Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?

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This post has 261 Replies | 21 Followers

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 3:51 PM

Wanted to mention that I received a very nice e-mail this afternoon from FaithLife explaining the whole thing about customers being disappointed and what they are doing in response ... what Phil said earlier in this thread.  It was thoughtful that they would take the time out in the midst of an apparent unhappy situation to send an explanation.

Very thoughtful ... Smile

Continuing to keep everyone at FaithLife in my prayers.

Posts 2844
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 6:26 PM

If anyone thinks it was a scam, he must not have done business with Logos very long.  They are people of integrity, and are making it right.  It is impossible to never make a mistake.  It is very Christian to take responsibility and make it right.  That is what Bob and Logos / Faithlife are doing.  It is what I expected them to do from long experience as a Logos customer.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 5301
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:06 PM

Michael Childs:
If anyone thinks it was a scam, he must not have done business with Logos very long.  They are people of integrity, and are making it right.  It is impossible to never make a mistake.  It is very Christian to take responsibility and make it right.  That is what Bob and Logos / Faithlife are doing.  It is what I expected them to do from long experience as a Logos customer.

Exactly and a bait and switch "scam" doesn't end up with you owning both products. This was a set of errors that has been resolved (again a "scam" does not involve refunds or gifts of secondary products). It is understandable for people to be upset that they received the wrong product. But a bit of understanding and a little less judgement would be nice.

-Dan

Posts 18
Norman Low | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 9:13 AM

Let me compare responses to three recent purchases from large, well-known companies when there were problems with services and products. 

1. Company sent product to store for local pickup. Somehow, the item was "lost." Received email that I will be refunded. No other suggestions or offers.

2. Ordered from manufacturer's web site. Product died with only minimum usage.  Telephone support could not fix so they offered a refund if I returned it. Got refund for purchase price but not the 25% price for shipment.

3. Another purchase died within a month. Company offered refund and paid for return.

In comparison, FL's offer is much better.

I would also say that this incident is an excellent stress test. We learn more from failures than when things go right. What it illustrates is the integrity of the company and what they will do to correct major problems. It also illustrates the value of the whole vendor-customer ecosystem. The FL forums Are outstanding where there is great participation.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 12:14 PM

Norman Low:
I would also say that this incident is an excellent stress test. We learn more from failures than when things go right. What it illustrates is the integrity of the company and what they will do to correct major problems. It also illustrates the value of the whole vendor-customer ecosystem. The FL forums Are outstanding where there is great participation.

        StarYesSmile

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 1067
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 1:03 PM

Norman Low:
I would also say that this incident is an excellent stress test. We learn more from failures than when things go right. What it illustrates is the integrity of the company and what they will do to correct major problems. It also illustrates the value of the whole vendor-customer ecosystem. The FL forums Are outstanding where there is great participation.

I could not agree more regarding the attitude of companies where things go wrong.

The character of we customers is stress tested with our willingness to believe the best or the worst of the company when things go wrong. If I start believing the worst it will make me wound up, bitter and twisted inside which will likely have a knock-on effect on my health which I really can't afford at my time of life.

I am now wishing that I had got on board at the earlier lower rate!!

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 7:33 PM

.. did I mention the really nice e-mail from FL explaining the whole thing and the response/action they are taking ...

Possibly lost in the whole discussion here.

Posts 5301
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 9:46 PM

I am not sure if anything will calm this tempest in a teapot, but lets look at our free encyclopedia entry on Camus and see yes it is brief but it a good starting point... and then look at the britannica entry...

  • EBNE aka Britannica kids/Compton's Family

Camus, Albert

(1913–60). Living in a world overwhelmed by wars and political upheaval, Albert Camus believed that traditional human values must survive. While his novels, essays, and plays reflect an indifferent, meaningless universe, Camus argued the need to rebel against this absurdity—to defend such values as truth and justice.
Albert Camus was born on Nov. 7, 1913, in Mondovi, Algeria. Less than a year later, his father was killed in World War I. Camus studied philosophy at the University of Algeria, but his work was cut short by an attack of tuberculosis. His first published works, collections of essays, describe his life in Algeria. Both collections contrast the fragile mortality of human beings with the enduring nature of the physical world. He wrote and acted for the Workers’ Theatre, which aimed to bring outstanding plays to working-class audiences, and he worked as a journalist for the newspaper Alger-Républicain.
At the outbreak of World War II, Camus went to France, where he joined the Resistance movement and edited the Resistance newspaper Combat. His first novel, L’Étranger (The Stranger), and an essay, Le Mythe de Sisyphe (The Myth of Sisyphus), were published in French in 1942. His second novel, La Peste (1947; The Plague), is a symbolic account of the fight against an epidemic by characters who, while aware that their efforts are in vain, work on to try to ease the suffering of their fellow citizens.
Camus received the Nobel prize for literature in 1957. On Jan. 4, 1960, he was killed in an automobile accident near Sens, France. An unfinished manuscript of an autobiographical novel recovered from the accident wreckage was published posthumously in 1994 as Le Premier Homme (The First Man).


