40% discount on Z titles for Pradis owners

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 5:35 AM

If anyone is interested, I posted my thoughts on my blog here:

http://biblesoftwarenewsletter.blogspot.com/2010/02/zondervan-when-publishers-decide-to-be.html

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:28 AM

Although it feels that at this point we are rehashing the same arguments over and over again, I am making one more attempt at clarifying the issues for those who -- I don't understand why you do this -- keep arguing against those of us who feel cheated.

1) In a world of sharks, there is no guarantees at all and no concept of loyalty. You pay, you get and that's it. What happens after is either appreciated or not, but as the borg would say "irrelevant".

2) However, it is widely recognized even among the sharks -- in the business world -- that there is such a concept as loyalty in business, based on relationship. Some of the arguers here keep on referring to 1) while we are talking about 2). We're not interested in type 1) arguments, we are complaining about 2).

We know that by the letter of the law, Zondervan has not done anything illegal. By the rule of the shark, we got what we paid for. But from the standpoint of loyalty and relationship, Zondervan is not treating its customers very well (remembering that by buying Zondervan products through Logos, we are STILL Zondervan customers).

The fact is that it is a fair expectation that a reputable company will also be dependable. When you buy an ITouch, you expect your investment to be worth a certain time and that adequate support will be provided for a reasonable length time. Hardware has -- of course -- a much shorter life expectancy than software.

But even software has an end of support cycle, we know that. Still, consider what EVEN Microsoft does (a very profitable company). They don't sell you a product as it is for the current OS and that's it (the shark rule). They release updates and help extend product life over several OS releases. By the time a product support cycle is ended, the customer would not want it anyway because it is obsolete (it is functionality, not content that the software is about).

With regard to Zondervan Pradis product, there is some functionality, but the main product is the content. I did not buy Pradis because it has always been a lousy product (it's not that much better than Ages Software's modified PDFs). I bought NIDOTTE because I wanted it on the computer and ZONDERVAN WOULD NOT let Logos publish its products. We WERE FORCED to go Pradis by Zondervan's monopoly in the first place or renounce electronic access to these resources. I think some of the arguers forget or are not aware of that.

Already at the time, those of us who were Logos users resented this policy from Zondervan and felt that to have access to these biblical resources we had to live with Zondervan's policies. Those who used Logos newsgroups would remember the eternal refrain in suggestions. It went like this: I wish Logos could publish book X. Reply: book X is published by Zondervan, so you can forget it.

So, like it or not, we bought Pradis products. We enjoyed the content with a very limited shell. Finally Zondervan "agrees" to let Logos sell their products. Why? Because they are letting go of Pradis. In other words, no need to protect the monopoly anymore. Logos is growing in popularity, Pradis stinks, so this is where the profit is now. And NOW after forcing the customer's hand, the only option we are given is a discount that makes us buy the product all over again for even more than what we already paid? PLEASE.

Why has Microsoft be brought to trial? Why are there monopoly laws? Is it not because there is the recognition that companies unethically force the customer's hand? If the lines of reasoning used in this forum were applied, then let Microsoft shrewdly secure the market for themselves. And let those who would complain be told: "you don't have to buy Microsoft products, but if you do, that's your choice and that's the way it works, period". Right. The fact is that monopolies are unethical. The fact is that it is unethical for a company to standardize product usage and then take advantage of it through monopoly practices. And Zondervan is a profitable company which business policies don't seem much different than that for which Microsoft has been tried and fined.

I would receive with appreciation and gratitude supportive suggestions. Something like, "I understand your frustration and in the absence of what would be right, could this help...?" Some suggestions are presented in that way. But I do not appreciate the patch-up solutions that are presented as counter-arguments. Also, some of the suggestions are a stretch. Come on, folks, we don't want to have to use duct tape to keep on using our Pradis products.

Why in the world do you guys argue with us who are trying to pass a message to Zondervan here? This is what WE are trying to do. We are not asking for a cure of positive thinking or the spiritual way here.

I don't mean to be abrasive but I am annoyed. I apologize for any offence. Say, do some of you get a commission from Zondervan?

