Encyclopedia Britannica Update

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This post has 336 Replies | 25 Followers

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2016 7:33 PM

I'm happy to have EBNE and Compton's, finally!

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 292
Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2016 7:54 PM

Stephen Terlizzi:

i have to agree that the Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition is disappointing. It looks like the first resource that I will be returning for a refund. I downloaded the free Britannica app on my iPad and it has all the same entries (albeit without Logos tagging). And it includes Martin Luther, C.S. Lewis, and the Beatles!

I can use the $100 much more productively.

Agape,

Steve

My understanding from the Apple App store is that the free access is limited to 65,000 articles out of the 80,000 that paid subscribers get access to for $14.99 a year.

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2016 8:55 PM

Bruce Roth:

Stephen Terlizzi:

i have to agree that the Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition is disappointing. It looks like the first resource that I will be returning for a refund. I downloaded the free Britannica app on my iPad and it has all the same entries (albeit without Logos tagging). And it includes Martin Luther, C.S. Lewis, and the Beatles!

I can use the $100 much more productively.

Agape,

Steve

My understanding from the Apple App store is that the free access is limited to 65,000 articles out of the 80,000 that paid subscribers get access to for $14.99 a year.

That's true, Bruce, but the free app provides access to notable figures the EBNE does not. I'm not sure why the publisher refused such articles to Faithlife. 

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2016 8:57 PM

Bruce Roth:

Stephen Terlizzi:

i have to agree that the Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition is disappointing. It looks like the first resource that I will be returning for a refund. I downloaded the free Britannica app on my iPad and it has all the same entries (albeit without Logos tagging). And it includes Martin Luther, C.S. Lewis, and the Beatles!

I can use the $100 much more productively.

Agape,

Steve

My understanding from the Apple App store is that the free access is limited to 65,000 articles out of the 80,000 that paid subscribers get access to for $14.99 a year.

Interesting.  I've been playing around with the different options EB has for access.  I haven't been able to find any missing articles so far using the non-logged-in/non-subscribed app.  All the big ones seem to be there, like "history of Europe", which is not available on their website without an account.  But there may be missing content I couldn't find.

However, if you create an account on britannica.com (just an account, no subscription), you seem to get full access to the main Encyclopedia Britannica with embedded advertisements (but no student or youth encyclopedias) . 

Then, you can use that free web site account to log into the mobile app.  Unexpectedly, this seems to disable the advertisements in the app.  I had originally logged in to the app with a trial subscription active from the website.  But when I canceled my trial, I didn't lose any functionality in the app.  So the app seems to be fully functional for free if you set up your account on the web first and use it to login to the app.  One of the downsides to the mobile app is that you can't select and copy text.

So what does a website subscription give you? Best I can tell is it removes ads from the web version and gives access to the kids encyclopedias.

But if you have a library card at a participating library, then you can access the Britannica website (with no ads and all encyclopedias) for free as well.  That has to be done via your library's website, FYI.

This is all very confusing to me.  I cannot tell what their marketing strategy is.  So much is available for free.  Why they would not bother to license their full content for Logos for the high prices that Logos users are willing to pay? Especially when they sell their DVD version at fire-sale prices.

Edit:  I just logged out of the eb website and logged back in.  This is the first time I've done that since the trial subscription was cancelled.  It looks like I don't have access to some articles now that I did before, and that my login cookie was keeping it active.  I guess it's not full access with an free account like I thought.  However, on the mobile app,  I can access those same articles that I can't on the web  (history of Europe, in this case) using the same account.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 58
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 12:10 PM

Ben Amundgaard:

Hi all,

Over the past week or so, we've had a few people test the EBNE resource to make sure we had set accurate expectations about the product. In light of their feedback, I think it's worth making a few clarifying comments to ensure that everyone knows what they are getting and has accurate expectations.

In the wake of the fallout from the initial product we shipped, EB offered to give us an additional set of articles to make a product that better met our customer's original expectations. EB offered the following:

  1. Every article under 1,200 words (which is ~81,000). For this group, we took the whole lot.
  2. A select number of articles over 1,200 words (there are over 2,600 articles total in this category, we were able to get ~550).

In total, we ended up including a majority of EB's total article count (in addition to the initial Compton's articles).

We tried to be clear in the various forum posts that the additional articles we were creating would be a subset of the complete Encyclopedia Britannica. I've looked back at some of the posts and it looks like we did a fairly good job at that. That said, I do have a concern that we might have not been clear enough about what that subset would be.

As I said, we were able to license ~550 of the articles above 1,200 words (I've attached an Excel file listing these articles and their respective word counts). This led to some strange gaps. For example, we were able to include articles on WWI, WWI, Ancient Egypt, and Ancient Rome, but didn't have the option to include articles on Martin Luther or C.S. Lewis.