“Camus, Albert,” Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition (Chicago, IL: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2015).

  • Britannica Entry

Albert Camus, (born November 7, 1913, Mondovi, Algeria—died January 4, 1960, near Sens, France), French novelist, essayist, and playwright, best known for such novels as L’Étranger (1942; The Stranger), La Peste (1947; The Plague), and La Chute (1956; The Fall) and for his work in leftist causes. He received the 1957 Nobel Prize for Literature.

Early years
Less than a year after Camus was born, his father, an impoverished worker, was killed in World War I during the First Battle of the Marne. His mother, of Spanish descent, did housework to support her family. Camus and his elder brother Lucien moved with their mother to a working-class district of Algiers, where all three lived, together with the maternal grandmother and a paralyzed uncle, in a two-room apartment. Camus’s first published collection of essays, L’Envers et l’endroit (1937; “The Wrong Side and the Right Side”), describes the physical setting of these early years and includes portraits of his mother, grandmother, and uncle. A second collection of essays, Noces (1938; “Nuptials”), contains intensely lyrical meditations on the Algerian countryside and presents natural beauty as a form of wealth that even the very poor can enjoy. Both collections contrast the fragile mortality of human beings with the enduring nature of the physical world.

In 1918 Camus entered primary school and was fortunate enough to be taught by an outstanding teacher, Louis Germain, who helped him to win a scholarship to the Algiers lycée (high school) in 1923. (It was typical of Camus’s sense of loyalty that 34 years later his speech accepting the Nobel Prize for Literature was dedicated to Germain.) A period of intellectual awakening followed, accompanied by great enthusiasm for sport, especially football (soccer), swimming, and boxing. In 1930, however, the first of several severe attacks of tuberculosis put an end to his sporting career and interrupted his studies. Camus had to leave the unhealthy apartment that had been his home for 15 years, and, after a short period spent with an uncle, Camus decided to live on his own, supporting himself by a variety of jobs while registered as a philosophy student at the University of Algiers.

At the university, Camus was particularly influenced by one of his teachers, Jean Grenier, who helped him to develop his literary and philosophical ideas and shared his enthusiasm for football. He obtained a diplôme d’études supérieures in 1936 for a thesis on the relationship between Greek and Christian thought in the philosophical writings of Plotinus and St. Augustine. His candidature for the agrégation (a qualification that would have enabled him to take up a university career) was cut short by another attack of tuberculosis. To regain his health he went to a resort in the French Alps—his first visit to Europe—and eventually returned to Algiers via Florence, Pisa, and Genoa.

Camus’s literary career
Throughout the 1930s, Camus broadened his interests. He read the French classics as well as the writers of the day—among them André Gide, Henry de Montherlant, André Malraux—and was a prominent figure among the young left-wing intellectuals of Algiers. For a short period in 1934–35 he was also a member of the Algerian Communist Party. In addition, he wrote, produced, adapted, and acted for the Théâtre du Travail (Workers’ Theatre, later named the Théâtre de l’Équipe), which aimed to bring outstanding plays to working-class audiences. He maintained a deep love of the theatre until his death. Ironically, his plays are the least-admired part of his literary output, although Le Malentendu (Cross Purpose) and Caligula, first produced in 1944 and 1945, respectively, remain landmarks in the Theatre of the Absurd. Two of his most enduring contributions to the theatre may well be his stage adaptations of William Faulkner’s Requiem for a Nun (Requiem pour une nonne; 1956) and Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s The Possessed (Les Possédés; 1959).

In the two years before the outbreak of World War II, Camus served his apprenticeship as a journalist with Alger-Républicain in many capacities, including those of leader- (editorial-) writer, subeditor, political reporter, and book reviewer. He reviewed some of Jean-Paul Sartre’s early literary works and wrote an important series of articles analyzing social conditions among the Muslims of the Kabylie region. These articles, reprinted in abridged form in Actuelles III (1958), drew attention (15 years in advance) to many of the injustices that led to the outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954. Camus took his stand on humanitarian rather than ideological grounds and continued to see a future role for France in Algeria while not ignoring colonialist injustices.