Blessings,

Francis

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 12:27 PM

Francis, except for the last sentence, i thought your perspective, especially the opening half, was very good.  Thank you.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 12:38 PM

Francis:
Although it feels that at this point we are rehashing the same arguments over and over again, I am making one more attempt at clarifying the issues for those who -- I don't understand why you do this -- keep arguing against those of us who feel cheated.

I do understand your position. I do normally bypass this topic. What I don't understand, more so on some other topics, is why some think the forums are the appropriate venue of the complaints. If, when I logged into Microsoft development studio forums, I found pages and pages harping on Stylus Studio I would wonder about the quality of Microsoft based upon the image it would give me of Microsoft users. [emoticon of me ducking for cover]

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 1:18 PM

You don't need to duck for cover, MJ. I trust that (my and other) expressions of annoyance can remain within the bounds of respect and courtesy and the grace of Christ our Lord.

Your question is legitimate. I can only speak for myself. The forums have been functioning at several levels, some of which justify a discussion such as this: 1) It's been a place of interaction with Logos, of expression of user's voices. It's been hoped even from the time of the newsgroup that this can also make its way back to Zondervan. 2) It's been a place of community.

The complaints here are not about Logos and should have no incidence on the public image of Logos Bible Software.

Blessings,

Francis

PS: The "getting a commission from Zondervan" line was tongue-in-cheek.

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Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 1:39 PM

Francis:
Although it feels that at this point we are rehashing the same arguments over and over again, I am making one more attempt at clarifying the issues for those who -- I don't understand why you do this -- keep arguing against those of us who feel cheated.

Francis,

I understand your frustration, but I just can't sympathize with it. Its seems you are unhappy because you don't want to pay full price to replace your old dinged up copy of a book with the new glitzy hardcover edition just released.

I'm just trying to remind us all here that this is how its ALWAYS been regarding things we've invested in going obsolete. Is this not true?  Anyone ever bought a VHS tape and then been given the chance to upgrade to DVD for a discount price? Anyone bought a cassette and then got the MP3's at a discount? If you buy a digital book, do they automatically give you a discount if you have the print edition in your library already?  Logos and their other publishers don't even do that; should we be unhappy with them now?  Were any of these ever replaced by the latest and greatest at a discount from the publisher because you had them previously?

I don't think there's a distinction between "sharks" and "loyalty" because taking advantage of double-dippers is the industry standard. Even Logos and their other publishers do this. They don't give you free digital editions just because you have the print-edition in your library. You have to buy them. We're loyal to a book company not because they give us perpetual rights to new updated editions, but because of the quality of resources they offer.

I'm sorry that you feel burned by the current discount program, but what can I say? Are you this unhappy every time a book goes digital that you already have in print-form? Do you get this frustrated if you have to buy the same book AGAIN just to have it on your computer?  This is the same: a book is a book is a book, no matter the form.

You get 40% off of the pre-pub price right now, and that's a much better deal than most print-books get when they go digital.  I mean, if you had invested a $1000 in print resources, and they went digital for $600, would you be this vocal about it?  Or would you just express disappointment that you can't buy the book AGAIN? Would you feel entitled to an even greater discount just because you had them in print?  Or would that idea not even cross your mind?

Like I said before, I think we're caught up on the digital aspect of a digital book, and seem to forget that its the book, the information, that we're paying for, and not the shiny new package.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 2:09 PM

I have often found that to stop head-butting a wall goes a long way in relieving the headache. I opt for Tylenol at this point.

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J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 2:46 PM

Ultimately the money will be the judge, to Zondervan, if their decision has been a good one or not. (my hope is not)

-Let me say that I am glad/thankful that everyone is not just a sheep who is simply willing to allow companies to lead them wherever they (the companies) dictate. 

-Freedom & Capitalism work well together most of the time...

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Westie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 2:49 PM

Greg Masone:
Anyone ever bought a VHS tape and then been given the chance to upgrade to DVD for a discount price

This is not a fair comparison.  DVD represented a new technology from VCR, and there was a substantial period of time between these technologies.  Z essentially forced anyone who wanted to have their product electronically, to invest in Pradis. 

