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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 5 2015 7:23 AM

Can you expand on the allusions by using the USB 4 allusions?  For example in the Book of Revelation the USB has nearly 400 allusions to the Old Testament.  In this interactive tool you only show 19.   I know you are using a different source for allusions but I believe the USB list is more inclusive.  Here is a link to a chart listing the allusions to Revelation:    logosres:chrtsbkrvltn;ref=Page.p_25;off=138    Charts on the Book of Revelation Literary, Historical, and Theological Perspectives by Mark Wilson



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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 12:36 PM

Would like to hear from someone in Faithlife to add united bible societies allusions to this resource.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 1:57 PM

John Brumett:
Would like to hear from someone in Faithlife to add united bible societies allusions to this resource.

John, I'm not that Faithlife person, but I did check out the reference you gave and it seems to me that one person's allusion is another person's cross-reference from that chart. Of course it is also a chart of 'verbal parallels' in the OT which I suppose are more like traditional cross references. It makes me skeptical of what these 400 allusions might be and their actual value.

FL has four categories of OT references in this tool. Even if we agreed that the 'allusions' in the UBS are valuable, it would take some work to separate them into the four categories.

BTW: I was not able to call up any of the UBS4 OT allusions that I didn't already know existed. Certainly not 400 in Revelation. I'd be interested in how you found that number and how you've located them. I may be overlooking the obvious. Thanks.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 2:26 PM

Mark Smith:
BTW: I was not able to call up any of the UBS4 OT allusions that I didn't already know existed. Certainly not 400 in Revelation. I'd be interested in how you found that number and how you've located them

Searching UBS on Revelation for OT references gives 306 results (top-left in the shot below) - while not the 400 suggested signficantly more than the 40 identified in the Interactive (right)

And I think there are certainly more than 40 - the example bottom right suggests that the double-edged sword in Rev 1:16 draws on imagery from Isaiah.

And the source from which the Interactive is taken includes many more OT references than shown in the Interactive - including the one I suggest relating to Revelation 1:16

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 2:33 PM

It's good to know folks want more intertextual stuff! We'll put expansion of the dataset on the list of things to consider.

Thanks!

Rick Brannan
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 2:55 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

It's good to know folks want more intertextual stuff! We'll put expansion of the dataset on the list of things to consider.

Thanks!

Thanks Rick

Any thoughts on why the Interactive doesn't have all the references from the source doc? Is it just "not done yet" or is there any other reason?

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Jeff Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 5:58 PM

As the author of one of the datasets that was used for this, I can speak for the motivations for that - and only that - part.

My interests (this was done prior to my employment here) were focused more on conscious use of a passage by the author.  So I was very picky about what I included.  If it didn't seem the author was explicitly quoting from or evoking a passage, I didn't include it.  Mpre "echoy" stuff to use Rick's terminology wasn't within my interest.

Of course Rick made his own choices but it seems many of the 300+ other parallels may be more a shared idiom than conscious evocation of the OT passage, which is certainly interesting in its own right.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 7:28 PM

Graham Criddle:
Searching UBS on Revelation for OT references gives 306 results (top-left in the shot below) - while not the 400 suggested signficantly more than the 40 identified in the Interactive (right)

Well that's the UBS Handbook you searched, not the UBS4. I still don't know how to find out where the number 400 for allusions in Revelation in the UBS4 comes from.

I think there should be more than what we are seeing in the interactive, as you point out from a standard text on this subject.

Jeff Jackson:
My interests (this was done prior to my employment here) were focused more on conscious use of a passage by the author.  So I was very picky about what I included.  If it didn't seem the author was explicitly quoting from or evoking a passage, I didn't include it.

And I agree with a conservative philosophy in approaching this. So 400 'hits' in Revelation seems a bit much. Yet with the four categories included, the current list may be too small. Lots of judgment calls.

