provide value to that product. Most of the content for existing features should go to the general release. Or at least do a staged rollout: release to Logos now and then after a cycle or two roll it out in the general release.

There's been no official announcement that there will be a Logos/Verbum 7, but they have announced that Logos Now is "early access" to features as they are being developed. So, supposing there will be a v7, these features, resources, etc. would almost all be the new features in v7. As I understand it, Logos Now is just getting early access to v7, as it's developed. 

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 8:15 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
There's been no official announcement that there will be a Logos/Verbum 7, but they have announced that Logos Now is "early access" to features as they are being developed. So, supposing there will be a v7, these features, resources, etc. would almost all be the new features in v7. As I understand it, Logos Now is just getting early access to v7, as it's developed. 

The problem is that doubt has been cast over these remarks, because what is been said is that some but not all features will be included in Logos 7, plus remarks have been made that content based features could stay in subscription mode.  The 'may's' and the 'might's' effectively eliminate confidence that any desired feature will be in Logos 7 - one day.

IMHO it's time for Faithlife to be more definitive about this, since features are out and people have real questions that are remaining unanswered. What we have now is not very transparent. If for example updates to the data in Narrative Character Maps was definitely announced as being in the next major release, then this issue goes away - you want it now, get Logos Now, Otherwise, wait until Logos 7. If it was announced they would NOT be in the next major release, than what is there now is a teaser to subscription purchase - if you like it, subscribe. Without more definition, no one knows.

Posts 53
Tim Bahula | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 8:22 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

There's been no official announcement that there will be a Logos/Verbum 7, but they have announced that Logos Now is "early access" to features as they are being developed. So, supposing there will be a v7, these features, resources, etc. would almost all be the new features in v7. As I understand it, Logos Now is just getting early access to v7, as it's developed. 

But should I have to wait until Logos 7... or pay a subscription for a Logos 6 feature that shipped with a bare minimum of content?

Posts 1134
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 8:43 AM

Tim, 

I agree with you!  The "bare minimum of content" is a good description.  I guess I just assumed when I first saw it that Logos would add more filler to it as part of L6.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 9:04 AM

Randy W. Sims:

Tim Bahula:
Really disappointed to see that this isn't being rolled out as an update to that Narrative Character Maps in Logos 6!

I am a Logos Now subscriber, but I do agree with this. I think Faithlife is being a little to aggressive in moving features to Logos Now in order to provide value to that product. Most of the content for existing features should go to the general release. Or at least do a staged rollout: release to Logos now and then after a cycle or two roll it out in the general release.

The key thing to keep in mind is that we didn't include future updates as part of the Logos 6 product description. We always specify when future updates will be included for free. Without that explicit statement, you shouldn't expect it. Updates to Atlas were included in Logos 6.

Posts 1134
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 9:28 AM

Phil,

It never occurred to me that Logos had to specifiy to add more content to a feature that was part of an update.  I should have looked for that and didn't.  My bad.  But, my assumption was based on an expectation of Logos putting out content as per a standard of excellence.   Again, my own thinking.  I no longer expect that standard.  Thanks for the explanation.

Posts 53
Tim Bahula | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 9:39 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

The key thing to keep in mind is that we didn't include future updates as part of the Logos 6 product description. We always specify when future updates will be included for free. Without that explicit statement, you shouldn't expect it. Updates to Atlas were included in Logos 6.

Phil, That is a weak argument, one that seems to be a reversal of the long-standing Logos approach. As recently as May 2015, the Logos Blog proclaimed:

Whenever a resource you own is updated, you’ll get that new content—for free—so your Logos library is always becoming more valuable and staying up to date with the latest improvements. —Resource Updates: May 2015

I guess what you are telling us is that Narrative Character Maps is not a resource and I shouldn't have expected it to be updated. I could accept that more readily if weren't for the paucity of narrative character maps released with Logos 6 or if the description then had said something like, "This is a super-cool way of visualizing the Bible, but it only includes 6 visualizations." Even now, the product description leaves too much to the imagination:

Narrative Character Maps present the Bible’s familiar story arcs with a new visual perspective that makes sense of complex interweaving narratives. Color coded character lines elegantly present the geographic location of key players through time.

From that description, you wouldn't expect that you get just 6 of them!

Further, the product description explicitly states that it includes "the missionary journey’s of Paul". That was not included in the Logos 6 release. Was it not natural to assume that updates would be forthcoming?

The bad taste in my mouth hasn't gone away.

Posts 53
Tim Bahula | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 9:40 AM

Juanita:

It never occurred to me that Logos had to specifiy to add more content to a feature that was part of an update.

Agreed.

Posts 53
Tim Bahula | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 9:46 AM

Tim Bahula:

From that description, you wouldn't expect that you get just 6 of them!

Ooops, just 5 of them! I was confusing Narrative Character Maps with Before & After... another complaint!

Posts 1812
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2015 10:35 AM

Tim Bahula:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

The key thing to keep in mind is that we didn't include future updates as part of the Logos 6 product description. We always specify when future updates will be included for free. Without that explicit statement, you shouldn't expect it. Updates to Atlas were included in Logos 6.

Phil, That is a weak argument, one that seems to be a reversal of the long-standing Logos approach. As recently as May 2015, the Logos Blog proclaimed:

Whenever a resource you own is updated, you’ll get that new content—for free—so your Logos library is always becoming more valuable and staying up to date with the latest improvements. —Resource Updates: May 2015

This isn't an argument. It's a statement of fact. :)

It's important to distinguish between a traditional print-book-turned digital resource and an interactive resource or media collection. It's also important to define update. In the case of a typical text-based resource, when we add new links, fix typos, add support for new datatypes, etc., you get those updates for free. That's always been the case, and we have no plans of deviating from that.

In the case of an open-ended resource like Atlas maps, Before and After, Narrative Character Maps, etc., you shouldn't expect that you'll continue to get all new content as part of your original purchase, unless we specify that future content will be included, as we did with Atlas. I understand why you'd think that. And I'm not faulting you for doing so. I'm just explaining our thinking and why we're treating this kind of content and these kinds of "updates" differently.

Tim Bahula:

I guess what you are telling us is that Narrative Character Maps is not a resource and I shouldn't have expected it to be updated.

Narrative Character Maps, vol. 1 is a resource, and Narrative Character Maps, vol. 2 is a new resource. You will get any updates we make to vol. 1 for free.

Tim Bahula:

I could accept that more readily if weren't for the paucity of narrative character maps released with Logos 6 or if the description then had said something like, "This is a super-cool way of visualizing the Bible, but it only includes 6 visualizations." Even now, the product description leaves too much to the imagination:

Narrative Character Maps present the Bible’s familiar story arcs with a new visual perspective that makes sense of complex interweaving narratives. Color coded character lines elegantly present the geographic location of key players through time.

From that description, you wouldn't expect that you get just 6 of them!

I agree that the description should be more specific. I've asked the team to better quantify these kinds of products to properly set user expectations for what they include. I'm sorry the description was vague.

Tim Bahula:

Further, the product description explicitly states that it includes "the missionary journey’s of Paul". That was not included in the Logos 6 release. Was it not natural to assume that updates would be forthcoming?

I'll look into this. It's completely reasonable to expect that the product includes what it describes! :) We'll make sure we deliver on what was promised.

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