Here's a better analogy; Zondervan basically asked people like Francis to get married, after they accepted their proposal, Zondervan never kissed them, and eventually kicked them out of their house.  I never purchased Pradis, but I understand how Francis's would feel.  Put yourself in his shoes... If Logos did this to you, you would be just as unhappy. 

That said I think that LOGOS was smart to bring these resources into their platform, no matter how you feel about Zondervan.  I think that LOGOS has tried to get the best deal possible for their existing customers that had invested in Pradis.  I think that it strgethens LOGOS's position in the Bible software industry, which helps all LOGOS users.  People like Francis have the right to be unhappy, we who have not invested in Pradis should not try and convince them otherwise.

Blessings

Mark

 

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 3:55 PM

Greg Masone:

Francis:
Although it feels that at this point we are rehashing the same arguments over and over again, I am making one more attempt at clarifying the issues for those who -- I don't understand why you do this -- keep arguing against those of us who feel cheated.

Francis,

I understand your frustration, but I just can't sympathize with it. Its seems you are unhappy because you don't want to pay full price to replace your old dinged up copy of a book with the new glitzy hardcover edition just released.

I'm just trying to remind us all here that this is how its ALWAYS been regarding things we've invested in going obsolete. Is this not true?  Anyone ever bought a VHS tape and then been given the chance to upgrade to DVD for a discount price? Anyone bought a cassette and then got the MP3's at a discount? If you buy a digital book, do they automatically give you a discount if you have the print edition in your library already?  Logos and their other publishers don't even do that; should we be unhappy with them now?  Were any of these ever replaced by the latest and greatest at a discount from the publisher because you had them previously?

I don't think there's a distinction between "sharks" and "loyalty" because taking advantage of double-dippers is the industry standard. Even Logos and their other publishers do this. They don't give you free digital editions just because you have the print-edition in your library. You have to buy them. We're loyal to a book company not because they give us perpetual rights to new updated editions, but because of the quality of resources they offer.

I'm sorry that you feel burned by the current discount program, but what can I say? Are you this unhappy every time a book goes digital that you already have in print-form? Do you get this frustrated if you have to buy the same book AGAIN just to have it on your computer?  This is the same: a book is a book is a book, no matter the form.

You get 40% off of the pre-pub price right now, and that's a much better deal than most print-books get when they go digital.  I mean, if you had invested a $1000 in print resources, and they went digital for $600, would you be this vocal about it?  Or would you just express disappointment that you can't buy the book AGAIN? Would you feel entitled to an even greater discount just because you had them in print?  Or would that idea not even cross your mind?

Like I said before, I think we're caught up on the digital aspect of a digital book, and seem to forget that its the book, the information, that we're paying for, and not the shiny new package.

 

Greg,

I am amazed at how much you misunderstand the issues and the nature of Pradis owners’ frustration with Zondervan. The analogies you gave further demonstrate that you do not understand why those who actually bought Pradis products believe that Zondervan let them down.

Bob explanations regarding the Baker prepubs shows that from a business perspective your assertion that “book is a book is a book, no matter the form” could not be more wrong. He pointed to a major difference between digital and print books:  the former require a post-sale element in the form of technical support and updates.

The equation is as follows

Print Books = relationship with the publisher ends with the sale (almost no need for post sale support)

Digital Books = relationship with the publisher begins with the sale + technical support  intended to insure that the product functions and keeps functioning for a reasonable period of time.

As such, one not only purchases digital books, but one also purchases the expectation of technical support (whether or not it is specified in the EULA)

If Zondervan had merely added Logos as a platform and kept supporting Pradis, no one would have complained since the Digital books’ equation should still be valid (no one complained when the Accordance platform was added by Zondervan a few years ago, why? Pradis was still supported and we had no legitimate expectation that Zondervan needed to do anything for current customers of a supported product)

Since Zondervan has decided to kill Pradis as a platform, the Digital books’ equation is broken: after June, if I have technical issues when trying to install or reinstall the software, if my installation keeps crashing, if it will not start and so on, I have no recourse and cannot call Zondervan for support. This is to say nothing of what might happen as Operating Systems change every few years.

