Logos 7 Anytime Soon?

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Michael Miles | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 10 2015 5:46 PM

Hello,

I do not own a Logos Base Package and rather currently use just a handful of individual titles in the Logos 6.7 free engine on my Mac and PC.  If Logos 7 is something that will be released in perhaps the next 4 months or so, I would like to entirely skip purchasing a Logos 6 Base Package and just sit on my hands until 7 arrives.  Is there any sort of firm estimate on when Logos 7 might be released?

Thank you,

Michael

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2015 5:52 PM

Michael Miles:

Hello,

I do not own a Logos Base Package and rather currently use just a handful of individual titles in the Logos 6.7 free engine on my Mac and PC.  If Logos 7 is something that will be released in perhaps the next 4 months or so, I would like to entirely skip purchasing a Logos 6 Base Package and just sit on my hands until 7 arrives.  Is there any sort of firm estimate on when Logos 7 might be released?

Thank you,

Michael

Michael,

No, we won't know when Logos 7 will be released. Gauging from the past, there is usually a 2-year span between releases in the fall and we're at the half-way point now. On the positive side, if you purchase a package now, dynamic pricing will apply to any packages you want to buy when Logos 7 is released.

Posts 62
Michael Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2015 6:08 PM

Bill Anderson:
No, we won't know when Logos 7 will be released. Gauging from the past, there is usually a 2-year span between releases in the fall and we're at the half-way point now. On the positive side, if you purchase a package now, dynamic pricing will apply to any packages you want to buy when Logos 7 is released.

Thank you, Bill, for your help.  If I purchase individual titles now that are in a Base Package, will I see a reduction in the price of that Base Package when I go to purchase said Base Package?  Would I get full credit for the dollar amount that I have already invested towards resources that are in a Base Package, or would that investment in individual resources be diminished in value when the time comes to invest in a Base Package?

I just posted concerning a purchasing strategy and I'm just fishing for information on how this all works these days at Logos.

Thanks again,

Michael

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2015 7:43 PM

Michael Miles:
 If I purchase individual titles now that are in a Base Package, will I see a reduction in the price of that Base Package when I go to purchase said Base Package?

Yes, provided that resource is the same Base package in L 7.

Michael Miles:
Would I get full credit for the dollar amount that I have already invested towards resources that are in a Base Package,

No. You get partial credit.

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Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2015 8:19 PM

So basically to summarize Michael:

Lets say books X Y & Z are in L6 starter, and you purchase L6 starter.

In a year or so when L7 is released it contains books Z, A, and B.

So you are getting new books - A and B. You retain ownership of X, Y and Z (now owning X, Y, Z, A, and B), and don't have to purchase Z a second time(IE dynamic pricing discount).

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2015 11:56 PM

Michael Miles:

I purchase individual titles now that are in a Base Package, will I see a reduction in the price of that Base Package when I go to purchase said Base Package?  Would I get full credit for the dollar amount that I have already invested towards resources that are in a Base Package, or would that investment in individual resources be diminished in value when the time comes to invest in a Base Package?

Michael - I am not sure that you are looking at the best strategy specially if you actually want to use the base package. The engine (which as you know is free) will be upgraded, eventually, to Logos 7 but there is no guarantee that the base packages will change at that point. There may be a few tweaks at the edges or there may be a complete reshuffle. 

In the past when there has been a reshuffle there have been pleas to make old packages available because customers wanted a particular resource and now find it is not in the base package.

Have you considered testing the water by subscribing to Logos Now for a while - it might give you an idea of just how much use you would get from a base package without a substantial investment.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 4:27 AM

Mike Binks:

Have you considered testing the water by subscribing to Logos Now for a while - it might give you an idea of just how much use you would get from a base package without a substantial investment.

Did you mean Logos Cloud ? Logos Now is mostly about new features and new datasets supplementing owned base packages, whereas Cloud is intended to give a large bundle of resources and features to non-owners of base packages which would fit well in this case.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 4:35 AM

Lynden Williams:

Michael Miles:
 If I purchase individual titles now that are in a Base Package, will I see a reduction in the price of that Base Package when I go to purchase said Base Package?

Yes, provided that resource is the same Base package in L 7.

