Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?

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This post has 261 Replies | 21 Followers

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Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 5:56 PM

This morning my bride of 57 years and I offered prayer for Faithllife (thanksgiving for the Company, gratitude for its people as well as its products, guidance in sorting through a monumental snafu). It's obvious prayer has been answered, in spades. Many thanks to you all in Bellingham, Arizona, India (and I guess  the UK and South Africa), and may God be praised for His grace, mercy, and peace.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 5:59 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Here are your options:

  1. If you're happy to have access to Compton's now and wait for Encyclopedia Britannica to be delivered later this year or early next year, you don't need to do anything. Enjoy access to Compton's now and wait patiently as we build Encyclopedia Britannica.
  2. If you'd like to wait to pay until the full product is finished, you can return the product and place a pre-order for the new one.
  3. If you'd like a refund, we'd be happy take care of that for you.

Phil - 

I am inclined to take a "wait and see" approach... Would it be unreasonable to have a 30 day period to return the resource after the other product ships?

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:11 PM

Very good outcome. I'm much happier now.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:14 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're not sure yet, and before setting expectation and not being able to meet them a second time, I wanted to be sure. They're sending us their 80,000 article list, and we're going to select the ones we want to include. Some are off limits. They don't license them to anyone, but the majority are available to us. We need to factor cost into the equation.

Hopefully you can offer a majority of them. I for one am not overly concerned about the items i will find in something like Anchor Bible Dictionary. I see Britannica as an ideal resource to give a broad look at secular matters. Ideally for the sake of the Britannica brand one would think they would want you to have as broad a set as possible. Noet is a program that offers Britannica in a most powerful search engine. If they allow a complete DVDROM to be sold $49.99, I would hope they could allow an academic tool like Noet/Logos to distribute it too... 

-dan

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:15 PM

Mark Barnes:

On the question of word count, I counted 156,593 words up to and including the article on Airline. That's 272 articles, or an average of 576 words per article. If there were 19,000 articles, and the average was maintained, that would be more than 10 million words.

Concordance shows a count of 10,062,896.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:23 PM

Don Awalt:
1. I too am wondering about what subset of the EB this will be - which I know you don't know now...as a crazy example, if it was 22,000 articles of everything they had from A-G, that's not usable - nor is every article under 1,000 words, because I can find an article on Hilkiah but not on Abraham. What will the subset be - only geography, people, and theology/religious articles? Only religious articles? Is the subset defined in some other way? I am assuming there is some logic to the articles that will be selected for Faithlife customers, otherwise it may prove problematic to actually use the resource in our study/use of Logos/Verbum. Does that make sense, do you see it as some logical subset of EB that fits into Logos/Verbum, or some random collection of articles?

That's a good question. The largest articles are off limits. They're happy for us to choose from all the articles under the certain word limit. There's likely a middle category where we can strategically include some articles that are key for our audience. Our aim is to offer as comprehensive coverage as we can and to make sure there is good even coverage of the most important topics for our Bible study and humanities markets. As soon as I have more information, I'll let you know.

Don Awalt:
2. If it takes for example, 6 weeks to release the EB - and say someone does not like it - will they be able to request a refund on the Compton's/EB $99 even though it's past the 30 day period from when they received Compton's yesterday?

The clock for the 30-day refund doesn't start until we've delivered the full product to you.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:26 PM

Phil, Faithlife, and all involved in this decision: you've responded promptly, transparently, and with as much new information as you can. Thank you.

I hope that what you end up being able to produce lives up to the expectations many of us had about this product from the start.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:29 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Our aim is to offer as comprehensive coverage as we can and to make sure there is good even coverage of the most important topics for our Bible study and humanities markets.