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Jeff Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2015 8:05 PM

Looking at the Rev 1:15 || Isa 49:2 example above: beyond the sword image, there's really not much in common between them.  In one the sword comes out of the mouth, in the other the mouth is like a sword.  In one the prophet is seeing Christ with the sword, in the other it's the prophet himself with a mouth like a sword.  In one the sword is double edged, in the other is sharp.  Etc.  It strikes me as more of a shared idiom of language than an evocation of a passage or even an echo of a common theme.  It's certainly interesting, but doesn't seem to fit Rick's four-fold classification.

Pre-computer cross reference guides included these sorts of one-word parallels more, but today, simply searching for sword or doing a word study would give oh so much more information than a cross reference list on a single word.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 1:22 AM

Mark Smith:
Well that's the UBS Handbook you searched, not the UBS4

Sorry Mark - I misread the original post

Mark Smith:
I still don't know how to find out where the number 400 for allusions in Revelation in the UBS4 comes from.

It does have an OTQuote field. From the Title Page:

These instances of Old Testament quotations have been encoded as fields within this Logos Bible Software edition of the UBS4 text. The field name is OTQuote. Therefore, one may now use a search string like “OTQuote:ονομα” to locate all instances of the word ονομα within Old Testament quotations.

Kurt Aland, Matthew Black, et al., The Greek New Testament, Fourth Revised Edition (with Morphology) (Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1993; 2006).

Maybe this number is derived from these fields - but I don't know.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 1:34 AM

Jeff Jackson:
Looking at the Rev 1:15 || Isa 49:2 example above: beyond the sword image, there's really not much in common between them

Some commentators do seem to recognise the linkage:

The “sharp two-edged sword” proceeding from Jesus’ mouth is based on the prophecies of Isa. 11:4 and 49:2, which adds further to his depiction as an eschatological judge and as the one beginning to fulfill this messianic expectation (see below on use of the Isa. 11:4 imagery in Jewish writings). That this is the primary meaning is clear from the use of the same metaphor in 2:16 and 19:15; in particular, 19:15 shows that Isa. 11:4 is uppermost in mind here, since there ἵνα ἐν αὐτῇ πατάξῃ τὰ ἔθνη (“in order that he should strike the nations”) from Isa. 11:4 is added directly following καὶ ἐκ τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ ἐκπορεύεται ῥομφαία ὀξεῖα (“and from his mouth proceeds a sharp sword”). The use of Isa. 11:2–3 in Rev. 1:4 and 5:5–6 confirms this

G. K. Beale, The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text (New International Greek Testament Commentary; Grand Rapids, MI; Carlisle, Cumbria: W.B. Eerdmans; Paternoster Press, 1999), 211–212.

Other deities were portrayed as bearing swords,13 but this image is an allusion to Isaiah 11:4 (“He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked”)14 and Jewish images of God’s Word as a warrior with a sword (Wisd. 18:15; cf. Rev 19:15).

Craig S. Keener, Revelation (The NIV Application Commentary; Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1999), 96.

It is possible that v 16a is based on an allusion to Isa 49:2, where in the context of the second Servant p 99 Song, the speaker says “He [God] made my mouth like a sharp sword,” perhaps in combination with Isa 11:4, “he shall smite the earth with the rod [MT: שׁבט; LXX: τῷ λόγῳ] of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked” (see Comments on 19:15, 21. In Heb 4:12, the word of God is said to be “sharper than any two-edged sword.” In all these passages, the “sword” is clearly a metaphor for judgment (A. T. Hanson, Wrath, 166–67)

David E. Aune, Revelation 1–5 (vol. 52A; Word Biblical Commentary; Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 1998), 98–99.

I'm not suggesting that all commentators make this point but there is certainly some support for it.

Jeff Jackson:
 It's certainly interesting, but doesn't seem to fit Rick's four-fold classification.

Personally I see this as either an allusion or an echo - but as Mark says there are a lot of judgment calls here.

Interestingly, Beale in his shorter commentary makes the strong point about Revelation having a lot of allusions to the Old Testament - but a lot of the books he references (even on the page shown) are not included in the Interactive: Ezekiel, Genesis, Joel, Exodus, Numbers. 

