El Capitan beta Can't open Logos 6

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This post has 72 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 73
Chuck Lindsey | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 9 2015 4:10 PM

Obviously didn't check before I installed to see if it was compatible. I assumed Yosemite and El Cap were probably close enough in versions that it would be no trouble. 

That said, now I can't get Logos 6 to open.

Anyone have an idea when we might see a Logos version that will open on El Cap? Or am I just better off reinstalling Yosemite?

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Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 4:28 PM

If you need logos, you're better off reinstalling Yosemite

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 38
Pastor Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 4:40 PM

You need to reinstall Yosemite. I posted a warning about El Capitan earlier today, and sent an email to Logos tech support. Unfortunately, tech support read my email as a request for an update, which it was not, rather than a hope that they would send out an email warning Mac users NOT to upgrade to El Capitan at this time. 

Posts 16
Al Jennings | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 7:37 PM

Yeah, I had the same issue. On the first version of El Cap, Logos opened and behaved nicely on one machine and wouldn't open on another. But on the next version (15A216g), it crashes on both my machines.

Posts 1364
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 7:53 PM

I've installed El Cap in a separate partition, and am not installing Logos until there's a beta that works with it.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 73
Chuck Lindsey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 7:58 PM

I just wish I would have seen the warning BEFORE installing! First time I've been bit by the beta bug!

Posts 38
Dee Bulante | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 9:42 PM

Does anyone know if we can uninstall Logos 6 and reinstall it with a future upgrade that works nicely with El Capitan?

Posts 73
Chuck Lindsey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 9:43 PM

I'm sure we can. the trouble arises if you need Logos before that!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 4:36 AM

Dee Bulante:

Does anyone know if we can uninstall Logos 6 and reinstall it with a future upgrade that works nicely with El Capitan?

Faithlife does not support their software on beta versions of operating systems. If you are asking if in the future, when an "El Capitan" friendly version is available, if you will be able to install the new engine and be "good to go"... the answer is probably yes.* If you are asking if you can do so now, or in the near future the answer is no. At this point, if you need Logos running on this computer, your ONLY option is to reinstall Yosemite. Tongue Tied

(* Why "probably" yes? I have no idea if El Capitan did anything to your installation, or if the problem is solely in the engine. If the later, you should probably be able to install a new engine when available.]

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 12
db | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 6:24 AM

Until yesterday, I was using the El Capitan Beta Developer's Edition and installed the public beta version last night. Although I like to try beta versions, usually the public release is significantly more stable. However, whereas Logos worked perfectly in the developer's beta version of OSX, the public beta version of El Capitan crashes Logos at startup. Although it is a $100 fee, shifting to the developer's beta might tide some of us over until the full release in the fall. It's a long shot, but I think that is what I'm going to try...

***FYI: There are several "official" looking comments that say "revert to Yosemite." While it is a pain in the neck that Faithlife software is apparently designed to not run on a beta OSX (funny I never had this problem before, and I've always used the beta program), I would suggest caution in attempting to revert back to Yosemite. I have called applecare about what reverting to Yosemite entails, and it isn't pretty. Essentially, you have to wipe your hard drive in order to return to an older OSX. That's not terribly problematic in itself, especially if you have a time capsule backup of your Yosemite OS saved somewhere. However, if you have Time Capsule on auto-backup then it likely erased the backups that existed before your update while retaining your files. That is, if you check time capsule, it may only go back as far as your update - even if all your files remain in tact. The point being, it is really, really risky to revert back to OSX; and Apple suggested that it was probably a better idea not to do it. According to Apple Care, the issues with apps - as well as many of the beta gliches - will be resolved on their own when the final version is released. So, if you can hold out for two months, then the issue with Logos crashing will likely resolve itself...it's really bothersome that Logos is recommending users revert to Yosemite without addressing the serious risk to a users entire system.

**Editorial remark: I find it absolutely infuriating (insert choice words here) that Logos won't run on a beta OSX, especially since it has in the past. There really is no reason for this (yes, I know there are reasons for it, but none of them are good ones, not least because it leaves customers in the lurch). If Faithlife thinks this is necessary they should have sent a mass e-mail to customers, alerting us that the overpriced software won't run if Apple users update to a public beta. Seriously, I don't know about anyone else, but I personally feel that after paying thousands to use Logos this should not happen!

Posts 620
Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 6:42 AM

The text below is from Apples own Beta Software Agreement. It might be worth reading, especially since everyone participating in the Beta is required to read and agree to the statement.

