Still using L3? Prefer L3?

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This post has 55 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Feb 19 2010 2:59 AM

Just curious...

Anyone out there who is finding it hard or even impossible to bring themselves to adopt L4?

I am using L3 about 99+% of the time. I open L4 every once in a while, but I usually regret doing so because it just reminds me of what it's not. Not just that's it's not L3...but that it lost so much of what I love (i.e. use) about L3. In fact, I sort of resent L4 precisely because the few minor changes that could make L3 exactly what I want and need are essentially buried along with the whole "L3 improvements drawing board".

I acknowledge L4's potentially greater power, but the disappointment factor consistently overwhelms me every time I try to wade back in. It almost never does what I want it to do. I have a sliver of hope that things will improve, but I heard Bob say with his own mouth, and in a couple of instances in one-on-one conversation, that certain things that console me are gone.

Does this strike a chord with anyone else?  I'd like to hear the reasons you feel this way.

 

Oh, all you L4 apologists and fanatics...this isn't your party. Thanks. (Btw, this is in the L4 thread on purpose, because I'm talking to people who have L4.)

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 4:16 AM

David Paul:
Anyone out there who is finding it hard or even impossible to bring themselves to adopt L4?

I use L3 for the features that haven't been implemented in L4 Vocab lists and Verse lists. Other than that, the answer to your question is no. I am using L4 more on a day to day basis than I ever used L3, but that has little to do with any failing of L3,  L4 is more Mac like in it's implementation and as such I am drawn to it and as you mentioned, it's potential is greater.

 

David Paul:
Does this strike a chord with anyone else?  I'd like to hear the reasons you feel this way.
Your question is phrased to illicit answers from people who agree and disagree with the question. Yet this next phrase

David Paul:
Oh, all you L4 apologists and fanatics...this isn't your party.

Tells me you are possibly only seeking answers from L4 Haters, since I do not put myself in any of those categories, I will risk answering your question honestly.

 

 

Posts 218
John Nerdue | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 4:43 AM

I don't hate L4 but do dislike it. I might have hatted it when I first got it but that has changed. I use L3 all the time and only rarely even start up L4. I am comfortable with L3 and like what I can do with it plus there are things missing from L4 also L4 seems to run very slow for me.

But again I don't hate L4.

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 5:31 AM

I have adopted the use of Logos 4 slowly. I had a reading schedule that I only recently moved over to L4. The videos have been a big help to me to make the transition. I have watched most of the videos made by private users as they show how to bring the various aspects of Logos 4 together at one time. It has been a month since I have opened version 3. I never hated Logos 4, it was just difficult for my to adapt in part to the speed of my system and download speed.

Posts 10223
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 6:28 AM

I bought the L4 cross-upgrade, tried it out and eventually uninstalled it. But I am impressed how emotional people get over the software (vs Bible study). I think Bob's blog that intro'd L4 was both clear and honest ... the company wanted to go in a new direction and made a decision. Nothing wrong with that. I also made a decision prior to that, that I wanted a PC that could stay on battery for long hours, and that meant a low-power chip. So as a user, priorities have to be weighed and L3 does a solid 95% of L4. The cross-upgrade was great; I wanted to resources and they run in L3. And I ended up buying a bunch more resources from reading the L4 forum. I still think L4 will be a bridge to the iPhone/iPad approach, which is much more supportable by Logos. I personally doubt the L4 model is sustainable across so many PCs with so many potential problems. So, I like L3 but I'm also impressed with Logos management as well.

 


Posts 350
Chuck P. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 6:30 AM

When I write my Sunday School lessons I have L3 up beside L4.   I use the parallel passages in L3 since they will easily copy and paste into my Word document.  It can be done in L4, but Word treats them as cells which is a little cumbersome to work with.   I use 3 versions in the parallel and L3 makes it so simple to copy and paste.

Chuck

Laptop: Lenovo P580 - 15.6" IdeaPad Laptop
 - 6GB Memory - 750GB Hard Drive - Windows 7
 Iphone5s            Logos 7, Bronze

Posts 4628
Forum MVP
Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:01 AM

I purchsed L4 the first week it came out and within a couple of weeks found myself using it far more on a daily basis than  i ever used L3. The more I learn about it and see the potedntial of this program the more I like it. It is not perfect yet but I see it as being an infant that needs to be supported and raised up so that it can become what we want it to be. After joining in the 4b beta family and seeing the progress there (probably to be an RC soon) I have removed L3 from my computers.

