Verses on Election and Free Will

Page 1 of 2 (23 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 22 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 7
Jay Fulton | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 20 2015 7:07 PM

How can I go about in Logos 6, finding all the verses that deal with election and all that suggest free will or man choosing God?

I appreciate any best practices for getting at the result.

Posts 1393
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 7:22 PM

You're likely to find what you need with a topical Bible.

...although you won't find any verses that teach free will. Wink just playing 

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 1393
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 7:24 PM

Here's some from Elwell's Topical Analysis of the Bible (excellent book)...

C. The Election of God
1. God’s Election of Angels
1 Tim. 5:21
2. God’s Election of Israel
Gen. 25:22–23; Deut. 4:37–38; Deut. 7:6–8; Deut. 10:15; Deut. 14:1–2; 1 Kings 3:8; 1 Chron. 16:13; Ps. 33:12; Ps. 65:4; Ps. 105:4–6, 43; Ps. 106:4–5; Ps. 135:4; Isa. 14:1; Isa. 41:8–10; Isa. 43:20–21; Isa. 44:1–2; Isa. 45:4; Isa. 49:7; Isa. 65:9, 15, 22; Jer. 30:22; Ezek. 20:5; Amos 3:2; Mal. 1:2–3; Acts 13:17; Rom. 9:1–5; Rom. 11:28–31
3. God’s Election of the Place of Worship
a) God’s Promise of a Place of Worship
Deut. 12:5; Deut. 31:11; Josh. 9:27
b) God’s Fulfillment of His Promise
(1) The Temple
1 Kings 9:3; 2 Kings 21:7; Matt. 21:12–13
(2) Jerusalem
1 Kings 11:13; 1 Kings 11:36; 1 Kings 14:21; 2 Kings 23:27; 2 Chron. 6:6; Neh. 1:9; Ps. 132:13; Zech. 1:17; Zech. 2:12; Zech. 3:2
4. God’s Election of the Messiah
Isa. 42:1; Luke 9:35; Luke 23:35; 1 Pet. 1:18–20; 1 Pet. 2:4–6
5. God’s Election to Salvation of Believers and the Believing Community
1 Kings 19:18; Matt. 11:25–26; Matt. 13:10–11; Matt. 22:14; Matt. 24:22; Mark 13:20, 22, 27; Luke 18:7; John 6:37, 39; John 15:16, 19; John 17:6; Acts 13:48; Rom. 8:33; Rom. 9:22–26; Rom. 11:5; Eph. 1:4–5; Col. 3:12; 1 Thess. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1; James 1:18; James 2:5; 1 Pet. 1:1–2; 1 Pet. 2:9; 1 Pet. 5:13; 2 John 1; 2 John 13; Rev. 17:14
6. God’s Election of Individuals
a) The Election of Abraham
Gen. 18:19; Neh. 9:7
b) The Election of Jacob
Rom. 9:10–13
c) The Election of Judah
1 Chron. 28:4; Ps. 78:68
d) The Election of Moses
Ps. 106:23
e) The Election of Zerubbabel
Hag. 2:23
f) The Election of Witnesses to Christ’s Resurrection
Acts 10:41
g) The Election of Matthias
Acts 1:24, 26
h) The Election of Paul
Acts 9:15; Acts 22:13–14
7. God’s Election of People to an Office
a) The Election of Priests
(1) Aaron as High Priest
Exod. 28:1, 29, 34–38; Num. 16:5, 16–17, 19–21, 39–40; Num. 17:5, 8; 1 Sam. 2:27–28
(2) Levi’s Tribe as Priests
Deut. 10:8; Deut. 18:1, 5; Deut. 21:5; 2 Chron. 29:5, 11
b) The Election of Kings
(1) The Promise of Their Election
Deut. 17:15
(2) Saul’s Election
1 Sam. 9:15–17; 1 Sam. 10:21, 24; 2 Sam. 21:6
(3) David’s Election
1 Sam. 16:1, 6–12; 2 Sam. 6:21
(4) Solomon’s Election
1 Chron. 28:5–7; 2 Chron. 1:8–10
c) The Election of Apostles
Luke 6:13; John 6:70; John 13:18; Acts 1:2; Acts 1:24–26
8. God’s Election to a Task
John 15:16; Acts 9:15; Acts 15:7
9. God’s Election and
a) The Command and the Need to Choose
Deut. 11:26–28; Deut. 30:15–16, 19; Josh. 24:15; 1 Chron. 28:9; Isa. 55:1, 6–7; Jer. 26:3; Ezek. 18:21–23; Joel 2:32; Amos 5:4–6; Matt. 11:28–30; Matt. 23:37; John 3:16; John 5:39–40; Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:11, 13; Rev. 22:17
b) Hardening of the Heart
(1) God Hardens the Human Heart
Exod. 4:21; Exod. 7:3, 13; Exod. 9:12; Exod. 10:1; Exod. 10:20; Exod. 10:27; Exod. 11:9–10; Exod. 14:4, 8; Exod. 14:17; Deut. 2:30; Josh. 11:19–20; Rom. 9:17–18
(2) Humans Harden Their Own Hearts
Exod. 8:15; Exod. 8:32; Exod. 9:15–17, 34–35; 1 Sam. 6:6; 2 Chron. 36:11–13; Ps. 95:8; Prov. 28:14; Ezek. 3:4–7; Heb. 3:8; Heb. 3:15; Heb. 4:7
(3) Sin Hardens the Human Heart
Dan. 5:20; Eph. 4:18; Heb. 3:13
c) Rejection by God
1 Sam. 2:25; 1 Kings 12:13–15; 2 Chron. 25:16; Isa. 29:2, 6, 9–13; Jer. 6:30; Mal. 1:2; John 17:12; Rom. 1:21–24; Rom. 9:22; Rom. 9:30–33; Rom. 11:7–8; 2 Cor. 13:5–6; 2 Thess. 2:11–12; 2 Tim. 3:8–9; Jude 4