He enjoyed the most influence as a journalist during the final years of the occupation of France and the immediate post-Liberation period. As editor of the Parisian daily Combat, the successor of a Resistance newssheet run largely by Camus, he held an independent left-wing position based on the ideals of justice and truth and the belief that all political action must have a solid moral basis. Later, the old-style expediency of both Left and Right brought increasing disillusion, and in 1947 he severed his connection with Combat.

By now Camus had become a leading literary figure. L’Étranger (U.S. title, The Stranger; British title, The Outsider), a brilliant first novel begun before the war and published in 1942, is a study of 20th-century alienation with a portrait of an “outsider” condemned to death less for shooting an Arab than for the fact that he never says more than he genuinely feels and refuses to conform to society’s demands. The same year saw the publication of an influential philosophical essay, Le Mythe de Sisyphe (The Myth of Sisyphus), in which Camus, with considerable sympathy, analyzed contemporary nihilism and a sense of the “absurd.” He was already seeking a way of overcoming nihilism, and his second novel, La Peste (1947; The Plague), is a symbolical account of the fight against an epidemic in Oran by characters whose importance lies less in the (doubtful) success with which they oppose the epidemic than in their determined assertion of human dignity and fraternity. Camus had now moved from his first main concept of the absurd to his other major idea of moral and metaphysical “rebellion.” He contrasted this latter ideal with politico-historical revolution in a second long essay, L’Homme révolté (1951; The Rebel), which provoked bitter antagonism among Marxist critics and such near-Marxist theoreticians as Jean-Paul Sartre. His other major literary works are the technically brilliant novel La Chute (1956) and a collection of short stories, L’Exil et le royaume (1957; Exile and the Kingdom). La Chute reveals a preoccupation with Christian symbolism and contains an ironical and witty exposure of the more complacent forms of secular humanist morality.

In 1957, at the early age of 44, Camus received the Nobel Prize for Literature. With characteristic modesty he declared that had he been a member of the awarding committee his vote would certainly have gone to André Malraux. Less than three years later he was killed in an automobile accident.

Assessment
As novelist and playwright, moralist and political theorist, Albert Camus after World War II became the spokesman of his own generation and the mentor of the next, not only in France but also in Europe and eventually the world. His writings, which addressed themselves mainly to the isolation of man in an alien universe, the estrangement of the individual from himself, the problem of evil, and the pressing finality of death, accurately reflected the alienation and disillusionment of the postwar intellectual. He is remembered, with Sartre, as a leading practitioner of the existential novel. Though he understood the nihilism of many of his contemporaries, Camus also argued the necessity of defending such values as truth, moderation, and justice. In his last works he sketched the outlines of a liberal humanism that rejected the dogmatic aspects of both Christianity and Marxism.

John Cruickshank
Ed.

____________________________________

I share these to show while EBNE is not EB, it is very possible that they did not realize the mistake till after the release. The article I shared to me seems complete enough to give the impression, "oh this article is just a little short". It is very possible that the articles that were viewed were just in depth enough not to raise red flags in their minds.

This has been speedily and splendidly dealt with by Faithlife's staff. A mistake this big is unfortunate but the explanation lead to how it happened. Please people take you refund or wait for the true EBNE to get released in a few weeks. But what seems wrong to me in the extreme is to refuse to accept a reasonable solutions and casting slings and arrows that seem unfounded when you step back to look at this error.

-Dan

PS: If you go back far enough in this thread you can see I was quite upset with the quality of the product we got, but I always knew a full refund was the worse case scenario. And I was more upset that this would do major damage to the Noet brand but after learning it was what seemed to be an honest mistake and it was speedily dealt with I hope that the Noet users will be able to see that.

Posts 248
Patrick Rietveld | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 11 2015 4:13 AM

JohnB:

I am now wishing that I had got on board at the earlier lower rate!!

Me too...

Posts 3
Rockwell Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 11 2015 3:20 PM

I admit that I was disappointed with the product, but your offer is MORE than fair. Thank you for caring enough to make it right. I appreciate how you value integrity.

