EBNE Shipping 10/6 - More detail, please!

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 3:00 PM

Mike Pettit:

Dan Francis:

Mike Pettit:

I find it a bit disappointing, no entries for Muggletonians or Fifth Monarchy Men and for Bede it mentions some of his books but they are not linked.

This is Britannica, if they have no entry FL cannot add it and it was stated earlier on internal links to the Encyclopedia would be there but not external ones, at least at first. 

-Dan

Britannica does have entries, but they have been excluded from the cut down version that FL sells. This was one of the worries which has sadly materialised. 

That is disappointing, and internal links seem missing now... I opened for example the article on Hank Aaron, and Babe Ruth was not linked. I know we were told all links would not be there at first, but this seems a very poor preliminary release if whole articles are missing.

-Dan

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 3:00 PM

Mike Pettit:

I find it a bit disappointing, no entries for Muggletonians or Fifth Monarchy Men and for Bede it mentions some of his books but they are not linked.

Personally I'm not disappointed by that at all. For me the whole benefit of EBNE is to get articles on secular topics that aren't covered anywhere else in my library. For biblical/theological topics you probably already have resources that cover the topic in more depth than EBNE would. For example, there are articles on the Muggletonians in the New International Dictionary of the Christian Church, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, and a lengthy article in Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, Volumes I–XIII. Then there's the Wikipedia tool, or my Dictionary of Christianity and the Bible, of course.

I'm more disappointed that history is generally very poorly served and it's very American (odd for the Encylopaedia Britannica). There's no entry for Caligula, for example. It's very disappointing he's should be pushed out by such notables as Simon Cowell and Roy R. Romer.

Don't get me wrong, I do think this is worth $100. But it will serve Noet users fairly poorly, I think.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 3:22 PM

Mark Barnes:
Personally I'm not disappointed by that at all. For me the whole benefit of EBNE is to get articles on secular topics that aren't covered anywhere else in my library.

As I said I do not expect EBNE to go beyond print/online versions. That said Mike says and I have no reason to doubt him, these articles are in the EB so should be in Noet edition. I too felt like you and was thinking these religious topics would not be in the EB, however I will wait to hear from FL before being too disappointed.

-Dan

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 3:58 PM

Dan Francis:
As I said I do not expect EBNE to go beyond print/online versions. That said Mike says and I have no reason to doubt him, these articles are in the EB so should be in Noet edition. I too felt like you and was thinking these religious topics would not be in the EB, however I will wait to hear from FL before being too disappointed.

The Noet edition was advertised as being a subset of the full edition. I had assumed it would be the subset most useful to those studying the classics, but I was wrong.

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 4:16 PM

Ben Amundgaard:
The initial estimate for the file size is 260 mb

This appears to be the size of the EBNE that i downloaded today.

But you later said that it would be...

Ben Amundgaard:
I should have waited to get better data before giving that stat. It's going to be more like 3 gigs.

Are we to expect a significant update?  Or was your updated size to include all the downloadable media?

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Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 4:49 PM

Yes , I expect more articles and links!

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:03 PM

steve clark:
Are we to expect a significant update?  Or was your updated size to include all the downloadable media?

That is the size of it with all media downloaded.

-Dan

Posts 5290
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:16 PM

Mark Barnes:
The Noet edition was advertised as being a subset of the full edition. I had assumed it would be the subset most useful to those studying the classics, but I was wrong.

I may have missed something but I just reread the product page and see no indication that it was a subset... I mean there possibly are hints.. 19,000 articles maybe a subset but if say there are 30,000 articles how are we to know only a percentage of the articles are included? I fully understand limiting the amount of media and pictures to essential, but not the excising of articles.

-Dan

Posts 5290
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:29 PM

Dan Francis:
say there are 30,000 articles how are we to know only a percentage of the articles are included?

According to the EB iPad APP it has over 80,000 articles, making the the Noet Edition seem more than a little weak, containing less than 1/4 of the articles (possible Faithlife defence is this 80,000 including things like Tabby, see house cat, if there are 61,000 header articles simply directing you to the actual article, that makes sense to only 19,000 articles, but the number seems unlikely to be the case).

