Linux version of Logos Bible Software

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Posts 84
aaylnx | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 8:20 AM

Bill,

IMHO, upstreaming to Debian would be ideal, however, as I'm sure you know, the current setup depends upon the Ubuntu PPA system.  I am not a Debian packager, but if there are any here who are (or any who would like to learn to be one), I am sure that Rik would appreciate any effort to port.  As it is, I think he probably has his hands full.

As wonderful of a target as Debian is, I think targeting Flatpak or an Appimage would also be wonderful.  Personally, I use a lot of Snaps, but, again, that is a bit Ubuntu centric.  If anyone has an interest in working on a Flatpak or Appimage, I'm sure that would also be greatly appreciated.  

Adam

Posts 849
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 9:37 AM

Adam,

Thanks for your comments. I'd help if I had packaging skills, but sadly I do not. I am a willing tester, though.

The reason I asked about Debian is that Chromebooks by default use Debian containers. You can use other distributions like Ubuntu, but I think the average, non-technical user wouldn't want to go through all of the extra steps to set it up. On the other hand, I am sure you could argue that anyone who uses the Linux containers on a Chromebook has a certain familiarity with using Linux.

I tried some hacks I googled to try to get the PPA working in a Debian container without success. I noticed on the Google Doc for wasta-logos that someone got this running on Arch and Manjaro. That's what got me wondering about Debian.

I have used Flatpaks in both my Debian and Ubuntu containers, so I know those would work. Unfortunately, Snaps do not work because the containers rely on Wayland.

Posts 1043
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 3:13 PM

You can use debian fairly easily now. Since Louis' patch made it into winehq-staging 4.21. If you install that package, you should be good to go. Just follow the guide as if building from src but don't build from src use the winehq package.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1043
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 3:19 PM

Frank Sauer:

Having the layout load fixes one of the two things I was missing from Windows. Now if we could only get the Print function to recognize the printer and print.

I'm hopeful about getting print to work but I'm focusing on videos and speech at the moment. The print system in use seems to be using gdi plus which can be installed by winetricks (might work with a native dll override?). As a work around you can copy and paste or save word docs etc from the print/export dialogue and then print from libreoffice.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 13
Nick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 3:21 PM

This is my Debian "how to".  My running Logos has not yet been tested as to what works and doesn't.  But a lot certainly seems to.  What follows may need filling out, so feel free to ask any questions. 

Many thanks for everyone's hard work.

======================================

I had previously enabled multi-arch on an amd64 system:

# dpkg --add-architecture i386
# aptitude update

Download and install the winehq repository key:

$ wget -nc https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/winehq.key
$ sudo apt-key add winehq.key

/etc/apt/sources.list:

deb [arch=amd64,i386] http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ buster main non-free contrib
deb-src [arch=amd64,i386] http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ buster main non-free contrib

deb [arch=amd64,i386] http://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src [arch=amd64,i386] http://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main contrib non-free

deb [arch=amd64,i386] http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
deb-src [arch=amd64,i386] http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free

#Wine
deb [arch=amd64,i386] http://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian/ bullseye main

# aptitude update

wine-staging installed at version 4.21~bullseye
winetricks installed at version 0.0+20190912-1
winbind installed at version 2:4.11.1+dfsg-3 (relates to an error on a previous installation attempt, and this was a possible solution)
cabextract installed at version 1.9-2+b1

Set up 64 bit wine bottle:

$ WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ WINEARCH=win64 wineboot

click "Cancel" to avoid installation of Mono (don't recall it asking about Gecko)

install dotNet:

$ WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ winetricks -q dotnet472

install Core Fonts:

$ WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ winetricks -q corefonts

enable font smoothing:

$ WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ winetricks settings fontsmooth=rgb

enable gdi fix:

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/winetricks ddr=gdi

run Logos x64:

$ WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ msiexec /i /path/to/Logos/Installer/Logos-x64.msi

run Logos

$ WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ wine64 $HOME/wine-logos8/drive_c/users/$USER/Local\ Settings/Application\ Data/Logos/Logos.exe LC_ALL=C

crash. Then goes to a blank sign in screen, but just enough visible to sign in.

"Download your Logos 8 Library"

"Downloading resources". 100% of 12Gb download

"Preparing Library"

"Indexing"

(Edited 5/12/2019 to include gdi fix from John Goodman, instructions for winehq repository key, multi-arch)

======================================

Posts 1043
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 4:28 PM

Insert this step after fonstmooth one.