Elwell, W. A., & Buckwalter, D. (1996). Topical analysis of the Bible: with the New International Version (Vol. 5). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House.

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 7:36 PM

James Taylor:

You're likely to find what you need with a topical Bible.

...although you won't find any verses that teach free will. Wink just playing 



Though in my view, the verses may choose you.

Here are a couple verses people usually try to use to poke holes in election.

Jn 3:16 for god so loved the World (this is usually argued as everyone, though you can make a case in greek for it to be translated elect, or christian world).

Christ died for the sins of the whole world. 1jn 2:2 (though the calvinist would argue that it was sufficient for all, but only efficient for the elect).

There are others... But I am tired, and thats probably a good start especially in conjunction with the Elwell list.

On the other side: The book of Romans and other pauline literature. Seriously though, as I recall rm 8:28-end, and romans 9 talk about this issue. EG those he foreknew he also predestined, those he predestined... etc. I attended a C&MA bible college, and graduated a reformed baptist. Go figure.

Also here is an article from ISBE (which is pretty decent usually) on election. I haven't read it to be honest, but its chok full of scripture. Based on the citations its going to be from the reformed position I should think.



ELECTION [Heb. bāḥar—‘choose’; Gk. eklogḗ—‘chosen’]. In both the OT and NT, a divine choosing of man, individually or corporately, either to salvation and eternal life, or to a special office or work. The term “the elect” in both Testaments applies mainly to God’s elect people, chosen unto eternal life (2 S. 21:6; 1 Ch. 16:13; Ps. 105:6, 43; 106:5, 23; Isa. 42:1; 43:20; Mt. 24:22, 24, 31; Rom. 8:33; Col. 3:12; 1 Pet. 1:2, etc.). See ELECT.
When man first sinned his fellowship with God suffered a disastrous breach, for man declared his independence of his Creator (Gen. 3; Rom. 1:21ff.). Yet at the same time God in His grace introduced immediately into history (Gen. 3:15f) the revelation of redemption, so that from the beginning one finds redeemed men who walked in faith and obedience to God (He. 11:4–7). Thus from Gen. 4 on there is a people of God who live in righteousness and truth. Yet, while such is the case, no direct reference appears in the early chapters of Genesis to the idea of election.
The first clear statement of election is in connection with Abraham, although the account of God’s call to him to go into Canaan (Gen. 12:1) does not specifically state this. One finds such an explanation given later in Israel’s history (Neh. 9:7; cf. Dt. 7:6ff.). Within two generations of Abraham, however, the idea of election had become clear, for it is stated that God chose Jacob rather than, Esau (Gen. 25:24ff.; cf. Mal. 1:2ff.; Rom. 9:13f.). In all the cases of specific divine election and calling during the patriarchal age, one finds that God took action in order to bring His elect into a covenant relation with Himself. Thus neither at this point nor later may one separate election from God’s covenant grace. On His own initiative He made His covenant, which applied not merely to elect individuals but also to their descendants, circumcision being the covenant sign and seal (Gen. 17:9ff.; Ex. 12:44ff.; Josh. 5:2ff.).
By virtue of God’s election of the fathers, Israel became God’s elect nation (Dt. 4:37; 7:6f, 10:15; 14:2), and for this reason God, after He had delivered them from Egypt (Ex. 19:3ff), entered into a covenant relation with the people as a whole at Mt. Sinai. By this covenant Israel became a nation separated from all others that it might act as the repository of God’s revelation for the rest of mankind (Rom. 9:5). Thus, although Israel experienced God’s special favor, at the same time it had a special worldwide obligation.