Jeff Jackson:
Pre-computer cross reference guides included these sorts of one-word parallels more, but today, simply searching for sword or doing a word study would give oh so much more information than a cross reference list on a single word.

True but - as above - I think we are missing things I would expect to find in the Interactive

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 2:01 AM

Jeff Jackson:
Of course Rick made his own choices but it seems many of the 300+ other parallels may be more a shared idiom than conscious evocation of the OT passage, which is certainly interesting in its own right.

I'm certainly interested in further improving intertextual datasets. For me the echoes are where you can add most value, as the quotations and the most obviously allusions can usually be easily found in footnotes.

But an expanded interactive and accompanying visual filter that marked quotations, allusions, and 'echoes'. I'd envision the visual filter applying colour coding to Bibles (different colours for different types of usage), together with an indicator I could hover over to get the other texts.

I am very attracted to Greg Beale's methodology for determining how the NT uses the OT (see here, particularly), and would like the data behind the tool to have come from biblical theological analysis, not just literary analysis.

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 2:38 AM

Mark Barnes:
I am very attracted to Greg Beale's methodology for determining how the NT uses the OT (see here, particularly), and would like the data behind the tool to have come from biblical theological analysis, not just literary analysis.

Yes

Having said that, I like this tool - at the same time fully accepting that whether something should go into it is very much a matter of opinion wen you get down to echoes and allusions. 


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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 5:27 AM

Mark Smith:
Well that's the UBS Handbook you searched, not the UBS4. I still don't know how to find out where the number 400 for allusions in Revelation in the UBS4 comes from.
  This is what I found Mark:

Here is a quote from the COMMENTARY on the New Testament Use of the Old estament Edited by G. K. Beale and D. A. Carson[1]

It is generally recognized that Revelation contains more OT references than does any other NT book, although past attempts to tally the total amount have varied (UBS3 = 394; NA26 = 635; British and Foreign Bible Society Greek text = 493; Hühn 1900 = 455;[2]

The fourth edition of the United Bible Societies’ Greek Testament (1993) lists 343 Old Testament quotations in the New Testament, as well as no fewer than 2,309 allusions and verbal parallels. The books most used are Psalms (79 quotations, 333 allusions), and Isaiah (66 quotations, 348 allusions). In the Book of Revelation, there are no formal quotations at all, but no fewer than 620 allusions.[3]

First, some statistics: the fourth edition of the United Bible Societies’ Greek Testament (1993) lists 343 Old Testament quotations in the New Testament, as well as no fewer than 2,309 allusions and verbal parallels. The books most used are Psalms (79 quotations, 333 allusions), and Isaiah (66 quotations, 348 allusions). In the Book of Revelation, there are no formal quotations at all, but no fewer than 620 allusions.[4]

The references in this chart are drawn from the “Index of Allusions and Verbal Parallels” found in UBS4, pages 891–901. The 403 verse citations with these allusions and verbal parallels are distributed as follows: Genesis—10; Exodus—24; Leviticus—4; Numbers—3; Deuteronomy—10 (Law—51); Judges—1; 1 Samuel—1; 2 Samuel—2; 1 Kings—6; 2 Kings—6; 1 Chronicles—1; 2 Chronicles—4; Nehemiah—1; Esther—1; Job—3; Psalms—69; Proverbs—3 (Writings—98); Isaiah—74; Jeremiah—37; Lamentations—1; Ezekiel—58; Daniel—41; Hosea—2; Joel—9; Amos—3; Obadiah—1; Micah—1; Nahum—1; Zephaniah—2; Zechariah—22; Malachi—2 (Prophets—254). The Law has 13 percent of the citations, the Writings 24 percent, and the Prophets 63 percent. UBS4 does not list any quotations from the Old Testament in Revelation in its “Index of Quotations.”[5]

 



[1] G. K. Beale and D. A. Carson, Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids, MI;  Nottingham, UK: Baker Academic;  Apollos, 2007), iii.