Possibly you can just run

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/winetricks ddr=gdi

otherwise

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ winetricks settings

tick drr=gdi

ok

will fix black boxes.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 849
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 6:33 PM

John Goodman:

You can use debian fairly easily now. Since Louis' patch made it into winehq-staging 4.21. If you install that package, you should be good to go. Just follow the guide as if building from src but don't build from src use the winehq package.

John, can you provide a little more specific detail on your suggestion? Where do I get winehq-staging? And what steps of the guide as if building from source do I follow? Sorry that I am not more proficient in Linux.

Posts 849
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 7:59 PM

Bill Anderson:

John Goodman:

You can use debian fairly easily now. Since Louis' patch made it into winehq-staging 4.21. If you install that package, you should be good to go. Just follow the guide as if building from src but don't build from src use the winehq package.

John, can you provide a little more specific detail on your suggestion? Where do I get winehq-staging? And what steps of the guide as if building from source do I follow? Sorry that I am not more proficient in Linux.

So I modified my sources.list to include Nick's sources (sans UK mirrors) and installed the wine key. After that, I could install winehq-staging. After that, I downloaded wasta-logos-setup and than ran it, and now Logos is installing as we speak.

Posts 13
Nick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2019 11:25 PM

Bill Anderson:

After that, I could install winehq-staging. After that, I downloaded wasta-logos-setup and than ran it, and now Logos is installing as we speak.

Just a quick question, Bill:

Did you need to install wasta-logos-setup?  If so, why?

I DIDN'T do so under debian in the instructions above, and results that are not at all bad . . .

My suspicion (which may be wrong) is that you might have a problem with an incorrect libjpeg using wasta-* (I did, but other things have changed in my system since then)

Posts 1043
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 5:48 AM

Nick:
Did you need to install wasta-logos-setup?  If so, why?

No you don't, your instructions do everything that it does except setting drr=gdi with winetricks.

It's a bad idea because wasta-logos-setup is designed for ubuntu, can't be sure if it will work.

I recommend to use Nick's instructions but do set drr=gdi otherwise you will most likely get graphical glitching. (Possibly some graphics cards / drivers will not need this)

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 13
Nick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 10:00 AM

Thanks.  Instructions updated!

Posts 849
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 10:06 AM

Following Nick's instructions went OK until I installed dot.net. It looked like it didn't complete after a very long time but when I exited out and reran the command to install it, it said it was installed.

Then, when I tried to install the Logos msi it didn't seem to do anything. It was very quick. Here's what I got:

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ msiexec /i /path/to/Logos/Installer/Logos-x64.msi
000b:fixme:winediag:start_process Wine Staging 4.21 is a testing version containing experimental patches.
000b:fixme:winediag:start_process Please mention your exact version when filing bug reports on winehq.org.

Then, when I issued the run Logos command, I received back this: 

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ wine64 $HOME/wine-logos8/drive_c/users/$USER/Local\ Settings/Application\ Data/Logos/Logos.exe LC_ALL=C
wine: cannot find '/home/wmadan/wine-logos8/drive_c/users/wmadan/Local Settings/Application Data/Logos/Logos.exe'

Posts 13
Nick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 10:24 AM

Bill, stupid question, in the first instance, but you did make the path in bold below local to your own system (sorry if my notes were confusing):
WINEPREFIX=$HOME/wine-logos8/ msiexec /i /path/to/Logos/Installer/Logos-x64.msi

All the best.

Nick

PS My dotnet install took a long time - it must have installed a few versions including the final one.  Going from memory, there were a couple of points where I could see a script hadn't finished, but when I pressed "Enter" the script seemed to return me to the prompt.  I can't quite remember at what point that happened - it may have been a previous install.

Posts 849
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 11:23 AM

Nick,

Duh! Thank you. But, where is the .msi stored? I can't find it. Was it installed with dot.net or winehq-staging? Do I have to manually get it from the Faithlife website?

Posts 1043
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 11:46 AM

The most up to date links to the msi are in the build from src section of the google doc. I updated them yesterday.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 13
Nick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 1:01 PM

Bill, yes, you have to download the .msi file from the Logos website.  And then replace the bit of the path in bold above to that link.

wget https://downloads.logoscdn.com/LBS8/Installer/8.8.0.0046/Logos-x64.msi

I don't seem able to update my "how to" any more.