Yet the election of Israel did not mean that every Israelite trusted in God’s promises and faithfully served Him. Throughout the history of Israel one sees that the nation varied greatly in its obedience to its covenant Lord. Only too frequently Israelites believed that because they had descended physically from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, God’s covenant remained inalienable despite their unbelief and their disobedience. As long as they fulfilled the ritual requirements of the law most Israelites felt they would remain secure in God’s favor. Against this assumption Moses warned them, as did the prophets, both early and late, in no uncertain terms (Dt. 28:15ff.; 1 K. 21:21; Isa. 1:10ff.; Hos. 1:1ff; Rom. 10:19ff.). Yet the nation as a whole refused to hear, and eventually God carried them off into captivity. In this way He showed that the external election of a group or of a nation to political and ecclesiastical favor did not necessarily constitute a vital covenant relationship between the creature and the Creator. This could come only by God’s entering into this relationship with elect individuals.
The existence at all times within Israel of a faithful, believing remnant made this quite clear. One might liken Israel to two concentric circles, the inner circle consisting of those individuals whom God had chosen and effectually called to faith and obedience, and who consequently sought to serve Him. The outer circle was made up of Israelites who, while outwardly professing the covenant and so claiming to be of the elect, in truth were not of the covenant people. The kingdom consisted of these two groups, the remnant real but invisible (except to the eye of God) in the visible outward kingdom. One finds them referred to in a number of places throughout the OT (1 K. 19:18; Isa. 1:9; 6:13; Zeph. 2:9; Joel 2:32; cf. Rom. 9:6ff.). From this remnant God chose the judges, David, the prophets, Zerubbabel, and others to serve Him as leaders of the people (1 S. 10:24; 16:8ff.; Ps. 105:26; Isa. 41:9). Thus the election to favor and salvation lay at the basis of election to service.
At the same time as God made clear by the prophets that only the elect remnant within Israel truly were His people, He also indicated that eventually the Gentiles too would enter the kingdom. This would take place according to His plan and purpose and would be effected by His election and calling (Isa. 2:2ff.; Hos. 2:23; Acts 15:15ff.; Rom. 9:22ff.; 11:13ff.). In this way individual election took precedence over national election, which meant in turn that the covenant with Israel rested upon that with Abraham, for only as God sovereignly chose and called individuals could they truly come to Him in reconciliation (cf. Gal. 3:15ff), and so truly become Abraham’s seed (Rom. 9:7; Gal. 3:26ff.).
Yet while considering the OT doctrine of election one also finds a number of references, particularly in Isaiah, to the Lord’s “elect servant” (Isa. 42:1; 65:9). The references appear to point to one individual specially called to a particular office and in whom the covenant God had a particular delight. This would seem to be the Messiah, who would save Israel from its sins, its election thus culminating with a redeemer.
As in all other aspects of God’s revelation the NT both continues and fulfils that which was revealed in the OT. Christ’s teachings contain many references to the elect and to God’s action in choosing and calling men to Himself in and through Christ (Mt. 24:22ff.; Mk. 13:20ff.; Lk. 18:7; Jn. 6:37, 65; 10:15f.). After His ascension He led the Church to see that God had chosen Gentiles to become members of the covenant people (Acts 15:5ff.; Gal. 2:11ff), and through the instrumentality of the apostle Paul in particular, revealed the doctrine in all its fulness (Rom. 9–11; Eph. 1).
