Is Logos 4 theologically biased?

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Posts 73
Tom Bartzsch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 6:38 AM

sullivanmp@hotmail.com:

What about the things that pop up on the home page?  I noticed that many of them come from the same resources.  I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".

 

I wondered about this too, then was thinking it's possible that the excerpts are drawn only from "base package" material, rather than independent publisher material. I don't feel like doing a multi-day item by item check against the base package contents, but I would be interested to know if anyone's home page excerpts reflect anything they know to be outside the contents of the various base package resources.

Tom

1 Cor 2:2

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 6:55 AM

sullivanmp@hotmail.com:

Another Questions about "Theological Bias"

What about the things that pop up on the home page?  I noticed that many of them come from the same resources.  I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".

BTW - I agree with everyone else that your Logos library, on a whole, is only as theologically bias as your library.  But I do wonder how the home page is chosen.

i think it is randomly selected . . . from your library!  Smile  (seriously, it is)

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 7:01 AM

sullivanmp@hotmail.com:
What about the things that pop up on the home page?  I noticed that many of them come from the same resources.  I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".

Good question, I too have noticed that none of the resources that I purchased and used do not show up on the home page.

Note 1: I did turned off most of the items on the homepage because they did not interest me.
Note 2: I use v3 99.75% of the time because of the note functionality in v4.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 7:46 AM

Well, as far as the original question, I'm pretty sure that theologically Logos favors Christian theology over Muslim theology. I could be wrong, though Big Smile

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 2:31 PM

JohnFrady:
Does a programmer tell the computer how to respond to a search?

No.

Of course we have our own views, but we're building a library (and a bookstore), not running a teaching ministry. We try to keep the software as neutral as possible, and to license a broad range of resources. Yes, there's a slant towards the 66 book "North American Protestant" canon, and towards books you'd find in American Christian bookstores. But we're working hard to expand our support for not only the larger canon (we have a big advocate for better apocrypha/deuterocanonical materials in-house), but a wider range of resources. And, of course, that initial slant was driven more by where the market is than anything else. We're also slanted towards English materials, for similar reasons. It's not a dislike of other languages, it's just the one we know and the one spoken by most of the customers we can reach. As we get bigger, we (collectively) have more language skills, reach more people, etc. and start offering more stuff.

With 175+ people at Logos, there's lots of diversity of views and opinions.

Now, if I must confess to some actual bias... we tend to offer more of the products that sell.

:-) 

(We believe in the Bible, and we have many opinions about it, many of which are probably wrong. Since we can't be sure which are right and wrong, confident though we may be, we provide tools to help you study it yourself.)

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 2:40 PM

Bob Pritchett:
We're also slanted towards English materials

 

Now that just cracked me up!  Big Smile

 

See, Mr. Joe Miller, I KNEW they were biased, even though I couldn't quite prove it!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2010 4:23 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Yes, there's a slant towards the 66 book "North American Protestant" canon, and towards books you'd find in American Christian bookstores.

How about a reverse interlinear apocrypha, then?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 2:50 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Now, if I must confess to some actual bias... we tend to offer more of the products that sell.

Good choice Cool. Our family's business has the same bias. Wonder why?

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 12:26 AM

Mike Aubrey:
How about a reverse interlinear apocrypha, then?

Now under development.

* English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 12:40 AM

tom collinge:
Good question, I too have noticed that none of the resources that I purchased and used do not show up on the home page.

My purchased resources pop up frequently, e.g. BST, Translators Handbook, Tyndale commentary, etc etc.  Actually I'd prefer it if they didn't as I know I have those and use them regularly.  I've been very grateful when the homepage has drawn my attention to base package resources I didn't know i HAD.  This is not a complaint, it just shows different people have different preferences!  Maybe when we have a direct download of Logos to the braincells, Logos will be able to check other braincells to discover our preferences and adapt its random pop ups to suit them  Wink

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 10:58 AM

nicky crane:

tom collinge:
Good question, I too have noticed that none of the resources that I purchased and used do not show up on the home page.

My purchased resources pop up frequently, e.g. BST, Translators Handbook, Tyndale commentary, etc etc.  Actually I'd prefer it if they didn't as I know I have those and use them regularly.  I've been very grateful when the homepage has drawn my attention to base package resources I didn't know i HAD.  This is not a complaint, it just shows different people have different preferences!  Maybe when we have a direct download of Logos to the braincells, Logos will be able to check other braincells to discover our preferences and adapt its random pop ups to suit them  Wink

One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.

Bohuslav

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 11:00 AM

Bob Pritchett:
We believe in the Bible

Bob, I am really glad to hear that. Smile

Bohuslav

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 11:56 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.