This is where all your analogies fail: a new version of the resource, a new edition, a move from hardcover to paperback does not threaten my ability to use and enjoy the print resources that I already have.

The same cannot be said of the termination of technical support, it effectively puts an expiration date on the resources I have. It would be somewhat understandable if Zondervan was going out of business and was unable to provide technical support, but this is not the case, they are still thriving, are able to provide technical support, but have merely decided not to do so.

If want to continue using my resources, sooner rather than later, I will have no choice but to migrate to another platform . All the analogies (or straw men) that you presented fail to include the necessary element of lack of choice. All the examples you gave were just a matter of preference, our complaint is that we do not have a choice and that Zondervan is forcing our hand: upgrade or lose the ability to use your resource at some point.

For Pradis owners, this is not a philosophical issue we have to solve in order to entertain ourselves, it is not an academic question full of hypothetical cases. We have invested real dollars, and this investment is about to be lost in the near future (hence the need to repurchase the resources in another format)

You have nothing at stake in the whole process maybe that explains why you are so quick to give lessons to those who paid for it using their hard earned dollars. I am glad that you stopped using the “we” as in “we were given a good deal” or “we should be grateful” that I found rather disingenuous since you are not a Pradis owner.

I do not think that the above will change your mind (I am not really saying anything that is new) but you might want to consider whether or not you are helping or just pouring more oil on the fire.

Alain

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 10:50 PM

Alain Maashe:
As such, one not only purchases digital books, but one also purchases the expectation of technical support (whether or not it is specified in the EULA)

It is interesting to me that the United States Federal government requires automakers to make parts available for 10 years after an auto is produced (I would call that "support", wouldn't you?) However, the software industry is free to kill off anything at any time. Many companies buy out their often better,competitors for the sole purpose of terminating them. Other companies don't have the slightest idea how to support product  for the long haul. (Gateway's purchase of Amiga proved that.) I think it morally wrong but they can legally do it.

Zondervan has proven to be a publisher of fine books. I am glad Zondervan is pitching the ball to Logos. I just wish I could afford the switch since my Pradis purchases will be orphaned - or better labeled "adopted."

Alain Maashe:
but one also purchases the expectation of technical support 
Correctamundo!

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 2:22 AM

Alain Maashe:
As such, one not only purchases digital books, but one also purchases the expectation of technical support (whether or not it is specified in the EULA)

Alain,

Thank you for explaining better where it is you and the others are coming from.

One thing I do not understand though, is why Pradis was invested in when it was clearly an inferior platform that was not essential to Zondervan's bottom line and which there was no promise of continued support in the likely event Pradis got axed.

That seems like a very risky investment to me. I understand the need for the books, but if they are needed that badly, why not just go for print until something better came along?  That's guaranteed to last much longer at least.

In my opinion, one's expectations of a company aren't a very good thing to base an investment off of.  For a company that didn't promise anything, should this occurrence really be a surprise?

I thought what John Fidel wrote in his blog above was the best take on this whole issue. While I think the 40% off is a great discount, there's always room for improvement, as John notes. And I also think investing in Pradis was a risky buy. That's why I personally never bought Pradis resources, even though I had some pretty good opportunities. While you don't think I have a stake in this discussion because I don't use Pradis, the reason I never used it in the first place was because it was a risky investment. I think this is a good example where foresight paid off in the long run. 

Echoing John, software companies will act like software companies, and publishers like publishers. Logos maintains support and compatibility for their product because they are a software company; Zondervan makes you buy the book over again because they are a book company.

To them, a book is a book is a book.

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Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 7:28 AM

Greg Masone:

Thank you for explaining better where it is you and the others are coming from.

One thing I do not understand though, is why Pradis was invested in when it was clearly an inferior platform that was not essential to Zondervan's bottom line and which there was no promise of continued support in the likely event Pradis got axed.

 

A very good question. I originally purchased the EBC from Zondervan when it was not even called "Pradis." It was in STEP format and I used WordSearch to read it (the Zondervan software was crappy back then too). When STEP feel apart and WordSearch moved to a new format, I decide to purchase the Pradis 5 version of the EBC.