As one attempts to understand the whole NT doctrine of election, one finds that, as in the OT, it centers upon the covenant of which Christ is the head. He is the elect of God (Lk. 23:35; 1 Pet. 2:4, 6). In the eternal covenant He is the one chosen to redeem sinners as their Representative. There is no teaching that Christ saves all men. Rather it is perfectly clear that God has elected certain individuals in Christ (Jn. 6:37; Eph. 1:4f.; cf. Rom. 8:28ff.). God the Father bestows His love upon the elect sinners because He sees them at all times in Christ, the Son, the elect Redeemer.
The apostle Paul points out quite clearly that God has chosen individuals that they might be His people in Christ. He has not chosen them because of any foreseen faith or good works, but simply according to His own holy and sovereign will (Rom. 9–11; Eph. 1:3–12). This choice by God is a selection for salvation. Some would hold that He had chosen them to receive the offer of salvation, but Paul repeatedly points out that, like the Jews of the OT, all men are in rebellion against God. Therefore, when He chooses men to redemption He actually predestines them to adoption as His children in Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:5). Christ has paid the penalty of sin for them as the head of the covenant people, and by His atonement He has merited for His elect the gift of the Holy Spirit who regenerates and converts the elect sinner, so that he places his faith in Christ (Jn. 6:39; 63ff.; 10:11ff.; 17:6ff.; Rom. 8:7ff., 29ff.; Eph. 2:4ff.; 1 Pet. 1:2).
The elect of God are chosen not only for salvation, but also for service. They should have the assurance of their calling and election which gives them confidence, strength, and a sense of responsibility (2 Pet. 1:10f.). This leads the Christian to a knowledge of his responsibility to serve Christ as his Lord in this world (Rom. 12; Eph. 1:4). In this way the elect glorify Christ as their covenant Lord to whom they owe all that they are and have (1 Cor. 6:20; 7:23).
But what of the nonelect? Even though they hear the gospel offering to them eternal life in Christ, they refuse to accept it. Consequently they come under the judgment and condemnation of God, not because they are nonelect, but because despite God’s revelation of His power and Godhead to all men, they have refused to glorify Him as God (Rom. 1:19–23). Therefore, God has given them up to sin so that their hearts are hardened against Him (Rom. 1:26ff.; 9:13ff.). Upon these rebels against His law will come God’s wrath in the final day of judgment (Mt. 12:24, 50; 25:14–46; Rev. 20:12–15).
Up to this point we have dealt with what the Scriptures teach. Yet many problems for which one can find no rational solution remain unresolved, nor do the Scriptures even hint at any kind of answer. As Paul points out in Rom. 9:19ff., one cannot call God to account for an answer but must simply submit to the revelation that God in His wisdom has seen fit to give men.
Probably the most pressing question that arises is: Why has God chosen some and not others? Men have endeavored through the ages to offer explanations by referring to foresight of faith, universal grace that must be improved, or some other rationalization. Barth finds the answer in the fact that everyone is chosen in Christ, who Himself is rejected on man’s behalf (CD, II/2, pp. 176ff). But the only answer seems to be that man by virtue of his sinful corruption can and will do nothing for himself. Therefore God, under no obligation to save any of His rebellious creatures, of His own free, sovereign, and holy will determines to save some. Beyond this lies the mystery of the very nature and being of God Himself. Man may not and cannot go further.
See also PREDESTINATION; CHOOSE.