Posts 269
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 8:59 PM

Dan Francis:

Michael Childs:
If anyone thinks it was a scam, he must not have done business with Logos very long.  They are people of integrity, and are making it right.  It is impossible to never make a mistake.  It is very Christian to take responsibility and make it right.  That is what Bob and Logos / Faithlife are doing.  It is what I expected them to do from long experience as a Logos customer.

Exactly and a bait and switch "scam" doesn't end up with you owning both products. This was a set of errors that has been resolved (again a "scam" does not involve refunds or gifts of secondary products). It is understandable for people to be upset that they received the wrong product. But a bit of understanding and a little less judgement would be nice.

-Dan

I was with you right with you up until I saw this, which had to be already in the works:

Great Books of the Western World (60 vols.)

by 130 authors

Encyclopaedia Britannica 1990

Posts 2616
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 9:15 PM

I noticed the new "Compton's" book covers the two resources now have. Nice.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 10744
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2015 2:42 AM

Claude Brown Jr:

Dan Francis:

Michael Childs:
If anyone thinks it was a scam, he must not have done business with Logos very long.  They are people of integrity, and are making it right.  It is impossible to never make a mistake.  It is very Christian to take responsibility and make it right.  That is what Bob and Logos / Faithlife are doing.  It is what I expected them to do from long experience as a Logos customer.

Exactly and a bait and switch "scam" doesn't end up with you owning both products. This was a set of errors that has been resolved (again a "scam" does not involve refunds or gifts of secondary products). It is understandable for people to be upset that they received the wrong product. But a bit of understanding and a little less judgement would be nice.

-Dan

I was with you right with you up until I saw this, which had to be already in the works:

Great Books of the Western World (60 vols.)

by 130 authors

Encyclopaedia Britannica 1990

I do not under what you are implying by this post, but that product IS NOT Encyclopedia Britannica. It is published by Britannica—the company. They are still working on the announcement for the encyclopedia. FL has stated these facts in multiple posts.

Posts 20
Abel C. Pol | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2015 11:42 AM

Phil, two questions:

  1. Will the articles be automatically updated over time, or will there be a separate charge for that? If so, how much?
  2. How difficult would it be for you to get all the articles (not just a selection) from the full Encyclopedia Britannica database (i.e. Britannica Academic)? The reason I love Logos is because the interface is so much better than anything else out there. I would like to be able to look up anything in Logos, not just a select series of articles. One day I want Logos to be my one-stop search-for-anything resource.

Thanks for your time.

Posts 810
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2015 12:37 PM

George Somsel:

... don't believe everything you find on the internet.

You're kidding, right?  I really wish you wouldn't joke around like this, it might affect someone's theology. 

  ConfusedWink

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 1967
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2015 10:44 PM

Abel C. Pol:

1. Will the articles be automatically updated over time, or will there be a separate charge for that? If so, how much?

No. This is a static snapshot of their database. We haven't worked future updates into the contract. We'll explore that with them, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to do that or not. There would be some technical challenges to handling this as well.

Abel C. Pol:

2. How difficult would it be for you to get all the articles (not just a selection) from the full Encyclopedia Britannica database (i.e. Britannica Academic)? The reason I love Logos is because the interface is so much better than anything else out there. I would like to be able to look up anything in Logos, not just a select series of articles. One day I want Logos to be my one-stop search-for-anything resource.

It's not an option, at least not now. What we got from them was way more than they normally do with third parties.

Posts 20
Abel C. Pol | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 3:28 PM

Thanks. One more question, if I may: will Britannica be unbundled and be available for less than the $199 prepub? I am not at all interested in Compton's, but may still consider getting Britannica if I can get it for less. I should add, this would be entirely because of the Logos ecosystem, as I already have Britannica Ultimate 2015 installed on my laptop.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 3:49 PM

Abel C. Pol:
will Britannica be unbundled and be available for less than the $199 prepub? I am not at all interested in Compton's, but may still consider getting Britannica if I can get it for less.

Doubtful. Pre-pub is typically the cheapest route, and Compton's was a mistake. 

There was an early pre-pub deal for less, which has since expired. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 80
Waldemar Michel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2016 4:21 AM

I did not want to wait any longer for the update and wanted to have this product back again but only get the following answer:

"Hello Waldemar, Thank you for your email. I am sorry, but we only have a 30-day return policy and therefore I will not be able to issue a return for this resource."

I had understood that the return period has been extended would be available until the update. Now what's wrong?

Waldemar

Addendum: I have just received confirmation on the return. 