[2] G. K. Beale and D. A. Carson, Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids, MI;  Nottingham, UK: Baker Academic;  Apollos, 2007), 1082.

[3] Walter A. Elwell and Walter A. Elwell, Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, Baker Reference Library (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996).

[4] Kenneth Boa and William Kruidenier, Romans, vol. 6, Holman New Testament Commentary (Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 2000), 322.

[5] Mark Wilson, Charts on the Book of Revelation: Literary, Historical, and Theological Perspectives, Kregel Charts of the Bible and Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Academic & Professional, 2007), 120.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 5:36 AM

John, this is very helpful in furthering this discussion. Thanks!

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 5:54 AM

9. Allusions and Verbal Parallels in the Old Testament and Extrabiblical Literature


Revelation
Old Testament and Extrabiblical Literature
1:1
Dan. 2:28, 29, 45
1:4
Exod. 3:14; Isa. 41:4
1:5
Pss. 89:27; 130:8; Isa. 40:2
1:6
Exod. 19:6; Isa. 61:6
1:7
Dan. 7:13; Zech. 12:10, 12, 14
1:8
Exod. 3:14; Isa. 41:4; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
1:13
Ezek. 9:2, 11 LXX; Dan. 7:13; 10:5
1:14
Dan. 7:9
1:14–15
Dan. 10:6
1:15
Ezek. 1:24; 43:2
1:16
Isa. 49:2
1:17
Isa. 44:6; 48:12
1:19
Isa. 48:6 LXX; Dan. 2:28, 29, 45
2:6
Ps. 139:21
2:7
Gen. 2:8 LXX, 2:9; 3:22, 24; Ezek. 28:13 LXX; 31:8, 9 LXX
2:8
Isa. 44:6; 48:12
2:10
Dan. 1:12, 14
2:12
Isa. 49:2
2:14
Num. 25:1–2; 31:16
2:16
Isa. 49:2
2:17
Ps. 78:24; Isa. 62:2; 65:15
2:18
Dan. 10:6
2:20
Num. 25:1–2; 1 Kings 16:31; 2 Kings 9:22
2:23
Pss. 7:9; 62:12; Prov. 24:12; Jer. 11:20; 17:10
2:26–27
Ps. 2:8, 9; Pss. Sol. 17:23–24
3:5
Exod. 32:32, 33; Ps. 69:28; Dan. 12:1
3:7
Job 12:14; Isa. 22:22
3:9
Isa. 43:4; 45:14; 49:23; 60:14
3:12
Isa. 62:2; 65:15; Ezek. 48:35
3:14
Prov. 8:22
3:17
Hos. 12:8
3:19
Prov. 3:12
4:1
Exod. 19:20, 24; Dan. 2:28, 29, 45
4:2
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
4:3
Ezek. 1:26–28
4:4
Isa. 24:23
4:5
Exod. 19:16; Esther 1:1d LXX; Ezek. 1:13; Zech. 4:2
4:6
Ezek. 1:22
4:6–7
Ezek. 1:5–10; 10:14
4:8
Exod. 3:14; Isa. 6:2, 3; 41:4; Ezek. 1:18; 10:12; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
4:9
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Dan. 4:34; 6:26; 12:7; Sir. 1:8