Bibliography—Calvin Inst. iii.21ff; L. Boettner, Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (1932), ch 21; C. Hodge, Systematic Theology (1871–73), pt III, ch 1; B. B. Warfield, Biblical Doctrines (1929), pp. 3–67; G. C. Berkouwer, Divine Election (Eng. tr. 1960).


W. S. Reid, “Election,” ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988), 56–57.

The church where I am pastor, and I have been working through romans together. We hit romans 8 last week, and the former pastor (an arminian and dear dear friend of mine) was amen-ing along with everyone else on God's sovereignty, God choosing us, and so forth. I think ultimately the two positions are not as far apart as the hard-line advocates would like us to think.

EDIT: Fixed Typo changed rm 8:29 to 8:28 which was what I intended to type in the first place.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 640
Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 8:11 PM

abondservant:

James Taylor:

You're likely to find what you need with a topical Bible.

...although you won't find any verses that teach free will. Wink just playing 



Though in my view, the verses may choose you.

Here are a couple verses people usually try to use to poke holes in election.

Jn 3:16 for god so loved the World (this is usually argued as everyone, though you can make a case in greek for it to be translated elect, or christian world).

Christ died for the sins of the whole world. 1jn 2:2 (though the calvinist would argue that it was sufficient for all, but only efficient for the elect).

There are others... But I am tired, and thats probably a good start especially in conjunction with the Elwell list.

On the other side: The book of Romans and other pauline literature. Seriously though, as I recall rm 8:29-end, and romans 9 talk about this issue. EG those he foreknew he also predestined, those he predestined... etc. I attended a C&MA bible college, and graduated a reformed baptist. Go figure.

The sovereignty of God and the free will of man are found from Genesis to Revelation. Unfortunately, some people can only see out of one eye.

The passage provided above from Romans 8 is often seen from one eye. But the chain starts in verse 28: "And we know that for those who love [present tense participle] God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." (ESV).

The verse starts with those who love God in the present. It's this group who love God for whom all things work together for good "for those who are called according to his purpose” (ESV).

So the chain begins in verse 28, where believers continue to exercise their free will by loving Christ in the present. Verse 29 cannot be understood correctly (election) unless the first link (free will) of the chain is considered.

it's not about "poking holes in election". It's about interpreting passages grammatically and contextually without a predefined Calvinistic grid.

When respected rules of hermeneutics are bypassed for the sake of theology, John 3:16 can state anything one wants including making the "world" only of the elect.

The Calvinist (or anyone including Arminians) can argue anything they want for 1 John 2:2. It's the author's intent when "drawn out" using established rules of hermeneutics without a theological overlay that matters.

in Christ!

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 8:17 PM

Into Grace:

abondservant:

James Taylor:

You're likely to find what you need with a topical Bible.

...although you won't find any verses that teach free will. Wink just playing 



Though in my view, the verses may choose you.

Here are a couple verses people usually try to use to poke holes in election.

Jn 3:16 for god so loved the World (this is usually argued as everyone, though you can make a case in greek for it to be translated elect, or christian world).

Christ died for the sins of the whole world. 1jn 2:2 (though the calvinist would argue that it was sufficient for all, but only efficient for the elect).

There are others... But I am tired, and thats probably a good start especially in conjunction with the Elwell list.

On the other side: The book of Romans and other pauline literature. Seriously though, as I recall rm 8:29-end, and romans 9 talk about this issue. EG those he foreknew he also predestined, those he predestined... etc. I attended a C&MA bible college, and graduated a reformed baptist. Go figure.

The sovereignty of God and the free will of man are found from Genesis to Revelation. Unfortunately, some people can only see out of one eye.

The passage provided above from Romans 8 is often seen from one eye. But the chain starts in verse 28: "And we know that for those who love [present tense participle] God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." (ESV).

The verse starts with those who love God in the present. It's this group who love God for whom all things work together for good "for those who are called according to his purpose” (ESV).

So the chain begins in verse 28, where believers continue to exercise their free will by loving Christ in the present. Verse 29 cannot be understood correctly (election) unless the first link (free will) of the chain is considered.

it's not about "poking holes in election". It's about interpreting passages grammatically and contextually without a predefined Calvinistic grid.

When respected rules of hermeneutics are bypassed for the sake of theology, John 3:16 can state anything one wants including making the "world" only of the elect.

The Calvinist (or anyone including Arminians) can argue anything they want for 1 John 2:2. It's the author's intent when "drawn out" using established rules of hermeneutics without a theological overlay that matters.

in Christ!