Michael Miles:
Would I get full credit for the dollar amount that I have already invested towards resources that are in a Base Package,

No. You get partial credit.

Which is worth iterating. Since base packages give around 90% discount on the regular prices of resources included, the partial credit will be only around 10% - so the reduction might only be seen when calculating with a very sharp pencil (the $40 reduction one would get for owning a $399 commentary set don't do much to the price of a base package.

Buying expensive individual products at full price that are in base packages is a very expensive way of building one's library.

It might be cheaper to buy a base package than e.g. three larger commentary series contained therein.   

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 6:25 AM

Bill Anderson:

Michael,

No, we won't know when Logos 7 will be released. Gauging from the past, there is usually a 2-year span between releases in the fall and we're at the half-way point now. On the positive side, if you purchase a package now, dynamic pricing will apply to any packages you want to buy when Logos 7 is released.

Bill, the reason why people began to ask the release of L7 much earlier because we cant predict the release day by looking at Logos previous cycles. See Bob's post he posted about a year ago:

Bob Pritchett:

 

2. Shorter cycles. (This is the new part.)

We're not going to retreat to three or four year release cycles. We believe it's a false conceit that simply taking more time will fix everything. Some quality issues don't show up until thousands of people test thousands of combinations of hardware, network connection, and other software installs. Some quality issues are differences of opinion, and we need to hear the other opinions to know a change needs to be made. 

In a world where the iPhone is updated annually and that feels (to some of us) like not often enough, where Google Chrome silently updates every six weeks, and where Facebook and other web sites change behavior, layout, and functionality every single day, it's just weird for an increasingly-connected product to go three years without any significant changes.

A shorter cycle means new ideas get feedback faster. A shorter cycle means bad ideas don't waste as many resources before being abandoned. And a shorter cycle lets us serve everyone. If you don't like shorter cycles, you can just skip them. Make your own 'long cycle' by opting out of the short-cycle offering for one, two, or three years. 

 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 8:17 AM

NB.Mick:
Did you mean Logos Cloud ?

Of course thats what I meant!

in Humpty Dumpty mode...

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 8:26 AM

The last couple of major updates have come out in early November. They like to bring new toys to the big theological meetings that are coming up in the next week or two. Based on that it isn't likely to happen this year.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 9:50 AM

I will not track it down but Bob did say after the quote there they were going to a two year. Model with New features coming out immediately in Logos Now. Bob has also recently hinted Logo Now customers likely will have cheaper upgrade paths to Logos 7 but such an upgrade will not include everything offered by Logos Now. So Logos 7 will not replace Logos Now. Anyone who wants a new version Now can have it, it is called Logos Now. In addition to new features you get access to the Web APP, and book previews and I think some free resources also. 

Dan

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 10:32 AM

abondservant:
So you are getting new books - A and B. You retain ownership of X, Y and Z (now owning X, Y, Z, A, and B), and don't have to purchase Z a second time(IE dynamic pricing discount).

Yes, correct!

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Posts 62
Michael Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 5:33 PM

I do truly appreciate all of the responses that you have so graciously given regarding my inquiry.  It appears that Logos Now is set up to augment the libraries primarily of people with a Gold or better base package, which would be about the minimum that I would be able to use for original language studies.  So, I'd still need a base package to enjoy the benefits of Logos Now, from that perspective.

In regards to individual purchases prior to making a base package investment, I guess that I will have to sit down with my accountant and tally up the cost of original language resources that I would actually use and compare that to what a base package that would contain all or most of those resources and then look at the results.

If I do not buy a base package, then I will miss out on some of the additional functionality that only comes with the base packages, such as the datasets, interactive media, and media collections, which seem to pretty much culminate at the Gold base package.  Would these items actually be of any value to a person that primarily uses tools for language studies?  Perhaps if I do not need these and the value is not there in a base package for original language studies I might be better off going piecemeal.

It appears that I'll have to look at this from different angles to see what the best fit is for me.  I do not really want a lot of resources that I will never open or use.

Thanks again, gentlemen, for your help and responses to my questions.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 5:48 PM

Michael Miles:
 It appears that Logos Now is set up to augment the libraries primarily of people with a Gold or better base package, which would be about the minimum that I would be able to use for original language studies.  So, I'd still need a base package to enjoy the benefits of Logos Now, from that perspective.