4:10
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
5:1
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; 29:11; Ezek. 1:26–27; 2:9–10; Sir. 1:8
5:5
Gen. 49:9–10; Isa. 11:1, 10
5:6
Isa. 53:7; Zech. 4:10
5:7
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
5:8
Ps. 141:2
5:9
Pss. 33:3; 40:3; 96:1; 98:1; 144:9; 149:1; Isa. 42:10
5:10
Exod. 19:6; Isa. 61:6
5:11
Dan. 7:10; 1 En. 14:22
5:12
1 Chron. 29:11; Isa. 53:7
5:13
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
6:2
Zech. 1:8; 6:3, 6
6:4
Zech. 1:8; 6:2
6:5
Zech. 6:2, 6
6:8
Jer. 14:12; 15:3; Ezek. 5:12, 17; 14:21; 33:27
6:10
Deut. 32:43; 2 Kings 9:7; Ps. 79:10
6:12
Joel 2:31
6:12–13
Isa. 13:10; Ezek. 32:7, 8; Joel 2:10; 3:15
6:13–14
Isa. 34:4
6:15
Isa. 2:10, 19, 21; Jer. 4:29
6:16
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Hos. 10:8; Sir. 1:8
6:17
Joel 2:11; Nah. 1:6; Mal. 3:2
7:1
Jer. 49:36; Ezek. 37:9; Dan. 7:2; Zech. 6:5
7:3
Ezek. 9:4
7:10
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
7:14
Dan. 12:1
7:15
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
7:16
Isa. 49:10
7:17
Ps. 23:1, 2; Isa. 25:8; 49:10; Jer. 2:13; Ezek. 34:23
8:3
Exod. 30:1–3; Ps. 141:2
8:4
Ps. 141:2
8:5
Exod. 19:16–19; Lev. 16:12; Esther 1:1d LXX
8:7
Exod. 9:23–25; Ezek. 38:22; Wis. 16:22
8:8
Exod. 7:20, 21
8:11
Jer. 9:15
8:12
Isa. 13:10; Ezek. 32:7, 8; Joel 2:10; 3:15
9:2
Gen. 19:28; Exod. 19:18
9:3
Exod. 10:12, 15; Wis. 16:9
9:6
Job 3:21; Jer. 8:3; Hos. 10:8
9:7
Joel 2:4, 5
9:8
Joel 1:6
9:9
Joel 2:5
9:13
Exod. 30:1–3
9:20
Deut. 32:17; Pss. 115:4–7; 135:15–17; Dan. 5:23
10:4
Dan. 8:26; 12:4, 9
10:5–6
Deut. 32:40; Dan. 12:7
10:6
Gen. 14:19, 22; Exod. 20:11; Neh. 9:6; Ps. 146:6
10:7
Dan. 9:6, 10; Amos 3:7; Zech. 1:6
10:9–10
Ezek. 2:8; 3:1–3
10:11
Jer. 1:10; 25:30; Dan. 3:4; 7:14
11:1
Ezek. 40:3; Zech. 2:1–2
11:2
Ps. 79:1; Isa. 63:18; Zech. 12:3 LXX
11:4
Zech. 4:3, 11–14
11:5
2 Sam. 22:9; 2 Kings 1:10; Ps. 97:3; Jer. 5:14
11:6
Exod. 7:17, 19–20; 1 Sam. 4:8; 1 Kings 17:1
11:7
Dan. 7:3, 7, 21
11:8
Isa. 1:10
11:11
Ezek. 37:5, 10
11:12
2 Kings 2:11
11:13
Ezek. 38:19–20
11:15
Exod. 15:18; Pss. 10:16; 22:28; Dan. 2:44; 7:14; Obad. 21; Zech. 14:9
11:17
Exod. 3:14; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
11:18
Pss. 2:1; 46:6; 115:13; Dan. 9:6, 10; Amos 3:7; Zech. 1:6
11:19
Exod. 9:24; 19:16; 1 Kings 8:1, 6; 2 Chron. 5:7; Esther 1:1d LXX; Ezek. 1:13
12:2
Isa. 66:7; Mic. 4:10
12:3
Dan. 7:7
12:4