Firstly I had intended to type 8:28, and fat fingered the 8. The original post has been amended.

Secondly, if I were going to respond to the rest of it (and I'm not) I'd do so on ChristianDiscourse.com

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 975
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 5:00 AM

Into Grace:
The sovereignty of God and the free will of man are found from Genesis to Revelation. Unfortunately, some people can only see out of one eye.

I am still chortling!

Posts 2068
LogosEmployee

Jay Fulton:

How can I go about in Logos 6, finding all the verses that deal with election and all that suggest free will or man choosing God?

I appreciate any best practices for getting at the result.

Try going to the Factbook topic on "Election". From there you'll have access not only to verses dealing with election, but also resources in your library dealing with the subject.

Posts 106
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 7:14 AM

You can start by doing a Bible search using the word "whoever" or if you are using the KJV, you can use "whosoever". 

Posts 776
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 7:25 AM

Tony Walker:

That was really cute.  Smile

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 2394
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 7:26 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Jay Fulton:

How can I go about in Logos 6, finding all the verses that deal with election and all that suggest free will or man choosing God?

Try going to the Factbook topic on "Election". From there you'll have access not only to verses dealing with election, but also resources in your library dealing with the subject.

Does Factbook topic on Free Will also exist?

Posts 1048
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 7:37 AM

David Ames:

Does Factbook topic on Free Will also exist?



God didn't allow them to make one. Wink

Posts 2394
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 7:49 AM

Here is why we do NOT use our understanding of scripture to write laws. Found in my library while searching for “fee will”:

"An 'Ordinance for the Suppression of Blasphemies and Heresies,' which Vane and Cromwell had long held at bay, was passed by triumphant majorities. Any man—ran this terrible statute—denying the doctrine of the Trinity or of the Divinity of Christ, or that the books of Scripture are the 'word of God,' or the resurrection of the body, or a future day of Judgment, and refusing on trial to abjure his heresy, 'shall suffer the pain of death.' Any man declaring (among a long list of other errors) 'that man by nature hath free will to turn to God,' that there is a purgatory, that images are lawful, that infant baptism is unlawful; any one denying the obligation of observing the Lord's day, or asserting 'that the church government by presbytery is anti-Christian or unlawful,' shall, on refusal to renounce his errors, 'be commanded to prison.'"—Green's Larger History of England, book VII., chap. 10, par. 11.

Those of us that believe in Free Will would no longer have access to Logos while sitting in a prison cell.

Posts 7
Jay Fulton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2015 5:51 PM

Thanks everyone!  I appreciate the feedback.  I don't think Free Will is an option in Factbook. I'll use the topical Bible and look at some of the other resources some of you recommended.  

Cheers mates!

Posts 2394
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2015 2:14 PM

Try looking at http://christiandiscourse.com/t/free-will-predestination-elect/925 

Spoiler alert:

Free Will lost.. 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2015 2:33 PM

I have never met a Calvinist who was not convinced he was of the elect.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2015 3:48 PM

Super.Tramp:

I have never met a Calvinist who was not convinced he was of the elect.



An interesting correlation is that there are quite few protestant individuals pastors, theologians and missionaries who think their beliefs and those of Jesus (and/or the disciples) don't line up either. IE most people protestants (can't speak for the catholics or those from an un-orthodox tradition) think what they believe is what Christ believed and taught to his disciples when he walked the earth.

Based upon just the diversity in the logos catalog, some one has to be wrong.

True to the statement though, I don't believe that I am.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2015 3:58 PM

abondservant:
True to the statement though, I don't believe that I am.

I did not understand your redacted paragraph but you made my point, I think.

(I am not a Protestant, or Catholic, or Orthodox.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2015 4:01 PM

Super.Tramp:

abondservant:
True to the statement though, I don't believe that I am.

I did not understand your redacted paragraph but you made my point, I think.

(I am not a Protestant, or Catholic, or Orthodox.)

We are saying the same thing, but mine was just in a broader sense.

It isn't only calvinists that are quite sure of their beliefs. Otherwise they wouldn't be beliefs.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Page 1 of 2 (23 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS