Improve Logos Performance on a PC

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This post has 23 Replies | 3 Followers

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 9 2015 7:31 AM

I review a lot of laptops. I've worked on about five reviews over the last two months for my second job. The current system I'm reviewing is an Acer Aspire E 15 model E5-573G-56RG. Key specs:

  • Intel Core i5 5200U (4th gen)
  • NVIDIA GeForce 940M with 4GB of dedicated VRAM
  • 8GB of DDR3L RAM

That's a pretty spiffy system. They're the best specs of any of the systems I've tested over the last two months andd they're higher than my own two computers that I regularly use. If you look at the list above you'll notice one key spec I left off. Hard Drive.

All of the systems I've reviewed and my two personal computers have SSDs. This current review unit - the Acer E15 - has a 1000GB 5400rpm spinning hard drive.

Logos runs great on all of the other systems. On this Acer it runs like an octagenarian sloth whose imbibed too much strong drink.

Here's the point: GET AN SSD WITH PLENTY OF ROOM if you want decent Logos 6 performance. It's more important than anything else. I've run Logos on 2GB systems, 4GB system (MEMORY). I've run it on Celeron, Intel Core iX, AMD systems. I've run it on systems with integrated graphics and dedicated graphics. None of those things change the speed of the system as much as having an SSD instead of a traditional spinning hard drive.

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 7:53 AM

Thanks for the informed post, Kevin; With the cost of a SSD dropping to a level of affordability that most people that are able to buy a laptop in the 1st place, it would definitely make sense to include one in the specs when shopping. I, personally, would seek to find a laptop that has a secondary HDD slot, although they are becoming harder to find with the emphasis on small, lightweight, and easily carried.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 8:02 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
None of those things change the speed of the system as much as having an SSD instead of a traditional spinning hard drive.

When the best you could get on a notebook was 7200 rpm, upgrading to that was the best thing you could do to improve Logos performance (beyond going from 2GB to 4GB of memory if that's where you started). I am not surprised at your findings, but it is good to hear them coming from someone who has done a significant amount of comparison.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 176
Al Het | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 11:29 AM

Thanks, Kevin.  That is really useful information for buying a new system.

I still wish Logos didn't require such cutting edge technology to work well.  I just ran into another situation where a small church pastor spent his entire expense account on Logos, and now barely uses it because it is so slow on his computer.

I would appreciate it so much if Logos offered a stripped down version that would make their vast language and commentary resources available to people who don't have the means to constantly keep up with cutting edge computer hardware (small church pastors and missionaries).

At any rate, I appreciate the info.

Posts 2834
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 12:18 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:
like an octagenarian sloth whose imbibed too much strong drink

That is worth a re-tweet.  Big Smile

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 180
Linden | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 7:33 PM

Is the need to dedicate SSD space for Logos 6 true for desktops in addition to laptops?

Linden

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 7:39 PM

Linden:

Is the need to dedicate SSD space for Logos 6 true for desktops in addition to laptops?

I would say yes, if dedicated space is required. Basically, the difference between the laptop and the desktop is size and expandability. The same architecture exists.

Posts 180
Linden | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 7:43 PM

I have plenty of space on my SSD but was concerned that Logos would reduce the drive lifespan w/write operations so I installed on the HDD.  Is this something I should be concerned about?

Also, which is cleaner in the long run: uninstall then install on the SSD or using the junction command mentioned in the wiki?

Linden

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 7:43 PM

Linden:

Is the need to dedicate SSD space for Logos 6 true for desktops in addition to laptops?

A SSD will improve performance regardless of the machine. This explanation might be helpful - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 180
Linden | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 8:05 PM

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the link, but I'm well aware of the performance advantages of SSDs.  What I'm not aware of are the amount of write operations Logos does (especially when indexing).  Will running Logos on an SSD appreciably reduce its lifespan?

Linden

Posts 2343
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 8:36 PM

Upgrading RAM to max possible is also a performance booster, and usually very affordable.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 1344
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 8:57 PM

Thanks for this note, Kevin.

Now the question is: Why is Logos so disk-intensive (SSD or HD)?  Especially during index and "prepare library," it constantly reads and writes lots of data from disk drive.  Can't any of that be optimized further? Can't it do a bulk read, do all the processing/indexing in memory (assuming sufficient RAM), and then do a bulk write to disk?

Just thinking out loud.