That said, paired with Compton's you will have fairly comprehensive coverage on one level or another.

A second issue I'd like to clarify regards the media portion of the resource. Many of the quotes referenced in Denise's post above come from statements made before we shipped the initial product. After having heard feedback from those who reviewed the media, I'm afraid that not all of it lives up to the claim of 'hi res'. Some of it is great, some of it not-so-great. There's not much we can do about the quality of the media as we have the best quality that EBNE has to offer. That said, our initial communication definitely oversold the media and I want to reset everyone's expectations.

Finally, a question was raised about the Timeline. As with all our resources, dates within the resources link out to the timeline. However, not every event listed in a resource is added to the timeline (this is the case for resources other than EBNE). This means that while you can jump from the resource to the timeline and from the timeline to many other resources, you can't necessarily jump from every resource to every other resource by way of the timeline. I'm concerned that the way we talked about the timeline on the product page and in other copy indicated that every event from EB would be added to the timeline so that you could go to the EBNE from any other resource by way of the timeline. That isn't the way the timeline feature will work with EBNE.

I still think this is a great resource that will add value to your library. I just want to make sure that you know what you're getting so that you have accurate expectations.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Hey all, my previous question was this:

On the provided list of 550 entries of over 1200 words, the terms "Bahia" and "Sikkim" seem to be outliers as two locations in Brazil and India, respectively. (no offense to residents of these locations.)  I'm not sure I understand why these were included in a curated list of longer entries.

Were these intentionally offered for the list of 550 entries of 1200 words or more? 

It seems like "Bahāʾī Faith" and "Sikhism" would be search topics more often utilized by most people.

I hope this clarification helps.

Hopeful for an answer,

-WR82

(Here's the initial few sentences of these two entries:

BAHIA, estado (state) of eastern Brazil. It is bounded by Piauí and Pernambuco states to the north, by Alagoas and Sergipe states to the northeast, by the Atlantic Ocean to the east, by Espírito Santo and Minas Gerais states to the south, and by Goiás and Tocantins states to the west.

SIKKIM, state of India, located in the northeastern part of the country, in the eastern Himalayas. It is one of the smallest states in India.

Encyclopædia Britannica, Encyclopedia Britannica (Chicago, IL: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2016).)

Posts 592
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 1:57 PM

I prioritized EB and have been pleased early on to find good hits on searches.

Plus, there's a Loony Tunes cartoon included in the media library!

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 3:21 PM

Still have mixed feelings about the Noet Edition.  Had I not paid the pre-pub price, I doubt I could justify the cost.  Even so, I'm not sure this edition is worth it.  Kyle said he anticipated an update in 4-6 weeks.  Maybe he can work some magic to make the resource a better value.

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 3:42 PM

Paul Strickert:

Still have mixed feelings about the Noet Edition.  Had I not paid the pre-pub price, I doubt I could justify the cost.  Even so, I'm not sure this edition is worth it.  Kyle said he anticipated an update in 4-6 weeks.  Maybe he can work some magic to make the resource a better value.

I missed that from Kyle. Four to six weeks, though, may get outside the return date.

I'm sure that Logos will make what we have better. It just annoys me that a substantial number of articles in the $40 Ultimate DVD version were withheld by the publisher.  Forget the paid DVD version -- the free app and online version have articles not in the EBNE. Hmm

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 6320
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 3:56 PM
Bill Moore:

Paul Strickert:

Still have mixed feelings about the Noet Edition.  Had I not paid the pre-pub price, I doubt I could justify the cost.  Even so, I'm not sure this edition is worth it.  Kyle said he anticipated an update in 4-6 weeks.  Maybe he can work some magic to make the resource a better value.

I missed that from Kyle. Four to six weeks, though, may get outside the return date.

I'm sure that Logos will make what we have better. It just annoys me that a substantial number of articles in the $40 Ultimate. DVD version were withheld by the publisher.  Forget the paid DVD version -- the free app and online version have articles not in the EBNE. Hmm

That's right! And that's the reason why the free app is a better value. Plus every now and then you get interesting commercials 👍
Posts 58
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 8:21 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:

We were able to publish EBNE this afternoon. It should be available shortly.

I want to point out that I am planning on an update of EBNE in 4 to 6 weeks. In final rundowns of the product I found a few minor areas of improvements that I would like to see happen. Please let me know if you notice or think of ways that the book will be more useful to you and your research. I would like to get those improvements incorporated in the next, planned, update.

Thanks for your patience in all this.

Kyle,

Thank you for your suggestion request for updating this resource. I am wondering about a few entries specifically within the research area of world religions.  My suggestions are for the Britannica Encyclopedia, and not for the Comptons Encyclopedia:

  • "Islamic arts" made the list. "Islam" did not. Could you add the article on "Islam"? 
  • Could you add the article on "Qur'an"?
  • Could you add the article for "African religions"?
  • Could you add Buddha, Muhammad, Akbar, and Zoroaster? Major figures from other religions would be helpful. Confucius, Joseph Smith III, Ghandi, and Guru Nank already made the list. Could you add the entries mentioned above?
  • Could you add articles for two major world religions, "Bahāʾī Faith" and "Sikhism"? Two articles on the list of articles over 1200 words shared this week seem like they may have been added by way of conflation(?) Bahia and Sikkim. Both of these are rather obscure states in countries abroad. They are similarly-spelled to the previously mentioned world religions. 
  • Add additional hyperlinks to instances of article titles found in other articles. These are hyperlinked infrequently, and this would add a lot of benefit to users.
  • Could you add more links to the timeline over time
  • In the iPad app, clicking an entry does not bring a user to the actual word, but to a neighboring entry. Could this be updated?
  • In the iPad app, it is not possible to click a media file within an article in the encyclopedia and to hear or view the media resource. Could this be updated?

Finally, I have a few questions:  

  • What are your plans to update this resource? What is the time line of future plans? (Are planned updates only for internal tagging or convenient features, but not to add content?) I am interested to learn if more articles over 1200 words will be added to the Encyclopedia Britannica Noet edition
  • Is there a plan in place with the publisher to add the Britannica Encyclopedia of World Religions In the future? (This is a separate resource)
  • Could you let me know which of these suggestions/questions will happen and which will not? With an update scheduled for 4-6 weeks in the future, I am hopeful to learn what will be updated.

Thank you for considering these ideas. Thank you for your efforts to improve this resource.  It is great to have a resource with a broader focus that covers the 20th and 21st centuries.

-WR82

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 8:22 PM

Bill Moore:

Paul Strickert:

Still have mixed feelings about the Noet Edition.  Had I not paid the pre-pub price, I doubt I could justify the cost.  Even so, I'm not sure this edition is worth it.  Kyle said he anticipated an update in 4-6 weeks.  Maybe he can work some magic to make the resource a better value.

I missed that from Kyle. Four to six weeks, though, may get outside the return date.

I'm sure that Logos will make what we have better. It just annoys me that a substantial number of articles in the $40 Ultimate DVD version were withheld by the publisher.  Forget the paid DVD version -- the free app and online version have articles not in the EBNE. Hmm

The excluded EB articles are not trivial subjects, obviously.  The EB app has a terrific article on baseball, for example.  (And I happen to love the sport.)  Not included in EBNE, unless you count the much shorter Compton's article.  So, yes, Bill, I'm with you.  It surprises me that so much good content is excluded from the NE (especially considering the price).

Posts 1392
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2016 8:28 PM

WR82:

  • Could you add the article on "Islam"? 
  • Could you add the article on "Qur'an"?
  • Could you add the article for "African religions"?
  • Could you add Buddha, Muhammad, Akbar, and Zoroaster? Major figures from other religions would be helpful. Confucius, Joseph Smith III, Ghandi, and Guru Nank already made the list. Those that didn't are also important.
  • Could you add articles for two major world religions, "Bahāʾī Faith" and "Sikhism"? Two articles on the list of articles over 1200 words shared this week seem like they were added by way of conflation (?) Bahia and Sikkim. Both of these are rather obscure states in countries abroad. They are similarly-spelled to the previously mentioned world religions. 

They are not adding any more articles, Britannica will not let them have the other artices, or they would have been included. They negotiated in order to get what we have now, so I would not hold your breath. Kyle asked for any suggestions to make it better, like your other suggestions, but other articles was not what he was reffering to.

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 6320
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 5:34 AM

You mean these and other articles --- Get the free app! 😜😁👍👌

Posts 58
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 5:39 AM

James Taylor:

WR82:

  • Could you add the article on "Islam"? 
  • Could you add the article on "Qur'an"?
  • Could you add the article for "African religions"?
  • Could you add Buddha, Muhammad, Akbar, and Zoroaster? Major figures from other religions would be helpful. Confucius, Joseph Smith III, Ghandi, and Guru Nank already made the list. Those that didn't are also important.
  • Could you add articles for two major world religions, "Bahāʾī Faith" and "Sikhism"? Two articles on the list of articles over 1200 words shared this week seem like they were added by way of conflation (?) Bahia and Sikkim. Both of these are rather obscure states in countries abroad. They are similarly-spelled to the previously mentioned world religions. 

They are not adding any more articles, Britannica will not let them have the other artices, or they would have been included. They negotiated in order to get what we have now, so I would not hold your breath. Kyle asked for any suggestions to make it better, like your other suggestions, but other articles was not what he was reffering to.

Kyle, is that the case? Future updates to the ENBE were described here: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/100978/697838.aspx#697838

I'm requesting the articles above be added as part of an update because they're over 1200 words, were excluded in the initial EBNE edition, and I'd like these entries to be added (or in the case of "Bahāʾī Faith" and "Sikhism," given a second look to see if these were intended, rather than Bahia and Sikkim). I can access these articles for free on the ipad app, and it would be great to do this in the newly purchased/downloaded ENBE resource in logos. A word from Faithlife on whether or not this is possible would really be great. Again, thank you for your help and for future updates,

-WR82 

Posts 6320
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 6:06 AM

Wow if those articles were included in the initial EBNE and then got taken away, then you guys are REALLY getting short changed! One more reason to consider this "edition" a mediocre one! I'd be ashamed to quote from it and then on my foot note have "EBNE" showing as the source! Enough said!

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 6:33 AM

So in EBNE we get John Lennon but not The Beatles or Paul McCartney...

Posts 1392
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 7:53 AM

DAL:
if those articles were included in the initial EBNE and then got taken away, then you guys are REALLY getting short changed!

Where was this idea implied? There were never any articles taken away. Faithlife handpicked articles out of the group of longer articles which were given to them to pick from, they were never allowed to pick them all, but only a selection of them. They said from the beginning that some of them were not allowed to be included for whatever reason from Britannica

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 599
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 8:17 AM

Amid the torrent of posts regarding the absence of an article on 'Islam" I've missed references to the series of included articles beginning with "Islamic . . ."

I haven't taken time  to assess the relative scope of these articles, but it appears that collectively they add up to quite a bit of coverage.

I wonder if a broader search for articles related to Buddhism would disclose similar coverage. And, of course, the same kind of phrasing might turn up other evidence that our hunt for topics might be more successful if we tried to match the way we ask our questions to the way EBNE is organized. (Please don't  complain that EBNE is to be faulted for the fact its organization and absence of expected cross references fail to match all expectations.)

Posts 1417
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 9:30 AM

DAL:

Wow if those articles were included in the initial EBNE and then got taken away, then you guys are REALLY getting short changed! One more reason to consider this "edition" a mediocre one! I'd be ashamed to quote from it and then on my foot note have "EBNE" showing as the source! Enough said!

I still find EBNE very helpful to me. It covers the gap I didnt have enough coverage of people, places, philosophers outside of the Bible. A good example would be today, as I downloaded the Works of Philo, I decided to search encyclopedias for him. Britannica gave a very good article about him. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 58
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 1:44 PM

Steve Maling:

Amid the torrent of posts regarding the absence of an article on 'Islam" I've missed references to the series of included articles beginning with "Islamic . . ."

I haven't taken time  to assess the relative scope of these articles, but it appears that collectively they add up to quite a bit of coverage.

I wonder if a broader search for articles related to Buddhism would disclose similar coverage. And, of course, the same kind of phrasing might turn up other evidence that our hunt for topics might be more successful if we tried to match the way we ask our questions to the way EBNE is organized. (Please don't  complain that EBNE is to be faulted for the fact its organization and absence of expected cross references fail to match all expectations.)

This is a good word. Thank you Steve. "Islamic World" has some coverage of Islam and Muhammad.

There are many articles on world religions included in the EBNE. I took another look at the list Ben provided the other day.  "New Religious Movements" is one of them. "Greek Religion" is another. I had missed the included "Iranian Religion, Ancient." This article actually covers "Zoroastrianism."

Also, the inclusion of entries on "Greek Religion," "Worship," "Native American Religions,"  "Atheism,"  "Mystery Religion," "Religion, Philosophy of" and "Religions, classifications of" is very good. There are many helpful longer entries on philosophy as well.

Though the article "Islam" is fully available for me on the Britannica Ipad app, it is behind a paywall on the Britannica website. This is the same situation for "Sikhism" and "Baha'i Faith."  As this is the case, these three may be some of the other articles that were not offered by the publisher. That some of these longer articles are excluded has been well explained by the folks from Faithlife.  However, we were able to get some of the longer articles included, and I am just wondering if there are plans to include any others in a future update.

Please don't think my questions are a veiled criticism. I'm not trying to "burn it down" here or to dissuade anyone from buying this product.  I'm only hoping to learn if future updates would produce any of the articles mentioned in my previous post. I'm not only focusing on what is omitted and am asking with a full awareness of the many long (1200 word plus) articles that are included.

- WR82

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