 

Posts 31
Wes Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:08 AM

I too agree with the original post. I bought L4 early on, and have accomplished nothing with it except to try several times to jump over the new learning curve, which hasn't worked and has cost me many hours, just trying to use basic features which apparently are intentionally not functioning properly yet. I spent over an hour trying to make the copy bible verse tool work properly one day, and it still does not. If you try to format it, it copys the actual words [full book name] instead of actually doing the book name. That is a big tool for me because I do A LOT of bible study, where I go through the whole bible or NT and look for passage that have to do with topics and then copy paste them all in word documents so that I can  go back and study that topic. So I would like them formated in an easily readable format, which I had come up with in L3, but is not reproducable in L4.

The issue I have with L4 is that it doesn't do basic things L3 did well, like a pop up with for Greek in the NAS. I am fine with adding the new information window, but why not have a few options that allow me to do it the old way too? I like to have minimal information on my screen, normally just one screen with the Bible up. I don't want information boxes or anything else open. And then not coming up with a note importing tool that works seems to be inexcusable. I teach my discipleship groups from my laptop withLogos open, and I have spent a lot of time making notes so that I can help others know God's word better. And I am not willing to sacrifice all that  research that is in L3, but now not in L4.

All that said, L4 does seem like it has a lot of potential, but it also seems quite unfinished. You would think for the $1,000 or more for a piece of software, that it would come ready to really use and would be a clear upgrade from L3.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:28 AM

David Paul:

Just curious...

Anyone out there who is finding it hard or even impossible to bring themselves to adopt L4?

I am using L3 about 99+% of the time. I open L4 every once in a while, but I usually regret doing so because it just reminds me of what it's not. Not just that's it's not L3...but that it lost so much of what I love (i.e. use) about L3. In fact, I sort of resent L4 precisely because the few minor changes that could make L3 exactly what I want and need are essentially buried along with the whole "L3 improvements drawing board".

I acknowledge L4's potentially greater power, but the disappointment factor consistently overwhelms me every time I try to wade back in. It almost never does what I want it to do. I have a sliver of hope that things will improve, but I heard Bob say with his own mouth, and in a couple of instances in one-on-one conversation, that certain things that console me are gone.

Does this strike a chord with anyone else?  I'd like to hear the reasons you feel this way.

 

Oh, all you L4 apologists and fanatics...this isn't your party. Thanks. (Btw, this is in the L4 thread on purpose, because I'm talking to people who have L4.)

I too use L3 99.99% of the time, and for the same reason - what L4 does not have - usable notes.  Currently L4 does not import any of my information from L3.  It does not bring in my collections, it does not bring in my notes, it does not bring in my preferences, it does not bring in my workspaces.

The most important part of any software program is the user's data.  If Logos does not support or import our L3 data in L4, why should I spend the time to redo all of  my work and support Logos because Logos wants to go in a new direction and not bring me along with them?

FYI...  I do have the beta version of L4 so that I could import my notes, and the note function is not, in my eyes, what Bob said they were going to do with it.  

Bob said on July 4, 2009,

Bob Pritchett:
Let me start by saying we ARE improving notes in the next release, and implementing many of the most commonly requested features.

So far, I have not seen any improvements with Logos' notes.

Posts 1960
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:33 AM

I use L3 when L4 crashes on my machine which so far, is most of the time.  L4 is either updating, indexing or crashing.  I had an update notice yesterday, did an update, did an index and then when I opened L4 again, had another update to download (I did not download it yet but it annoyed me greatly).  When I try to use L4 (and I love L4), I find that I cannot use it for searches without a crash.  So I go to L3 when I need a stable program.

Posts 3
William Darius Myers | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:54 AM

It has not been impossible to bring myself to use L4.

It has simply been impossible, so far, to use L4--except after 20+ hours of waiting for the program to finish what IT wants to do. I think I might eventually be able to learn where they've put everything, if I had days available to sit and wait and watch my computer screen spin those wheel-less spokes. (Is that subtly symbolic that we're going nowhere, staring at the screen for the next question to be answered?)