Many Thanks

Nick

Posts 849
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 5 2019 6:17 PM

I got it running, finally. Thanks for everyone's patience with me.

But, the Debian container runs slower than the Ubuntu container, so it's back to that one for me.

Posts 5
Andrew J. Allcock | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 6 2019 1:50 AM

How hard can it be? No, seriously! If we can get an Android and Mac version then why not Linux? Logos is the only reason I have to keep any one of my computers booting into Windoze. Now there is a workable online version I might ditch that as it's Windoze 7 and Logos say they will no longer support this. Well, I'm not wasting money on getting another version of Windoze but I would rather have the full functionality of an installed version.

Posts 13
Nick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 6 2019 2:54 AM

Bill

Bill Anderson:

But, the Debian container runs slower than the Ubuntu container, so it's back to that one for me.

I don't believe my "how to" involves a container.

I've not yet got to grips with the indexing.  That lengthy process might be slowing it down. 

There's also a possible question over the whether the "path:parse_url failed to parse L" errors in the terminal slow things down, which I think John has mentioned: i.e. whether running Logos without LC_ALL=C at the end slows things down.  I don't know too much about this aspect of things.  He might have an opinion.

Posts 1043
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 6 2019 8:00 AM

Andrew J. Allcock:

How hard can it be? No, seriously! If we can get an Android and Mac version then why not Linux? Logos is the only reason I have to keep any one of my computers booting into Windoze. Now there is a workable online version I might ditch that as it's Windoze 7 and Logos say they will no longer support this. Well, I'm not wasting money on getting another version of Windoze but I would rather have the full functionality of an installed version.

Great question! Part of the answer is very hard and very time consuming. A 'native' linux version would require a massive effort based on what we know of the way Logos is coded and what we've been told. It was coded for Windows using .net and wpf. Wpf is not very portable at all. The mac version was therefore a substantial and costly effort for faithlife. Bob has talked about this and in fact indicated that with hindsight wpf turned out to be an unfortunate choice. That I think shows a real strength of character and in fairness, how could he have known at the time? With it, they have created a Bible package that is IMHO vastly superior to every other!

Faithlife have been helpful and permissive in letting us work as a community towards the wine solution. Bob encouraged it in a forum post. They have answered questions that have helped us solve some significant problems. E.g. which frameworks are used for which feature and indeed given permission for packaging the msi installer with the wasta package.

A lot of the discussion here is from people who are trying to push the boundaries even further. E.g. other distributions, linux containers on chromebooks etc. Which is brilliant! If you want to run Logos on ubuntu with the wasta package then I can confirm it works almost flawlessly for weeks without crashing etc. There are few limitations, no in app playback of video or audiobooks. Pronunciation audio works. You can't print directly but you can save a word doc and print from libreoffice. System Narrator reading also doesn't work but again you could work around that using a web browser or exported. I have used it extensively to study for my last and next sermon series.

There have been some interesting comments on the forum about it being relatively easy with wine... it was not! Several of us spent a lot of time over a few years testing, submitting bug reports and gathering information to get us here. Loius Lenders has written 3 patches etc. At times, a seemingly simple option or config choice required many experiments with solutions that didn't work to get us there. Rik put a lot of work into packaging etc. There is much ongoing work - regressions happen, one has been corrected and we have others upstream that need fixing. When Logos 32bit is no longer available we will need 64bit to be stable (it isn't yet). If Logos drops .net 4.7.2 and jumps to 5 etc again we may be stuck for a while.

All that said, another take on the question is that now, it could be very easy. The windows version is so close to perfect on Linux already that we may well get there very soon. In day to day use it seems to perform better on my older hardware than the mac version does on my newer hardware. That's subjective but certainly my impression.

Looking ahead, .NET 5 is open source and intended to be more portable. Cross platform wpf alternatives already exist with high compatibility. Microsoft are encouraging and making it easier to port wpf code to work with .NET core. Work on media foundation for wine and .NET is well resourced and ongoing. These things may converge in a way that helps us continue to enjoy the benefits of Logos on Linux. They may even get to the point where it is possible for faithlife to build the src against wine libs and go fully native. Genuinely we might be just a couple of registry keys away from fixing the biggest remaining bugs. We will need to be vigilant in testing for and reporting regressions.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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