-Dan

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:44 PM

There are 40,000 articles in the last print edition, and 100,000 in the last digital edition. I was thinking of the discussion here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/100978.aspx, rather than the product page. 

Posts 536
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 5:46 PM

EBNE videos are now available for IOS Devices.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:48 PM

Mark Barnes:

I'm more disappointed that history is generally very poorly served and it's very American (odd for the Encylopaedia Britannica). There's no entry for Caligula, for example. It's very disappointing he's should be pushed out by such notables as Simon Cowell and Roy R. Romer.

Don't get me wrong, I do think this is worth $100. But it will serve Noet users fairly poorly, I think.

I agree.   I compared it to the Columbia Encyclopedia (CE) which I have in Logos (but which is no longer sold).  The article structure, sentence length, and vocabulary in EBNE indicate that it is aimed more squarely at grade school children than general users (which would be the case if it is a repackaged Compton's).

I think it's funny how an article on church and state starts with President John Kennedy.

EBNE is 4 times as large as CE (275MB vs. 71MB).  Some of that come from the pictures, which the Columbia doesn't have.  Much of the additional text material is given to American history, recent history and pop-culture biography (athletes and actors).  Some of the Columbia articles are actually longer than their counterpart in EBNE.

Here's another comparison:

CE has entries for both church as a gathering of people and as a building.  EBNE only defines it as a building.

CE is never going to be updated. CE isn't available on mobile.  And new users can't get CE, so the only choice for new users is EBNE.

EBNE might be useful for my kids to use, especially since it has media and works on mobile.  But they may move quickly past its usefulness as they move into high school.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 7:52 PM

You can also check this thread. (I've commented pretty clearly there.)

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:11 PM

Todd Phillips:
The article structure, sentence length, and vocabulary in EBNE indicate that it is aimed more squarely at grade school children than general users (which would be the case if it is a repackaged Compton's).

Before Britannica bought Comptons they published Britannica Junior. I wonder if that is what we got.

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Posts 5290
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:36 PM
Mark Barnes:

There are 40,000 articles in the last print edition, and 100,000 in the last digital edition. I was thinking of the discussion here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/100978.aspx, rather than the product page. 

I see the discussion now this is a bit disappointing.. as pointed out in that discussion one can purchase the full thing for about $60 US, I will look things over the next few weeks and decide if I want to keep it.. -Dan
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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2015 8:57 PM

I'm pretty sure now it's this kid's edition:

http://kids.britannica.com/

I created a trial account with a fake address, and compared three full articles. EBNE is identical, just less links and less pictures.

Feel free to use my trial account and look for yourself. I don't need it any more...

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Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 12:00 AM

Yes, it would appear that we've been sold some version of their children's encyclopedia. I went online and compared the the Student Encyclopedia (Ages 11-14) article on Karl Marx with the EBNE version and found the text was the same: a text so concise it borders on silliness. The last line made me chuckle: "Marx did not concern himself much with practical problems but concentrated only on the revolution itself."

Logos had plenty of time to give us a look at the content in advance, rather than just a screen shot a few days before launch. May I go back to my comment about "smoke and mirrors" now? Or am I just being a conspiracy theorist again? :)

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 3:55 AM

Jan Krohn:

I'm pretty sure now it's this kid's edition:

http://kids.britannica.com/

Wow, if that is true that is very unexpected and disappointing!

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Posts 274
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:19 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Jan Krohn:

I'm pretty sure now it's this kid's edition:

http://kids.britannica.com/

Wow, if that is true that is very unexpected and disappointing!

I guess I'm the target audience for this product, because I am not disappointed by that. One of the main reasons I ordered this is because I thought it would be a great resource for my elementary school age children to use where I wouldn't have to worry about them relying on places like Wikipedia. The bonus was that it would fill out the timeline for me and add lots of media.

I can understand why others are disappointed, though.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:33 AM

Will come in handy for my children.

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