7.     Precautions for the use of Pre-Release Software.  You understand that to participate in seeds of Pre-Release Software you may need to remove certain pre-loaded, commercial Apple software from your computer and/or device in order to load the Pre-Release Software.  You further understand that once you load such Pre-Release Software onto your computer and/or device, you may be unable to revert back to the pre-loaded, commercial release of the Apple software you were using prior to loading the Pre-Release Software or any earlier release of the Pre-Release Software.  In addition, applications and services you have installed or been using may be unable to run or function in the same manner because of your use of the Pre-Release Software.  YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BY INSTALLING SUCH PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE ON YOUR APPLE-BRANDED COMPUTERS AND/OR DEVICES, THESE COMPUTERS AND DEVICES MAY NOT BE CAPABLE OF BEING RESTORED TO THEIR ORIGINAL CONDITION AND THAT APPLICATIONS AND SERVICES MAY BE AFFECTED BY YOUR USE OF PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE.  FURTHER, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT DATA (INCLUDING DOCUMENTS) FROM SUCH APPLICATIONS OR SERVICES THAT YOU CREATE OR CHANGE WHILE USING THE PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE MAY BE INCAPABLE OF BEING RESTORED OR RECOVERED.  APPLE SHALL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY COSTS, EXPENSES OR OTHER LIABILITIES YOU MAY INCUR AS A RESULT OF YOUR TESTING, INSTALLATION OR USE OF PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY DAMAGE TO ANY EQUIPMENT, SOFTWARE OR DATA OR ANY LOSS OF DATA OR INFORMATION ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF SUCH PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE.  In addition, the Pre-Release Software may contain errors or inaccuracies that could cause failures, corruption or loss of data and/or information from your computer and/or device or from your peripherals (including, without limitation, servers and printers) connected thereto.  Apple strongly encourages you to back-up all data and information on your computer, devices and/or any peripherals prior to your participation in the Beta Program and before any individual seeds.  The Pre-Release Software is not intended for use, and should not be used, in production or business-critical systems.

Syntax Searching Group | Michigan Logos Users | L5 FAQ | OSX 10.10 | 2.4 GHz i5 | 8 GB Ram

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LogosEmployee

David Browning:
**Editorial remark: I find it absolutely infuriating (insert choice words here) that Logos won't run on a beta OSX, especially since it has in the past. There really is no reason for this (yes, I know there are reasons for it, but none of them are good ones, not least because it leaves customers in the lurch). If Faithlife thinks this is necessary they should have sent a mass e-mail to customers, alerting us that the overpriced software won't run if Apple users update to a public beta. Seriously, I don't know about anyone else, but I personally feel that after paying thousands to use Logos this should not happen!

If you're implying that we deliberately coded Logos 6 to not run on a beta OS, then that is a false charge.

When we say "we don't support it", we simply mean "you're on your own". If Apple introduces a change in their public beta that breaks our application (which they did), our customer support team can not help you with that problem, because you're running a pre-release OS.

We recommend not installing pre-release OS versions; or, if you must, install them on a dedicated testing computer/partition.

Posts 275
Bob Soule | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 9:15 AM

Bradley any chance Logos 6.5 will support El Capitan if not what are the plans to support El Capitan? Will you provide support prior to shipping code of El Capitan?

Posts 38
Pastor Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 9:33 AM

Reverting to Yosemite is, in fact, a pain. Here's what I did:

• made sure I had a full backup (you all backup, right?)

• installed Yosemite on an external drive

• booted the computer from that external drive while holding down the Option key, and then booting from Recovery Mode

• erased the internal drive using Disk Utility (better have a backup!)

• run the installation

• forget running Migration Assistant - at least it didn't work for me

• copy over your user folder info

• start installing software

All of this took me, oh, about 5 hours the other night, but I had no choice.

Posts 226
Kurt Trucksess | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 9:37 AM

Bradley - Thanks for your post letting us know what happened to Logos with the El Cap beta.  

I too just discovered Logos does not open with El Cap.  Would you guys be able to estimate when an updated Logos engine would be available that is El Cap compatible?

Appreciate your help.  Guess we are all learning the hard way.  Big Smile

Dr. Kurt Trucksess www.christ2Rculture.com
Posts 38
Pastor Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 9:42 AM

**Editorial remark: I find it absolutely infuriating (insert choice words here) that Logos won't run on a beta OSX, especially since it has in the past. There really is no reason for this (yes, I know there are reasons for it, but none of them are good ones, not least because it leaves customers in the lurch). If Faithlife thinks this is necessary they should have sent a mass e-mail to customers, alerting us that the overpriced software won't run if Apple users update to a public beta. Seriously, I don't know about anyone else, but I personally feel that after paying thousands to use Logos this should not happen!