I understand the criticism above regarding those whose emotions run higher for software than for Bible study--but at this point, all I have to go on is the experience of having to play with the software that no longer allows me the Bible study. I have yet to make the program functional on my reasonably fast, well-RAMmed, and stable-XP operating system computer.

In the first two of the three times I have attempted to use the software since installing it, I have spent a day without use of my computer as the process of "downloading updates" (of 132.6M most recently), "preparing library" (for about ten minutes), "indexing library-calculating time remaining" (fourteen minutes this last time), and finally "indexing library - 20 hours remaining." I have allowed it to complete the process the first two times. This morning I finally aborted this most recent attempt, and once again sought for information among the multiple FAQs, blogs, boards, and other information abounding (primarily on the advantages of purchasing the upgrade). But I have found no help here. I may have missed something in nearly an hour of searching. But most of the discussion have to do with actually USING the software, which I have yet to accomplish successfully.

So, then, it's probably just me. It's a unique experience related to some obscure idiosyncrasy of my hardware, or other software, or a virus, or a trojan. Therefore, no purchasers should be dissuaded from using L4 on the basis of my experience.

But if I had known that purchasing the upgrade to L4 would result in far more attention to the software than to the scripture (which had been the beauty of L3), I could have found far better uses for that portion of this pastor's limited resources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posts 3665
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:54 AM

I am using L4 most of the time now - mostly because I had a system crash (since repaired under warranty).

The reinstall of L3 was delayed when we had a planned trip (New Orleans for Congress on Evangelism) and a family emergency (Northern California) which kept me away from home for all but four days in January.  I finally began the reinstall L3 on Wednesday night.

Having used L4 for all of January, I am becoming more familiar with it.  However, I will be using L3 for

  1. formated copying into Word, OneNote, and TheJournal - a must have, if I am going to leave L3 behind - with footnotes or endnotes
  2. printing - since I do most of my printing from the three programs mentioned above, this is less critical
  3. Greek and Hebrew assistance - given the usefulness of Strongs numbering (i.e. CWSB - which is non-functional in L4)

By the way, I was asking myself the same question late last night and was planning on posting a similar question.  

Blessings,

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 8:12 AM

I put L4 on a new laptop.  L3 is still on my older computer.  Can I install my L3 on my new laptop?  What would I need to do?

Thanks in advance.

Sharon

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 87
Ray D | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 8:33 AM

David Paul:

Oh, all you L4 apologists and fanatics...this isn't your party. Thanks. (Btw, this is in the L4 thread on purpose, because I'm talking to people who have L4.)

Not an apologists or a fanatic, so I sense a freedom to join the party. I use L4 100% of the time. Not only that, I use it much more frequently than I even did L3. I actually totally uninstalled L3. Having said that, I am anxiously anticipating future releases that will make a wonderful product even better. My conclusion, we are all different and have a diversity of different needs and approaches to a tool and features that assist in Bible study. To some L3 will appeal more... to others, like me, L4 will appeal more. I am therefore very pleased with the direction that Logos is taking.

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 9:28 AM

I really enjoy studying the bible!!!   There I said it, I enjoy studying the bible, not studying bible study programs.

I bought Logos 4 on the first day it came out, and spent nearly a month totally hating it.   But then got both the new manuals and figured things out and started loving it.

But it is not complete and although I really love the program as far as it goes, it does not go far enough.  I know the other functions are on the way, but for right now I am tired of waiting, I am tired of all the downloads-indexing-slow performance-you need to wade through the forums to find the information to fix the latest fix, stuff.  I am just tired of it!

So I have gone back to Logos 3, with all my new resources and to a place where I can study the bible rather than study bible programs.

So I don't have to be frustrated with Logos 4, I will wait until they get the features out and the fixes in, and then go back to it, but  they need to get their thoughts together about the note taking feature or I will end up using Logos 3 most of the time.  The funny thing is at Camp Logos 1 and 2 they teach you good ways to use your notes, and give you ideas that will forever change your view of the notes function, and then Logos 4  comes along and makes those ideas harder than ever to accomplish!!!

In Christ,

Jim

Posts 77
Geneva Smith Krag | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 10:44 AM

I purchased L4 because of the raw potential of the program. I have read through parts of the forum (thank you all for participating!) and watched the videos. I am planning to acquire a laptop which will have power sufficient to utilize L4 in my class teaching. I think I like the program. I think I do.