Dan. 8:10
12:5
Ps. 2:9; Isa. 7:14; 66:7
12:7
Dan. 10:13, 21; 12:1
12:9
Isa. 14:12
12:10
Job 1:9–11; Zech. 3:1
12:14
Dan. 7:25; 12:7
12:17
Dan. 7:7, 21
13:1
Dan. 7:3
13:2
Dan. 7:4–6
13:5
Dan. 7:8, 20, 25; 11:36
13:7
Dan. 7:7, 21
13:8
Exod. 32:32, 33; Ps. 69:28; Isa. 53:7; Dan. 12:1
13:10
Jer. 15:2; 43:11
13:13
1 Kings 18:24–39
13:14
Deut. 13:2–4
13:15
Dan. 3:5–6
14:1
Ezek. 9:4
14:2
Ezek. 1:24; 43:2
14:3
Pss. 33:3; 40:3; 96:1; 98:1; 144:9; 149:1; Isa. 42:10
14:5
Ps. 32:2; Isa. 53:9; Zeph. 3:13
14:7
Exod. 20:11; Ps. 146:6
14:8
Isa. 21:9; Jer. 51:7, 8
14:10
Gen. 19:24; Pss. 11:6; 75:8; Isa. 51:17, 22; Jer. 25:15; Ezek. 38:22; 3 Macc. 2:5
14:11
Isa. 34:10
14:14
Dan. 7:13
14:15
Joel 3:13
14:18
Joel 3:13
14:20
Isa. 63:3; Lam. 1:15
15:1
Lev. 26:21
15:3
Exod. 15:1, 11; Deut. 32:4; Pss. 92:5; 111:2; 139:14; 145:17; Jer. 10:10 Theodotion; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX; 1 En. 9:4; 25:5; 27:3; Tob. 13:7, 11
15:4
Ps. 86:9; Jer. 10:6–7; Mal. 1:11
15:5
Exod. 38:21; 40:34
15:6
Lev. 26:21
15:7
Ps. 75:8; Isa. 51:17, 22; Jer. 25:15
15:8
Exod. 40:34; 1 Kings 8:10–11; 2 Chron. 5:13–14; Isa. 6:4; Ezek. 44:4
16:1
Ps. 69:24; Isa. 66:6; Jer. 10:25; Ezek. 22:31; Zeph. 3:8
16:2
Exod. 9:10; Deut. 28:35
16:3
Exod. 7:17–21
16:4
Exod. 7:19–24; Ps. 78:44
16:5
Exod. 3:14; Deut. 32:4; Pss. 119:137; 145:17
16:6
Ps. 79:3; Isa. 49:26
16:7
Pss. 19:9; 119:137; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
16:10
Exod. 10:21; Isa. 8:22
16:12
Isa. 11:15; 44:27; Jer. 50:38; 51:36
16:14
Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
16:16
Judg. 5:19; 2 Kings 9:27; 23:29; Zech. 12:11
16:17
Isa. 66:6
16:18
Exod. 19:16–19; Esther 1:1d LXX; Dan. 12:1
16:19
Ps. 75:8; Isa. 51:17, 22; Jer. 25:15
16:21
Exod. 9:24
17:1
Jer. 51:13
17:2
Isa. 23:17; Jer. 51:7
17:4
Jer. 51:7; Ezek. 28:13
17:8
Exod. 32:32, 33; Ps. 69:28; Dan. 7:3; 12:1
17:12
Dan. 7:24
17:14
Deut. 10:17; Dan. 2:47; 1 En. 9:4; 2 Macc. 13:4; 3 Macc. 5:35
17:16
Lev. 21:9
18:2
Isa. 13:21; 21:9; 34:11; Jer. 50:39; 51:8; Bar. 4:35
18:3
Isa. 23:17; Jer. 51:7
18:4
Isa. 48:20; 52:11; Jer. 50:8; 51:6, 9, 45
18:5
Gen. 18:20, 21; Jer. 51:9
18:6
Ps. 137:8; Jer. 50:15, 29
18:7–8
Isa. 47:7–9
18:8
Lev. 21:9; Jer. 50:34
18:9
Ezek. 26:16; 27:30–35
18:10
Ezek. 26:17; Dan. 4:30
18:11
Ezek. 27:36
18:12–13
Ezek. 27:12, 13, 22
18:15
Ezek. 27:36
18:16
Ezek. 28:13
18:17
Ezek. 27:27–29
18:18
Ezek. 27:32
18:19
Ezek. 27:30–34
18:20