Pradis was a real disappointment to me. It is little more than a glorified PDF reader. All the things that we have come to use and appreciate in Logos were missing. Even the earliest versions of Logos 2 was light years ahead of Pradis as an ebook reader and any book prepared by Logos' personal book builder was a superior ebook!

That Zondervan would charge $25 to "upgrade" to Pradis 6 was a joke. With as little time, effort and skill that must have gone into preparing the Pradis versions of these sets, an upgrade to a Logos version of these sets, is easily worth many times more. This is why I am amazed that some many people expect to pay only $25 for these upgrades. $25 will upgrade you from an ebook that is equivalent to a Yugo in the car world to another Yugo. To expect to pay the same to upgrade to the software equivalent of a BMW for the same $25 is ridiculous. It is like comparing Apples to Oranges.

While I feel sorry in some ways for those who spent close to a $1000 on Pradis software and books, its make you wonder why anyone would do this when it was so widely known what a poor program Pradis was, what poor quality their ebooks were, and their awful upgrade policy. The moral of the story is we get what we pay for. Why after purchasing their first Pradis product these people thought purchasing more would change things for the better is beyond me. This may sound harsh, but they are reaping the consequences of unwise choices.

Those on the other hand, who saw what a piece of junk Pradis was and limited their purchases to just one or two items now have an opportunity to purchase a lot of really great books at an additional 40% off discount. I spent well under $100 for the EBC I purchased. I wanted some of the other Zondervan books, but refused to purchase them in print or in Pradis, until they came out in Logos format. Now with the 40% discount, I can now have for example the Logos version of the EBC, NIDOTT and NIDNTT, with a total discount of $157.60. That means I will be at least $57.60 ahead, for my sub-$100 investment.

As consumers we have a responsibility to act responsibly. This is why I have gone at time to such great lengths to warn people not to waste their money by ordering PrePubs that are priced at 100% MSRP. Just bide your time and in time, Logos will off most of these books in a base package or in some special sale. I have been wanting the NIDNTT since seminary 21 years ago. Even though I wanted the NIDNTT, when I saw what a piece of junk Pradis was, I bid my time, and now I have been rewarded after 21 years with a Logos version and at a total of a 60% discount (20% PrePub plus 40% Upgrade)!

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Amy Leung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 7:42 AM

P. Keith Larson:
Now with the 40% discount, I can now have for example the Logos version of the EBC, NIDOTT and NIDNTT, with a total discount of $157.60. That means I will be at least $57.60 ahead, for my sub-$100 investment.
Keith, are you sure you can do that?  I thought the 40% discount applies only for the EBC, or for the whole Zondervan 87 volumes bundle that included the EBC, and not for any other combination of volumes?  Or maybe I'm mistaken?

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 7:47 AM

Amy Leung:

P. Keith Larson:
Now with the 40% discount, I can now have for example the Logos version of the EBC, NIDOTT and NIDNTT, with a total discount of $157.60. That means I will be at least $57.60 ahead, for my sub-$100 investment.
Keith, are you sure you can do that?  I thought the 40% discount applies only for the EBC, or for the whole Zondervan 87 volumes bundle that included the EBC, and not for any other combination of volumes?  Or maybe I'm mistaken?

Amy,

You are mistaken, but understandably so.  A few different positions have come from people representing Logos.  But the reality IS this: if you are a registered Pradis person (before 2010), REGARDLESS of what you own in Pradis, you can get ANY of the Z bundle at 40% off, one time purchase, before June 30th.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 405
Amy Leung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 8:10 AM

Oh dear.  I got the whole thing and am paying $104 more than I otherwise would have.  Sad

Oh, well...

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 8:11 AM

 

P. Keith Larson:
While I feel sorry in some ways for those who spent close to a $1000 on Pradis software and books, its make you wonder why anyone would do this when it was so widely known what a poor program Pradis was, what poor quality their ebooks were

 

I didn't spend 1000, but maybe 700 or 800 . . . . don't remember exact prices.