That would apply to the commentaries that pop up on my  homepage.  Though I'd prefer it to point me to resources I'm not using and which I may not know.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 12:40 PM

nicky crane:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.

That would apply to the commentaries that pop up on my  homepage.  Though I'd prefer it to point me to resources I'm not using and which I may not know.

Actually I am not sure how it is. Right now I have excerpt from the Pulpit Commentary on my Home Page. I never use the Pulpit Commentary. The second one is from the New Bible Commentary I have as #1 (one volume) commentary. So I don't know...

Bohuslav

Posts 399
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 1:58 PM

I'd like to say thanks to Bob for coming in and settling the question himself.  

Second of all, what little, and I do mean little, I do know about programming I would think that no matter if you were on L1.5, L2, L3 or L4 or L24 that a database is what it is.  If you're searching an individual Bible or book (seen the same way by the engine), you'd come up with the results of either a hit or a miss.  I don't know how you can program bias into searching the Bible.  

For example, in my personal study and life, I've probably read the Bible through about 12 times (20 years of life as a Christian) and there are, of course, some things that I am much more aquatinted with than others; I am more aquatinted with Philippians than I am Song of Soloman, for example.  

I've had verses which I knew in my head were said "this way" and I mean I KNEW it was said just like that image I had in my mind.  But, when I went to Logos, I couldn't even find one word of it.  When I finally did find the verse(s) I was looking for, I would scratch my head thinking "from where in the world did I get those words and structure?".  Logos has humbled me and reminded me at just how limited and sorry the human mind really is when it comes to memory.  

In reflection, I think, sadly, our theology get's like that last paragraph, too.  The one time I can remember what I had fooled myself into thinking, it was an eschatological verse and concept.  I believe we think about our theories more than we do the verses, sometimes, and they become muddled.  

The database doesn't do this.  It is a "on or off," a "yes or no," and a "1 or a 0."

Wilson Hines

Posts 255
Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 1 2010 11:53 AM

I can tell the OP that Logos may feel biased at times in searches, but searching can bias itself easily if you are not careful.  Take this for instance:

1)  You search an area that only Catholic resources address, and perhaps a few conservative resources (i.e. transubstantiation).  You may feel like the search is biased towards Catholic theology, but really is not since this area is not addressed often by conservative resources.

2)  You search a broad area, but your library has more liberal resources (typical of a Logos package IMO) than conservative, so you will get what is possibly felt is a liberally weighted response.

I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package, but selecting a package or individual resources is a whole other ball game and analysis all together.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 2 2010 1:37 AM

Pat Flanakin:
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package,

Just to put things in perspective I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the conservative resources that comes with a typical Logos package,Smile My point, as well as yours Pat, is that the bias in packages is in the eyes of the beholder. It is the additional purchases you make that brings the resources into balance.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 2 2010 4:16 AM

MJ. Smith:

Pat Flanakin:
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package,

Just to put things in perspective I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the conservative resources that comes with a typical Logos package,Smile My point, as well as yours Pat, is that the bias in packages is in the eyes of the beholder. It is the additional purchases you make that brings the resources into balance.

MJ, you beat me in responding to Pat's post.  I too often get a bunch of junk answers because of all the conservative resources. Smile 

Posts 31
Luther Locklin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2010 11:34 AM

I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal.  I'm so new at this that when I don't understand something in the bible (and I usually read the same thing in the ESV, NRSV, KJV and NIV and sometimes NLT to try to understand it (most recently studying Romans 7 and 8), I have trouble figuring out which commentary will give me a biblical, even handed, understandable explanation.  I finally just decided not to understand foreknowledge and election and move on.Confused

I've been using Logos heavily for about 3 years and it's a wonderful tool.  If it's biased they've put it by me.

Luther

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2010 12:53 PM

Luther Locklin:
I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal.

Both of those terms ("liberal" & "conservative") are loaded and any preconceptions you may have on their usage will dictate what answers you get to your questions and how you will handle those answers.

In short I would say
"Liberal" resources are willing to explore different trains of thought and interpretations that go beyond or contrary to the status quo.
"Conservative" resources will stay mainstream usually reserving dogma to an internal textual basis.

It depends a lot on your view on the inspiration of scripture.

I enjoy reading both types of resources. But it makes the most sense to me to read an adherent's take on things before reading a critic's (ie a Rabbi's take on things in Judaism, a Priest's take on things in Catholicism, a Pentecostal's on his own, etc.) Critics can frequently be dishonest in their representation of their target's beliefs.

It is also helpful to read those contrary to your own beliefs. It will help you sharpen your defenses or possibly change your incorrect preconceptions! Heaven forbid you be mistaken in some doctrine. Surprise

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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