Deut. 32:43 LXX; Ps. 96:11; Isa. 44:23; 49:13; Jer. 51:48
18:21
Jer. 51:63–64; Ezek. 26:21
18:22
Isa. 24:8; Ezek. 26:13
18:23
Isa. 23:8; 47:9; Jer. 7:34; 16:9; Jer. 25:10
18:24
Jer. 51:49; Ezek. 24:7
19:1
Tob. 13:17
19:2
Deut. 32:43; 2 Kings 9:7; Pss. 19:9; 79:10; 119:137
19:3
Isa. 34:10
19:4
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
19:5
Pss. 22:23; 115:13; 134:1; 135:1
19:6
Exod. 15:18; Pss. 22:28; 93:1; 97:1; 99:1; Ezek. 1:24; 43:2; Dan. 7:14; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX; Zech. 14:9
19:8
Isa. 61:10
19:11
Ps. 96:13; Isa. 11:4; Ezek. 1:1; Zech. 1:8; 6:3, 6
19:12
Dan. 10:6
19:13
Isa. 63:1–3
19:15
Ps. 2:9; Isa. 49:2; 63:3; Lam. 1:15; Joel 3:13; Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
19:16
Deut. 10:17; Dan. 2:47; 1 En. 9:4; 2 Macc. 13:4; 3 Macc. 5:35
19:17–18
Ezek. 39:17–20
19:19
Ps. 2:2
19:20
Isa. 30:33
19:21
Ezek. 39:17, 20
20:4
Dan. 7:9, 22, 27
20:6
Exod. 19:6; Isa. 61:6
20:8
Ezek. 7:2; 38:2
20:9
2 Kings 1:10; Ezek. 38:22; 39:6
20:10
Gen. 19:24; Ps. 11:6; Isa. 30:33; Ezek. 38:22; 3 Macc. 2:5
20:11
Ps. 114:3–7
20:11–12
Dan. 7:9–10
20:12
Exod. 32:32, 33; Ps. 69:28; Dan. 12:1
20:12–13
Pss. 28:4; 62:12; Prov. 24:12; Isa. 59:18; Jer. 17:10
20:15
Exod. 32:32, 33; Ps. 69:28; Isa. 30:33; Dan. 12:1
21:1
Isa. 65:17; 66:22
21:2
Isa. 52:1; 61:10
21:3
Lev. 26:11–12; 2 Chron. 6:18; Ezek. 37:27; Zech. 2:10
21:4
Isa. 25:8; 35:10; 65:19
21:5
1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Ps. 47:8; Isa. 6:1; Ezek. 1:26–27; Sir. 1:8
21:6
Ps. 36:9; Isa. 44:6; 48:12; 55:1; Jer. 2:13
21:7
2 Sam. 7:14
21:8
Gen. 19:24; Ps. 11:6; Isa. 30:33; Ezek. 38:22; 3 Macc. 2:5
21:10
Ezek. 40:2
21:11
Isa. 60:1, 2, 19
21:12–13
Exod. 28:21; Ezek. 48:30–35
21:15
Ezek. 40:3, 5
21:16–17
Ezek. 48:16, 17
21:19
Isa. 54:11–12
21:22
Amos 3:13 LXX; 4:13 LXX
21:23
Isa. 60:19–20
21:24
Isa. 60:3, 5; Pss. Sol. 17:31
21:25
Isa. 60:11; Zech. 14:7
21:26
Ps. 72:10–11; Pss. Sol. 17:31
21:27
Exod. 32:32, 33; Ps. 69:28; Isa. 52:1; Dan. 12:1
22:1
Ezek. 47:1; Joel 3:18; Zech. 14:8
22:2
Gen. 2:9; 3:22; Ezek. 47:12
22:3
Zech. 14:11
22:4
Pss. 17:15; 42:2
22:5
Isa. 60:19–20; Dan. 7:18, 27; Zech. 14:7
22:6
Dan. 2:28, 29, 45
22:10
Dan. 12:4
22:12
Pss. 28:4; 62:12; Prov. 24:12; Isa. 40:10; 59:18; 62:11; Jer. 17:10
22:13
Isa. 44:6; 48:12
22:14
Gen. 2:9; 3:22; Ezek. 47:12
22:16
Num. 24:17; Isa. 11:1, 10
22:17
Isa. 55:1
22:18–19
Deut. 4:2; 12:32
22:19
Gen. 2:9; 3:22; Ezek. 47:12


