Some newbie help: it really *is* all Greek to me...

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Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:57 AM

Hey folks! I've just upgraded to Scholar's Edition from a "cobled-together" version of Logos which I'd accumulated over the years... so I'm seeing the interlinear stuff for the first time. Since I don't speak Greek, this will obviously be of great use to me... if I can only understand what it is I'm seeing! Tongue Tied I looked on the website for help but didn't see much as it sort of "assumes knowledge".

So what I see is my bible text on top, with below that, the following categories:

Surface, MSS, MSS Trl, Lemma, Lemma Trl, Morph, Strong's, Louw.

I guess it would help, to begin with, if someone would tell me what all the above stand for (aside from Strong's... even I know that! Big Smile  )

So what are these categories and how do they help me? Can I do anything with them to find out, for instance, about the types of manuscripts that were used for each translation?

Thanks in advance, o founts of information!

 

 

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:23 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:

So what I see is my bible text on top, with below that, the following categories:

Surface, MSS, MSS Trl, Lemma, Lemma Trl, Morph, Strong's, Louw.

I guess it would help, to begin with, if someone would tell me what all the above stand for (aside from Strong's... even I know that! Big Smile  )

So what are these categories and how do they help me? Can I do anything with them to find out, for instance, about the types of manuscripts that were used for each translation?

Thanks in advance, o founts of information!


Carmen,

Very exciting isn't it?

It's hard starting out with no Greek knowledge, but it can be learned, not enough to have you be a scholar or translate Greek, but you can get where you're familiar enough so that many discussions of language, syntax, and grammar don't fly right over your head...

 

On the interlinear pane....the categories are:

Surface,
This is the surface text that you see in English

MSS,
This is the manuscript text. Greek words change meaning based on prefixes and suffixes so this is the full word itself and not just the "root" of the word.

MSS Trl,
This is the same as above but "transliterated" which means that English letters represent their Greek counterparts.

Lemma,
This is a fancy way of saying "this is what you'll find in the Greek Lexicon when you look a word up" It's the root word.

Lemma Trl,
Lemma represented using English letters

Morph,
A word's morphology means what it functions as, noun, verb, adjective, and the other elements such as case, number, gender...etc.

Strong's,

Louw.
This is a word's "Louw-Nida" number. This is very helpful. All words are categorized according to word-family's and meanings/related meanings...click the link and check it out.

 

If you want to get your feet wet I'd recommend a book by Bill Mounce called "Greek for the rest of us" which is just right for someone who is just starting out...nothing fancy, no memorizing, but it will help a lot.

Anything else just ask... Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:31 AM

Let's start with a right click down in the interlinear layer, it shows all the various kinds of information in the interlinear tagging.

Manuscript (MSS): The form of the word as it appears in the Greek/Hebrew manuscripts
Manuscript Transliterated (MSS Trl): The sounds of the MSS form using Latin characters
Lemma: The dictionary/root form of the the MSS word
Lemma Transliterated: The sounds of the Lemma form using Latin characters.
Strongs: No need
Louw-Nida #: This is a semantic domain tied to the lexicon by Louw and Nida, it's in your library. Basically it's a way of categorizing words into similar uses, it's very helpful but probably a bit confusing for you right now. Ignore it until you have a chance to learn about it.

You will probably be most interested in the Lemma line as it gives you an easy way to look up the Hebrew/Greek forms of the words behind the English translations. Right click on the word and select lemma on the right side. There will be a list of Lexicons on your system that you can open to read definitions.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:37 AM

Surface  = Surface text  or top line of interlinear = English bible text

MSS = Manuscript text = Greek text

MSS Trl = Manuscript transliterated

Lemma = dictionary word = word from which the manuscript is derived

Lemma Trl = lemma transliterated

Morph = Morphological code

Strong's = Strong's number

Louw. = Louw-Nida domain  = a classification of meanings of the New Testament vocabulary eg. a lemma may have 4 different meanings so each meaning is assigned to a different LN domain

Dave
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Posts 584
Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:38 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:

So what I see is my bible text on top, with below that, the following categories:

Surface, MSS, MSS Trl, Lemma, Lemma Trl, Morph, Strong's, Louw.

Carmen

You can choose which of these you want to see -- right click on one of these labels and uncheck the ones you don't want.

πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε

Posts 569
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 5:06 AM

Wow folks... thanks for all this... I'll start to pook around more with what you've told me!

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 5:19 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
Wow folks... thanks for all this... I'll start to pook around more with what you've told me!

Carmen,

don't let us scare you off...we're not stalkers Big Smile although this particular thread was like in one of those old movies where the woman pulls out a cigarette and ten men are scrambling to light it for her... Embarrassed

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 3747
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:24 AM

Dave Hooton:

Surface  = Surface text  or top line of interlinear = English bible text

MSS = Manuscript text = Greek text

MSS Trl = Manuscript transliterated

Lemma = dictionary word = word from which the manuscript is derived

Lemma Trl = lemma transliterated

Morph = Morphological code

Strong's = Strong's number

Louw. = Louw-Nida domain  = a classification of meanings of the New Testament vocabulary eg. a lemma may have 4 different meanings so each meaning is assigned to a different LN domain

Hi Dave,

Thanks for this! If it isn't in the wiki, it's sure a candidate... perhaps under a banner of something like 'definitions' or 'common terms explained'?

Thanks for all you do for us!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:29 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
Wow folks... thanks for all this... I'll start to pook around more with what you've told me!
At some point in your study, you may want to get a copy of this new tool that is in pre-publication from Logos  http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:08 AM

Joe Miller:

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
Wow folks... thanks for all this... I'll start to pook around more with what you've told me!
At some point in your study, you may want to get a copy of this new tool that is in pre-publication from Logos  http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876

I am looking forward to this~!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:10 AM

Robert Pavich:
like in one of those old movies where the woman pulls out a cigarette and ten men are scrambling to light it for her... Embarrassed

 

yeah, man, i have read about those kind of movies.  did you find out about them in some kind of archive, or history lesson?  Stick out tongue

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:30 AM

Dan DeVilder:
yeah, man, i have read about those kind of movies.  did you find out about them in some kind of archive, or history lesson?  Stick out tongue

Dan, since I'm a Christian that means that I don't own a TV nor do I watch movies...both are of the Devil...so yes....I heard about it from a friend of a friend... Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:46 AM

don't let us scare you off...we're not stalkers Big Smile although this particular thread was like in one of those old movies where the woman pulls out a cigarette and ten men are scrambling to light it for her... Embarrassed

Robert Pavich:

Dan DeVilder:
yeah, man, i have read about those kind of movies.  did you find out about them in some kind of archive, or history lesson?  Stick out tongue

Dan, since I'm a Christian that means that I don't own a TV nor do I watch movies...both are of the Devil...so yes....I heard about it from a friend of a friend... Big Smile

Please use discretion.

 

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 569
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 3:28 AM

Hey Robert! Thanks for the input about not being stalkers... I had a chuckle at that image you put there about a crowd of men around a lady... and an even bigger chuckle at the image of your truly being called a lady at all (--> insert Carmen's modest blush here <-- )Big Smile

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 3:30 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
Hey Robert! Thanks for the input about not being stalkers... I had a chuckle at that image you put there about a crowd of men around a lady... and an even bigger chuckle at the image of your truly being called a lady at all (--> insert Carmen's modest blush here <-- )Big Smile

 

Glad to have been of service Yes

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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