Okay, not having the NASB77 available as a Bible was an initial barrier to using L4 for my personal devotions. That has changed with the recent update. I give Logos and Bob credit for making that problem for me go away. (Thank you!)

I am a creature of habit, and I am used to L3. I do most of my work in L3. (I still find Bible Speed Search to be more useful than the L4 search function. That is probably a familiarity issue on my part.)

I believe that there will come a day when my use of L4 will be greater than my use of L3 (and I look forward to that day), but L3 does the job for me right now.

Posts 2736
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 12:05 PM

I use Logos 4 for most of my study, sermon preparation and even devotion. I open Logos 3 only when I need to use my Czech and Polish PBB Bibles. The day Logos 4 will implement PBB support I am going to uninstall Logos 3. Am I fanatic? No, just happy with all the new ways of working with Logos.

Bohuslav

Posts 301
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 1:41 PM

I'll join and say that I use L3 for my "work" and L4 for what it does exceptionally well, e.g., search. With all my notes, hyperlinks, favorites still wedded to L3, it can't be abandoned for "work"! Not "if," but "when" L4 catches up with L3 it will most definitely be my main piece of working software. Come on L4!

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 1:47 PM

I waited until near the end of the special discounts to upgrade to L4. The main reason that I wanted the upgrade was to add the additional resources moving from L3 Gold to L4 Platinum.

I still work primarily in L3, but like some of the new features of L4. I have followed all the discussions on the forum and have watched some of the videos. I just haven't had the time to really devote to learning how to fully use L4 yet.

I haven't had any crashes, etc. It seems to function fine.

It's the operator that isn't up to speed yet. Confused  

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 2:25 PM

Terry Poperszky:

David Paul:
Does this strike a chord with anyone else?  I'd like to hear the reasons you feel this way.
Your question is phrased to illicit answers from people who agree and disagree with the question.

Um, no, Terry...it isn't phrased that way. Not even remotely so. I'm amazed you feel you could say something so...untrue...in a public forum.

I asked specifically if anyone has the same reservations as I do. I DIDN'T ask if people don't have those reservations...I know many don't. I said very clearly that I wanted to hear reasons why folks might have reservations or dissatisfaction with the program.

Your response is akin to the thick students I teach who are so intent and focused on themselves that they have to mouth off whenever they perceive the slightest provocation. If during a test I say, "Anyone who is talking will have their paper taken up and receive a zero," they immediately respond, "I'm not talking!"  I of course respond, "You are now," and take their paper. I might have made the comment specifically to curtail a different student who is about to speak, but the first student, otherwise harmlessly engaged in the test, suddenly perceives a challenge (where none was issued) that he or she feels unable to ignore.

Whether a person "hates" L4 or not is not a concern of mine, although I would like to hear why they do hate it if they do. I am trying to give voice to those who are, for whatever reason, not satisfied enough with L4 to migrate to the new platform. I anticipated there would be those who, like you, would (for reasons I can't really understand...it just seems bizarre) feel compelled to jump into defense (attack?) mode. I noticed very soon after beginning to post on this forum that nearly any dissatisfaction or frustration expressed w/L4 was almost instantly crushed beneath a collective jackboot, a la Stalin or Mao. It's happened to me and I've seen it happen to others. Actually, I don't perceive it to be an organized move of the company in any way, so a better analogy would probably be the Basij, the volunteer militia that helped crush the uprising after the rigged Iranian elections.

You will of course say you have done no such thing...but by capitalizing the word "Haters" you certainly have purposefully attempted to "blackwash" anyone who might consider responding to my query. You then justified doing so by insisting something was true that patently was not, twisting my words to suit your purpose and intentions.

For the record, I don't hate L4...but even if I did, what concern is that of yours? It isn't...period. If there are people who have spent hundreds or even thousands on this program who find it isn't performing as it should for them, they have every right to say so on this forum without being berated, castigated, harangued, or scolded for their lack of satisfaction. People have a RIGHT to express their frustration if their attempts to effectively use the software are consistently frustrated. And there is no reason they should have to mollycoddle the hairtrigger sensibilities of either Logos cheerleaders or "niceniks" who grossly confuse dissatisfaction with a lack of loyalty to Logos (an odd notion, regardless) or worse, a lack of Christianity.

Do you want to cheer for Logos?  Fine, be my guest and more power to you--let me introduce you to the button called "Write a New Post".

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