 

Here is why: I liked the resources.  I saw the improvement in "look" of Pradis 5, and had hoped for a real improvement in 6.  Like the Berlin wall coming down, I thought I would never see the day when Z was on Logos, or any other program.  So, I figured: better having this on my computer than lugging around hard copies of resources I use a lot.  Plus, comparatively, the price for the complete NIVAC NT set was far better than individual hardcopies.  Maybe they knew where they were headed and decided to sell cheaply, I dunno.  But I invested, but each time was a bit of "kicking and screaming" to do it.  I was appalled at the functionality issued of Pradis (from installation to completely wrong/missing links to no way to report typos, etc), the difficulty in getting support, clunky website, etc etc.  But I kept hoping, lol.  And yet I would always look to Logos first for purchases.  And spent far more money with them.

I never dreamed Pradis would be dumped.  But, the Berlin wall came down.  And like the wall coming down (I lived there at one time), it brought its share of joy and hardship.  So it is with the falling down of Pradis.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 8:12 AM

Amy Leung:

Oh dear.  I got the whole thing and am paying $104 more than I otherwise would have.  Sad

Oh, well...

I don't get what you mean?   Anyway, If you can qualify for less, then ask the sales rep to review your situation, right?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 60
Richard Crampton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 8:15 AM

P. Keith Larson:
While I feel sorry in some ways for those who spent close to a $1000 on Pradis software and books, its make you wonder why anyone would do this when it was so widely known what a poor program Pradis was, what poor quality their ebooks were, and their awful upgrade policy. The moral of the story is we get what we pay for. Why after purchasing their first Pradis product these people thought purchasing more would change things for the better is beyond me. This may sound harsh, but they are reaping the consequences of unwise choices.

 

You know what Mr. Larson, I'm fed up with your silly arrogance!  The reason I invested so much is because I was going to the mission field and could not take the books with me.   It was my only option at the time.  Of course I knew  Pradis was inferior to Logos, but I didn't need to do anything but read books.  Unfortunately, I was unaware of what the future ramifications might be.  My bad, since I'm not a prophet like you.      

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 8:21 AM

P. Keith Larson:
As consumers we have a responsibility to act responsibly. This is why I have gone at time to such great lengths to warn people not to waste their money by ordering PrePubs that are priced at 100% MSRP

 

I've been avoiding posting on this due to some of the more heated exchanges that have come up on these forums and I appreciate that this discussion has taken a more level headed turn.  I can sympathize with those who spent $1000 on Pradis and feel that they are being asked to buy their books over again. Over the last 20 years I've spent more that that on software an books that I can access.  I did run win 98 in VMware for a few years until I could afford to replace the books I really wanted in Logos format but there are still books I paid for that I can't access and have been abandoned by the software companies (They aren't available at any price today). 

 

I bought two packages in Pradis about a year ago because I wanted the EBC and one of the Encyclopedia sets(less then $160 total). Although I had registered these with Zondervan Logos didn't have me in their database.  I contacted Zondervan about this. They were very courteous and are in the process of resolving this issue (apparently several Pradis users had the same problem).  I think that Zondervan is providing a very generous offer to those of us that have only a few Pradis resources (I'm looking forward to getting the entire collection at the %60 discount).  Basically the $160 I spent last year translates into an over $700 discount this year.

 

With the discussion about Baker prepubs at 100% MSRP and the complaints about Zondervan pricing I decided to look into the cost of these resources in print.  The online bookstores list the MSRP for this collection at $2940 (slightly higher than the MSRP Logos lists).  Logos sale price represents a %26 percent discount off this price (a comparison of other current resources such as the Tyndale commentaries or the NICOT/NT suggests that the average sale price for current popular resources runs about %15 to %20).  Taking advantage of combination deals and using the best online prices I could find it would cost me very close to the prepub price of $1799 to buy all these books in paper.  I would need to order books from three different stores and this doesn't include shipping. If I include the cheapest domestic rates for shipping it would be cheaper to get these books in Logos than on paper.  When the NICOT/NT was on prepub it was offered at the same price that a large online christian book discounter was offering the paper version so these prices seem to be in line with past prepubs on popular items.

 

I sympathize with those who have invested significantly in Pradis however I'm happy that Zondervan is making their books available in Logos format and I think that many of us are getting an exceptional deal on the books we want.

 

 

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