I, for my part, find it absolutely incredible that anyone would interpret the word "beta" to mean "stable and ready to run for anything you want to do." 

Logos didn't hamstring their own product, for goodness sakes! Apple made changes in the code, which obviously included code that Logos requires to even blink its eyes open and ask for a cup of black coffee. 

Logos is responsible for ensuring that its software runs on the most recent *stable* OS. 

By the way, the Public Beta was released by Apple just the day before as the Developer Beta 3. I'm a developer, and I experienced the crash 24 hours before anyone installing the Public Beta. Developer Betas 1 and 2 ran Logos just fine. I had no trouble for a month. But David, even if Logos was making an attempt to be THAT current with their updates, one day is hardly enough time to update code, generate apps, and get them pushed to users.

So, don't blame Logos. They didn't ambush you.

And don't blame Apple. They don't have an anti-Logos agenda.

And don't blame yourself, either. Just get on with reinstalling things.

Posts 8012
LogosEmployee

Bob Soule:

Bradley any chance Logos 6.5 will support El Capitan if not what are the plans to support El Capitan? Will you provide support prior to shipping code of El Capitan?

I don't yet know the details of why Logos 6 is crashing on El Capitan, so I can't provide an estimate of when it will be fixed, sorry. (Worst-case, which is probably unlikely, it's an OS bug that we can't work around, and we have to wait for Apple to provide a fix.)

We will do everything we can to ensure that the latest stable version of Logos 6 runs on El Capitan when it is released in the fall.

Posts 408
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 1:19 PM

It's important for everyone to remember that a beta is a beta is a beta. It would be a waste of resources for Faithlife to try to make Logos (or any other app) compatible with THIS beta, as we can expect more changes from Apple right up to the time that El Cap is a stable release. Better for Faithlife to keep the focus on being ready for the official release. I have the El Cap beta on its own partition on my Mac. I know the risks. Let the beta play in its own little sandbox. I can find out what works and what doesn't, safely. 

It's the same with Windows 10. I have, just for fun, the Windows 10 Insider version running on a VM on my Mac. Earlier versions didn't play nice with some of their own apps, like Mail. A new beta has fixed that issue. Logos happens to run well on my Windows 10 beta, but it might not have. With a beta, one cannot be sure.  I happen to like these newer betas a lot. A big step up from 8.1. The stable version is due on July 29. 

Edit: There was an update for the El Cap beta available today. It was intended to fox a crash problem seen in some 32-bit applications. I didn't know if it would apply to Logos or not. Logos (or, in my case, Verbum) still crashes. 

Posts 1
David Ould | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 7:01 PM

Bradley, FWIW I think the vast majority of us recognise that this issue has arisen because Apple have changed the way that OS X deals with some stuff and that it's quite clearly out of your control.

Unless, of course, it really is a cunning plot you've hatched together with Apple... Stick out tongue

Posts 12
db | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2015 7:55 PM

A General Response to above posts: Yes, I know what a "beta" version is and what to expect. I too develop apps and have been in the OSX/IOS beta program for a while. To the person who took the time to sift through apple's legalese and find the exact clause that warns users of unforeseen disasters (and helpfully bolded this text so that even I would not miss it): (1) thanks for telling me what I already know, you should work for the huffington post! (2) I'm not sure what you expect me to say...

In any case, just to clarify: I did not think that a beta version would be "entirely stable," seriously, who would think that?! I did take seriously, however, the multiple responses from what looked like a logos rep, who did indicate that "logos policy" was to not run the software in Beta OSX. That has since been corrected by someone who knows better, and I apologize for the irritation. 

To be clear: I was not blaming apple

I do not have any animus toward Logos, which in my opinion is actually the best software of its kind.

I did not think that logos/faithworks "ambushed" me...which is just silly

I did take issue with the notion that "Logos policy" was to not run in Beta OSX, which made no sense and (if true) seemed shady...since it is not, then patience for the golden master of El Capitan seems to be my course. I did speak with Apple Care about reverting after dev beta 1 was released (really buggy), and as a friendly PSA will pass along that they recommend doing that only with great caution - the apple rep suggested that my data would be better served by continuing to wait for updates rather than revert. At the very least, check to see what time capsule has actually saved before reverting...mine will only return to the date of the earliest el capitan dev beta (it was a new macbook pro with latest yosemite).

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