Hint: Less Simon Cowell and more Aristotle. Smile

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:29 PM

alabama24:
Would it be unreasonable to have a 30 day period to return the resource after the other product

Absolutely not. The return period won't start until you've received the full product.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:30 PM

Steve Maling:

This morning my bride of 57 years and I offered prayer for Faithllife (thanksgiving for the Company, gratitude for its people as well as its products, guidance in sorting through a monumental snafu). It's obvious prayer has been answered, in spades. Many thanks to you all in Bellingham, Arizona, India (and I guess  the UK and South Africa), and may God be praised for His grace, mercy, and peace.

Thank you, Steve!

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:43 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Mark Barnes:
There may be some number of people who pre-ordered at $99 before the prepub price went up to $199, but have since asked for a refund. If the next pre-pub price is going to be more than $99 you may want to add some provision so that they can still get the new bundle for $99.

We will honor the original Pre-Pub price for those who have canceled already.

So those who cancelled the original pre-pub prior to it going into production can purchase the new pre-pub for $99? If this is correct, I would place my order for the new pre-pub.  Thanks. 

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:43 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
The largest articles are off limits.

That seems like a tough exclusion.  Seems like it would eliminate important topics.  According to wikipedia, the longest article is "United States".  I suspect "England" isn't far behind.  Do they have shorter alternatives for those long versions?

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:45 PM

Todd Phillips:
Do they have shorter alternatives for those long versions?

You'll get coverage for those in Compton's, most likely.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:55 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Todd Phillips:
Do they have shorter alternatives for those long versions?

You'll get coverage for those in Compton's.

Sounds acceptable.. hopefully you can get most of the important ones.

-Dan

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:56 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
You'll get coverage for those in Compton's.

and its actually pretty lengthy (United States)...

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Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 6:57 PM

Phil,

I would like to thank Faithlife for its diligence and quick turn around in addressing this issue that was brought up with regards to the Britannica.  It was great to see a solution and communication within 24 hours.  I for one will hang onto the resource and eagerly await the next release of the more robust EB.  

A suggestion that maybe could mitigate some of this in the future might be to bring in beta testers to look at major resources like this and get their feedback.  I would think that there were a subset of beta testers that signed up for the pre-pub deal and their eyes might of caught some of the concerns prior to the release to everyone.

Keep up the good work.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 7:10 PM

Bruce Roth:
A suggestion that maybe could mitigate some of this in the future might be to bring in beta testers to look at major resources like this and get their feedback.  I would think that there were a subset of beta testers that signed up for the pre-pub deal and their eyes might of caught some of the concerns prior to the release to everyone

Sounds like a good idea.

Lynden Williams Commu

Posts 498
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 7:19 PM

Phil, 

Thanks for you and all of Faithlife working hard to correct this! I browsed the Encyclopedia when it downloaded and thought to myself they were oddly written, but since I hadn't looked at an EB set that wasn't less than 30 years old, I didn't know what direction they had taken their content.

But with that said, now that you've got a decent relationship with EB the company, how about getting The Great Books of the Western World and The Great Ideas Today sets in Noet? Big Smile

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 7:28 PM

alabama24:

Why do you need Logos? "The Internet" isn't a source. ONE of the places you can utilize on the internet with a subscription is Encyclopedia Britannica.

That's a very good point!! We've already arrived at at a stage where news magazines credit their sources as "Wikipedia", "Youtube" or "Google". Journalists are supposed to research every word, and not just copy from Wikipedia. It's not gonna take long, and "the internet" in general will be a source. I'm quite concerned where we're heading, and what we're teaching the next generation.

A few years back some funny chap changed the first name of the guy who was to be appointed German defense minister in a Wikipedia article. So when he got appointed, journalists took his background information from Wikipedia instead of researching it themselves. You know where this is going... It caused a nation-wide laugh.

That's an easy to detect and very funny example, but the same mechanism can work in a very deceptive way as well, for example when it was widely reported earlier this year that the EU had declared gay marriage and abortion human rights (a lie, basically, which spread worldwide).

But that goes off-topic now. It demonstrates the need for truly reliable sources though.

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Posts 565
Jesse Blevins | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 7:28 PM

Yes

Thank you Phil for the response. 

Thank you Faithlife for your efforts to make this right. 

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