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2016 6:38 AM

From earlier in this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/117294/770418.aspx#770418

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

We've discussed this internally and with the Encyclopaedia Britannica team, and we figured out what happened and have a good plan in place for how to make it right.

What Happened

Encyclopaedia Britannica (the company) has three different encyclopedia databases:

  1. Encyclopedia Britannica: contains ~80,000 articles and has over 40,000,000 words; aimed at the scholarly market
  2. Compton's Encyclopedia: contains ~19,000 articles and has over 8,000,000 words; aimed at the family market
  3. Encyclopedia Britannica, Student Edition: contains ~5,000 articles and has ~2,000,000 words; aimed at the student market

What we received from Encyclopaedia Britannica and delivered to you was #2.

All three of these are considered part of the Encyclopaedia Britannica family of encyclopedias. Compton's has been updated and expanded by the Encyclopaedia Britannica team beyond the edition that used to be in print, so there was a desire on the part of some to distance our product from the Compton's most people are familiar with. Ours is bigger, better, and more up to date.

(There's also a concise edition of Encyclopedia Britannica, 24,973 short articles and ~2,800,000 words, which they no longer sell.)

Encyclopaedia Britannica (the company) has several different encyclopedia products, which contain one or more of their three databases:

  1. Britannica.com: includes a subset of the main Encyclopedia Britannica database. They rotate which articles appear online from time to time.
  2. Britannica Kids: includes the full database of both Compton's and the Student Edition.
  3. Britannica School: has the full database for all three products.
  4. Britannica Academic: has the full Encyclopedia Britannica database.

They also license their various databases to third parties; these databases show up in products of various names. So its normal for these databases to be delivered under different names.

There was some confusion between our teams regarding what exactly we were getting. Some thought we were simply getting a portion of the full Encyclopedia Britannica rather than a completely distinct set of content. We're really sorry for this confusion and miscommunication. This should have been named and advertised as Compton's Encyclopedia, or at the very least described as an updated version of what used to be called Compton's Encyclopedia.

What We're Going to Do

Here's what we plan to do.

Encyclopaedia Britannica (the company) has kindly agreed to give us access to a large portion (exact amount TBD) of their full Encyclopedia Britannica database, with the corresponding media. We plan to build that out as a completely separate resource and bundle it in a collection along with the full Compton's Encyclopedia, which you already received. So you'll get both, for the price you already paid. (We're going to rename the current resource Compton's Encyclopedia. The new resource will be named Encyclopedia Britannica.) Consider Compton's a bonus, "we're sorry" gift. We're also going to deliver substantially more content that we originally described. We already delivered the full Compton's with its ~19,000 articles. We're going to deliver on top of that a substantial portion of the full Encyclopedia Britannica database of articles and corresponding media—at no additional charge to you.

We'll be putting the product back on Pre-Pub to give everyone who missed out the first time a second chance to take advantage of what's now an even better deal. We'll ship it as soon as we've built Encyclopedia Britannica. We're going to give it top priority and push it through the system as quickly as we can. It's a large amount of content, so it's going to take several weeks at minimum. Those of you who got in on the first pre-order (and don't request a refund) can simply ignore the new Pre-Pub.

What You Can Do

Since the product is changing and expanding and you've already been billed, we want to make sure you're 100% happy.

Here are your options:

  1. Keep Compton's and wait for Encyclopedia Britannica. If you're happy to have access to Compton's now and wait for Encyclopedia Britannica to be delivered later this year or early next year, you don't need to do anything. Enjoy access to Compton's now and wait patiently as we build Encyclopedia Britannica. You're paid in full and won't be charged for anything else.
  2. Return Compton's and pre-order the new Pre-Pub. If you'd like to wait to pay until the full product is finished, you can return the product and place a pre-order for the new one. You'll get both encyclopedias when they're finished and won't be charged until then. We'll honor the Pre-Pub price you had when you pre-ordered the original product. To take advantage of this, just call us at 800-875-6467 or send an email to cs@logos.com.
  3. Request a refund. If you'd like a refund, we'd be happy take care of that for you. The 30-day return window won't start until we've delivered the full product, so feel free to take the full time to evaluate whether the product is right for you.

On behalf of the team, please accept our sincerest apologies. We're really sorry for this mix-up and confusion, and we're eager to make it right.

Edit: I updated the projected ship time frame to reflect reality.

In particular NOTE:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
The 30-day return window won't start until we've delivered the full product, so feel free to take the full time to evaluate whether the product is right for you.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

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