TDOT issue

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JH | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Dec 4 2015 7:42 PM

Maybe I don't have TDOT prioritized correctly, but I am running into a problem. For example, if I right click on "Blessed" in the ESV in Psalm 1:1, TDOT does not show up in the list of lexicons for the lemma. It also does not show up in Bible Word Study. However, if I right click on "man" in the same verse, TDOT does show up and is included in the BWS. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I can't see it. Anyone else see this kind of problem?

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2015 9:07 PM

JH:
if I right click on "Blessed" in the ESV in Psalm 1:1, TDOT does not show up in the list of lexicons for the lemma

Interesting. I am experiencing the same problem with that example.

TDOT does have an article on  אַשְׁרֵי (ʾashrê) starting Vol 1, page 445, so I would expect it to link. Perhaps it's a problem with morphological tagging, through it does link to HAL and others.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2015 9:30 PM

From my (brief) testing, it  seem like it's simply that specific word (in all instances of of that word).

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2015 10:12 PM

Thanks. We'll look into it. 

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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I've reported this bug to the Content Production team.

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2015 12:41 AM

Thank you for reporting this so quickly, Bradley and Rick.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2015 8:13 AM

This has been fixed internally and should be corrected in a later release of the resource.

One further general peculiarity of TDOT: It does not exhaustively cover the vocabulary of the Hebrew Bible; it is a theological lexicon that covers a select range of the available vocabulary. In this case, we could add the proper link. But there will be legitimate cases where a lemma has no article in TDOT. In my experience, most content-bearing words have articles.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 705
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2015 3:04 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

This has been fixed internally and should be corrected in a later release of the resource.

One further general peculiarity of TDOT: It does not exhaustively cover the vocabulary of the Hebrew Bible; it is a theological lexicon that covers a select range of the available vocabulary. In this case, we could add the proper link. But there will be legitimate cases where a lemma has no article in TDOT. In my experience, most content-bearing words have articles.

Has this been fixed for all instances where this occurs, or just for the example from Psalm 1:1? For example, the lemma behind "wither" in Psalm 1:3 does not show up either (and I verified there is an entry in TDOT).

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2015 3:57 PM

There does seem to be a broader problem. In addition to what's already been mentioned, הלך in Psalm 1:1 doesn't open TDOT, either. Not does פֶּ֫לֶג in verse 3. Has something gone wrong with lemma mapping?

Posts 118
Tim Finlay | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2015 9:54 AM

Rick, I completely understand that TDOT, like TLOT, is not exhaustive. However, there are problems linking the reverse interlinears with both of these resources to many lemmas where there are articles in these resources. Right-click on any occurence the verb צדק  in either the NRSV or BHS say, and you will not find an entry to the appropriate article in TDOT. This is because TDOT has tagged the verb as  צָדַק, not as צדק. There is no problem with the noun צְדָקָה. The same problem arises with the verb נגף. Perhaps this is true of many verbs. The problem with TLOT is that when there are completely different meanings for the same set of three root letters, Logos often links all verbs with those letters to the same TLOT article, whether it is appropriate or not. Look at what happens with ענה, for example. I noted this with regards to TLOT over a year ago and nothing has been done. I highly recommend that you fix TDOT and TLOT at the same time, and make sure that the tagging for Dictionary of Classical Hebrew works before releasing it. 

Posts 118
Tim Finlay | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2015 10:00 AM

Rick, this is a list of TLOT words that I compiled over two years ago as having problems with the linking. I have not rechecked all of them, but suspect that the issue is still unresolved.

 I have made a comparison of BDB and TLOT to look where BDB has more than one lemma for an entry in TLOT. Then, I started right-clicking in Bibles on words that could prove problematic. One example is רחם where I clicked on "carrion" in Lev 11:18 and got a TLOT link to "to have mercy." The other words that I have identifed as problems are:  

 

גאל

דמה

הלל

חזה

חלה

חָלַק

כפר

מָאַס

נָבָל

נצר

עזב

ענה

עָנָן

עשׂה

קוה

רחם

שׂכל

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Mike Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2015 12:12 PM

JH:
Has this been fixed for all instances where this occurs, or just for the example from Psalm 1:1? For example, the lemma behind "wither" in Psalm 1:3 does not show up either (and I verified there is an entry in TDOT).

We're getting there. There are probably some other lower frequency words that we're still missing. I'm tasked with searching them out and connecting them, but it isn't a fast process and we're also working hard on getting the Dictionary of Classical Hebrew ready.

(I should have a little Faithlife logo under my name...hmmm...)

Posts 118
Tim Finlay | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2015 8:31 AM

Michael, TDOT actually has better links than I realized, so keep up the good work. I did more extensive testing on TDOT this morning and all the verbs I tried had the proper links. Yesterday, I was doing work on justification in the Old Testament and the link for צָדַק was not working and so I checked on the Logos Forums to see if there had been any problems with the links on TDOT, and found this forum. I then tried נָגַף at random and found problems with that as well and thought it might be systemic with verbs, which is why I posted. This morning I found that this is clearly not the case and the problem is simply that a few links have been overlooked. So, overall the linking is good, you just need to clear up a few isolated problems, I think.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2015 8:43 AM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
This has been fixed internally and should be corrected in a later release of the resource.

An updated version of TDOT will be delivered with the December resource update later this month.

To follow up on some further questions; we've aligned the instances we know of. So, for 'blessed' in Ps 1.1, the fix will address all instances of that lemma to article alignment. Other work has been done since the original shipment as well. If more issues are located, please report via typo report and/or on this thread.

Thanks!

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2015 4:51 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
An updated version of TDOT will be delivered ...

Thanks, Rick. Appreciated.

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