Mark Wilson, Charts on the Book of Revelation: Literary, Historical, and Theological Perspectives, Kregel Charts of the Bible and Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Academic & Professional, 2007), 25–30.

Posts 1371
LogosEmployee
Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 7:03 AM

Hi folks.

I really appreciate the discussion here. Thanks!

Mark Barnes:

Jeff Jackson:
Of course Rick made his own choices but it seems many of the 300+ other parallels may be more a shared idiom than conscious evocation of the OT passage, which is certainly interesting in its own right.

I'm certainly interested in further improving intertextual datasets. For me the echoes are where you can add most value, as the quotations and the most obviously allusions can usually be easily found in footnotes.

It's true, the further we move from the more obvious cases (quotations and citations), the more subjectivity plays a role in the classifications. That's not a bad thing, and I think those involved in the discussion here realize this. As mentioned above, I'm most definitely not against expanding the set of references. It's just that the jump from where we are to where folks seem to say they want to go is large. For me, teasing out the differences between something that is an echo or allusion and something that is a "verbal parallel" is the important next step.

Mark Barnes:
But an expanded interactive and accompanying visual filter that marked quotations, allusions, and 'echoes'. I'd envision the visual filter applying colour coding to Bibles (different colours for different types of usage), together with an indicator I could hover over to get the other texts.

So, I'm sure Mark already knows this, but with the additional dataset delivered as part of Logos Now, you can search using the Intertext label; and you can set up a visual filter using the existing implementation of the dataset. Further, if your information panel is open, the "Intertext" label will show, with the 'Source' reference and classification, in the "Other References" section of the panel. For example, when I hover (my settings, yours may differ) 1Tim 5.18, the following appears in my info panel:

Note that if I was in Deut 25:4, I'd see the following in the Info panel:

To summarize where we're at: I think the present NT Use of OT interactive (+dataset) is the first step, not the last word. I think the response to the interactive shows that there is more work to do here to meet the needs of folks who find this information valuable as they study, learn, and teach. I'm honestly encouraged and flattered by the response. As I mentioned above, I've already filed an issue in our internal systems to figure out ways to expand the data. I can't say this is at the top of my list or my team's list, but it's in the queue to figure out.

Keep the discussion going if you'd like, it is useful for us to see.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 13413
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 7:24 AM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
So, I'm sure Mark already knows this, but with the additional dataset delivered as part of Logos Now, you can search using the Intertext label; and you can set up a visual filter using the existing implementation of the dataset.

Unfortunately, this is extremely slow. A simple visual filter applying to four types of colour coding several minutes to apply, even on my relatively fast PC. From my log file:

LibrarySearcher (1m 43.3s) Searching SingleResource for: {Label Intertext WHERE Relationship = "Quotation"} OR {Label Intertext WHERE Relationship = "Citation"}
LibrarySearcher (1m 6.8s) Searching SingleResource for: {Label Intertext WHERE Relationship = "Allusion"}
LibrarySearcher (35.78s) Searching SingleResource for: {Label Intertext WHERE Relationship = "Echo"}
Posts 13413
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2015 7:34 AM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
For me, teasing out the differences between something that is an echo or allusion and something that is a "verbal parallel" is the important next step.

Again, Beale is very helpful on this in chapter 2 of his Handbook on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament: Exegesis and Interpretation. In that chapter he covers both criteria and sources.

Posts 9029
LogosEmployee

Mark Barnes:
Unfortunately, this is extremely slow.

This is a known issue with {Label} searches.

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