Peter

Posts 778
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 9 2015 9:54 PM

Linden:

Will running Logos on an SSD appreciably reduce its lifespan?

Generally speaking, the answer is 'no.'  Modern SSDs are designed to have thousands of read/writes to each memory cell over the lifetime of the SSD.  There are lots of studies of 'lifetime' for an SSD based on continually writing/reading/erasing every memory cell ... just search the internet.  The results of how long an SSD will last under those kind of brutal circumstances will surprise you.  Your use of Logos, even heavy use, will be far less than these studies.  BUT, of course, there is always the caveat that YMMV depending on exactly what one means by 'appreciably'.

Of course, if you are using a very small SSD with little extra room, you should not be surprised to see a shorter lifetime.  Additionally, the performance (ie, speed) will be greatly hampered.  Generally, you should have at least 25% of extra space.

For maximum io speed and transfers, consider the following:

1) Realize that not all SSDs are created equal - there are fast ones and there are slower ones.  Do your homework before you buy.

2) Realize that the limits of the sata3 interface are close to being maxed out by a high quality, high speed, modern SSD.

3)  Higher speeds and data transfers can be obtained by using two SSDs in a Raid 0 configuration via sata3.

4) PCI-e SSDs are very fast - faster than sata -and especially if they use NVMe controller interface.  

5)  Intel and Micron recently announced a brand new type of 3D memory called xPoint (aka, Cross Point) which is significantly faster and more robust than the nand memory used in most of the current consumer SSDs.  Intel says they will have a new SSD (called Optane) based on this technology hitting the market in 2016.   http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-preps-ssd-based-on-3d-xpoint-memory.html   

6)  Remember to keep your SSD 'optimized' by using TRIM.  Basically, TRIM is an operation that performs housekeeping that lets the SSD know that it is okay to write to a previously used memory cell.  In Windows 8 or 10 it can be accessed by the old Defragmenter utility or by selecting 'Optimize' in the drive properties.  Some SSDs run their own Optimize routines in software that comes with the drive - Intel SSDs, for example.  I TRIM my SSDs about once per week under normal use.  I don't know what Apple uses specifically, but it will be equivalent to TRIM.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 5:20 AM

Linden:
What I'm not aware of are the amount of write operations Logos does (especially when indexing).  Will running Logos on an SSD appreciably reduce its lifespan?

JRS has done a fine job at answering this question. From personal experience I found that 2 SSDs failed on me since using Logos so I now buy an extended warranty on them and also buy a high quality one.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 180
Linden | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 5:53 AM

Decided to uninstall & reinstall on the SSD.  Around 9GB download and reindex which just completed. Will try out tonight and see if/how performance differs.

Linden

Posts 3286
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 6:24 AM

I went with a Microsoft Surface Pro and never regretted it.  It was a little pricey but having my library on a tablet/laptop that is fast is unbeatable.  My only recommendation is going with an i5 or higher as the i3's can be slow.

Posts 2834
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 7:34 AM

JRS:
Realize that not all SSDs are created equal - there are fast ones and there are slower ones.  Do your homework before you buy.

How 'bout some specifics, right here, right now?

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2834
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 7:35 AM

JRS:
in a Raid 0 configuration

I assume this means there will be no more bugs in Logos, since Raid "kills bugs dead."

Big Smile

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 778
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 8:25 AM

Doc B:

JRS:
Realize that not all SSDs are created equal - there are fast ones and there are slower ones.  Do your homework before you buy.

How 'bout some specifics, right here, right now?

Here you go!  You can browse various SSD benchmarks to your heart's delight at the following website ... 

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/SSD15/1186 

EDIT:  I should add that there is a 'point of diminishing returns' when it comes to SSD speed.  These things are becoming sooo fast that at some point (unless you are moving massive amounts of data like a server) the greater speeds really accomplish very little. 

"Ooooh, I just spent a skabillion dollars to get the absolutely fastest SSD known to man!" 

"Oh really?  So just what are you planning to do with the hundreds of nanoseconds you've saved over the past year?" 

You get the idea.  Where the point of diminishing return kicks in is entirely up to you.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 2834
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 10 2015 8:29 AM

JRS:
Here you go!  You can browse various SSD benchmarks to your heart's delight at the following website ... 

That's awesome, or would be, if I could understand it. No speakie-de-inglais. And I'm old. I can't even set my Betamax to tape a show anymore.

Just tell me which one (or two or three) to buy.

Big Smile

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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