That's the reason we rather recommended Logos Cloud than Now. This is basically a rental system, but it will give you a gold-sized base package with features and datasets. See my link above or this post by Phil Gons introducing it: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/105182.aspx   

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 62
Michael Miles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 5:57 PM

NB.Mick:

Michael Miles:
 It appears that Logos Now is set up to augment the libraries primarily of people with a Gold or better base package, which would be about the minimum that I would be able to use for original language studies.  So, I'd still need a base package to enjoy the benefits of Logos Now, from that perspective.

That's the reason we rather recommended Logos Cloud than Now. This is basically a rental system, but it will give you a gold-sized base package with features and datasets. See my link above or this post by Phil Gons introducing it: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/105182.aspx   

I'm not quite yet all that interested in a web application for my studies, but I do thank you for that information.

Is it possible to cross grade from no base package?  That way I could get the datasets that appear to have very small pricing individually but a very high wall in pricing to gain access to.  Then I could just land the Hebrew XL and Greek XL and go to town.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 8:05 PM

Michael Miles:
I'm not quite yet all that interested in a web application for my studies, but I do thank you for that information.

Once again, Faithlife has done a poor job of nomenclature. "Logos Cloud" does include web access, but really, it is just a base package rental program. The resources will download to your computer just like they would if you purchased a base package. It is simply a different model of usage. If you don't want to own and would rather rent, you would want to consider "Logos Cloud." 

Michael Miles:
Is it possible to cross grade from no base package?

Sure, but I don't know how much advantage there would be. (Some users do just that). Many feature require both data sets AND resources tagged to take advantage of the feature.

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Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2015 3:50 PM

Hello Miles, it seems to me if they are going to a two year system of updating, I would think Logos 7 could be right around fall 2016.  I think Logos 5 came out in late Oct. 2012 & Logos 6 came out in Oct. 2014.  So Oct./Nov. 2016 release for Logos 7 would make sense.  Maybe sooner, who knows but according to last two this has been the consistent trend.

 I could give you pro's and cons to getting Logos 6 or Logos Now, but I think you're getting good wisdom here.  I'm sure L7 will be really nice but I'm not sure I would want to wait that long, but that is me. I don't know what your needs are of the software and how fast you need the tools.  That you will have to decide.   

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2015 4:22 PM

Michael Miles:
Is it possible to cross grade from no base package?  That way I could get the datasets that appear to have very small pricing individually but a very high wall in pricing to gain access to.  Then I could just land the Hebrew XL and Greek XL and go to town.

It's highly likely that you're going to need to buy a base package or crossgrade. Many of the tools and datasets that you'll find useful are only available that way.

If you're most interested in Greek/Hebrew, then the obvious base package is this one: https://www.logos.com/product/43566/biblical-languages. It's about the same cost as Greek XL + Hebrew XL. You can't buy it online unless you qualify for an academic discount. Do you?

It doesn't include BDAG or HALOT. If you purchase them at the same time as your base package, you can get them for $229.95. You can also get a 15% discount on any of the Greek/Hebrew bundles if you wish.

If you're not convinced about the need to buy a base package, tell us specifically what you're interested in doing, and we can let you know how that would work with/without a base package.

By the way, you asked about upgrading later, and how future discounts work. Logos offers dynamic pricing on most (but not all) packages. It works by calculating the total value of all the resources in a package, and then by calculating the total value of all the resources you own. You then get a discount based on the percentage value that you own.

Imagine a package made up of six resources, valued at $100, $40, $30, $25, $20 and $10. It's worth $225, but as a package it sells for $175. Now imagine you owned the $100 resource and the $30 resource. You wouldn't get $130 discount. Instead Logos would calculate that you owned $130/$225, which is 58%. You'd therefore get a 58% discount on the $175, which is a discount of $101.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2015 4:50 PM

Whatever your  background there are many very useful packages out there. To Get the GOLD in any of the denominational flavours gives you all Logos 6 datasets. Although even the starter packages will get you interlinear bibles to help you study the greek and hebrew behind the english translations. Please note Catholic BASIC does not contain interlinears. A Starter may well be all you need. And give you a nice Library to start off with.

-Dan

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