New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology v.s. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

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This post has 18 Replies | 3 Followers

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Feb 22 2010 1:42 AM

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

How you compare these two titles?

And do you have any other suggestions? I heard that BDAG is quite good. But it seems very technical to me.

It would be great to see that there is a product guide on dictionaries. (I will make a suggestion on that now)

What I think would be useful to me is Septuagint usage, Classical Greek usage, Biblical Usage, and cognate (word families) relation.

Thanks.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 22 2010 7:23 PM

Both are outstanding resources and I have both in book form.  A pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel.  If you feel BDAG is very technical, then definately go with Colin Brown.  It is a little more English friendly.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 22 2010 7:38 PM

The NIDNTT is outstanding and should be your top choice if you feel BDAG is too technical.

I would recommend you look at the abridged TDNT. It is very useful and saves a lot of reading when you don't need the detail of the unabridged version. It is $60.00 from Logos. http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/tdnta

You might be able to get the NIDNTT and the TDNTA together for the same price as the TDNT.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 884
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 22 2010 9:47 PM

Thanks. I saw that in the Amazon, there is an abridged version for the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology. Is it helpful too?

I actually owned the TDNT and TDNTA from the Scholar's Library already. But I want to add one more set of dictionary to have a better study on the words. It seems that NIDNTT is really good. Do you think there is some other good resource too?

And actually, I would like to hear want do you think about BDAG. Why is it so great? How is it compare to the NIDNTT?

By the way, I think one advantage of NIDNTT is that it has a counter part in OT: NIDOTT, which is not true for BDAG or TDNT. So, I will feel that is more consistent to use NIDNTT and NIDOTT as the first reference first and use the other as secondary sources. Do you think this logic is right?

Thanks.

Posts 884
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 22 2010 10:07 PM

Michael Childs:
A pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel.

So, who will use Kittel?

Thanks. By the way, who will use BDAG then? How will you compare BDAG to those two?

Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 1:24 AM

Michael Childs:

Both are outstanding resources and I have both in book form.  A pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel.  If you feel BDAG is very technical, then definately go with Colin Brown.  It is a little more English friendly.

Why do you think a pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel?

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 2:05 AM

Kolen,

BDAG is more concerned with how to translate a Greek word into English, and the range of possibilities that exist for that translation.  It will back that up with examples from various resources which use that particular Greek word.

NIDNTT is more interested in theological usage.  It will compare how a word (say, "holiness") is used in the OT (looking at corresponding Hebrew, and even Greek LXX), even though this is a brief overview, it will look at Classical Greek usage, and finally, it will examine the NT: Synoptic, Johannine, Pauline, etc.  The English editor, Colin Brown, also invests some of his own insights and comments into this originally German work.  Though I don't have it, the NIDOTT is very good, and in a way is the OT counterpart, however, a whole different team has put that together.  It is highly recommended, and I plan to get it on pre-pub.

I like the EDNT very much. It does not go into OT/Classical usage, as the NIDNTT.  Often, I have found I turn to it before the NIDNTT, which i still like very much.  It is a more recent work, too.

 

So, to sum up: the BDAG is a completely different animal from the NIDNTT.  Both are used in different ways.  BDAG is considered the standard (replacing BAGD) for how to translate a word.  But I will add I go to Louw/Nida just as frequently, if not more so, than BDAG (even though they are not the same type of work)

 

In general, I like to have all of them, at times one will shine in some things and not in others, whereas a different resource may do better.  The TDNT is way more extensive than NIDNTT, but they have (to me) a similar structure.  TDNT is probably more 'respected' or 'vaunted', but I turn to NIDNTT way more than the TDNT.  NIDNTT is a bit more concise (which may be why they came out with TDNTA), perhaps a bit more "conservative" and more readable.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 7:18 AM

Time.  Kittel takes more time to find what you need.  Time a pastor does not have.

Just my experience as a pastor.  May be different for others.  But preparing a sermon, I reach for Colin Brown first.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 8:07 AM

Michael Childs:

Time.  Kittel takes more time to find what you need.  Time a pastor does not have.

Just my experience as a pastor.  May be different for others.  But preparing a sermon, I reach for Colin Brown first.

For me, Kittel is one of the first places that I look at when I am doing some research on our Greek NT.

Posts 980
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 9:27 AM

Mark A. Smith:

I would recommend you look at the abridged TDNT. It is very useful and saves a lot of reading when you don't need the detail of the unabridged version. It is $60.00 from Logos. http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/tdnta

I've never used the Abridged TDNT as my Greek exegesis professor 15 years go said it was useless. It has all the conclusions of outdated German scholarship without any of the background information that makes TDNT so valuable. Just his two cents worth but I would use Colin before the aTDNT. I have both in Logos but of course only use the full TDNT.

Tom

Posts 884
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 10:55 AM

Thanks all. After reading comments on TDNT, it seems that it is a mixture of pros and cons (especially about Judaism). So far it seems that no bad comments on NIDNTT (and NIDOTT). It seems that using NIDNTT is more useful and can be trust.

I am still deciding if I should buy the NIDNTT and NIDOTT, since they are on pre-pub now.

For the EDNT, I realize that it is included in the Gold package. I hope that I'd upgrade to that some day (may be at the time of the next great discount).

Posts 1134
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 11:55 AM

Kolen Cheung:

Thanks all. After reading comments on TDNT, it seems that it is a mixture of pros and cons (especially about Judaism). So far it seems that no bad comments on NIDNTT (and NIDOTT). It seems that using NIDNTT is more useful and can be trust.

I am still deciding if I should buy the NIDNTT and NIDOTT, since they are on pre-pub now.

For the EDNT, I realize that it is included in the Gold package. I hope that I'd upgrade to that some day (may be at the time of the next great discount).

Kolen,

I think you have received a lot of great advice in this thread (I learned a lot; thank you, gentlemen!) and you pose an important question.  When it comes to Bible study resources and in this case, language dictionaries in particular, I want them all as they become available in electronic format, given the price is within my budget and if I don't get them on pre-pub, the price is no longer reasonable for me.  I invest a lot in pre-pub so that I don't have to pay over twice the amount later.  Hope this helps.

Posts 82
John W | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 7:38 PM

Thanks, Dan, your post was super helpful! I often don't fully understand the purpose of a work or it's proper use in comparison to others. Your elaboration did that in this case.

Posts 884
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 10:38 PM

Yes. It helps. I think I will buy the NIDOTT and NIDNTT. And for the BDAG, I make a mistake. It only included in the platinum, which I won't buy. So might be I will buy the BDAG/HALOT bundle later, if I got money.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 7:30 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:

Michael Childs:

Both are outstanding resources and I have both in book form.  A pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel.  If you feel BDAG is very technical, then definately go with Colin Brown.  It is a little more English friendly.

Why do you think a pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel?

Both are excellent.  I think a pastor will use Colin Brown more because it is a little briefer and more English friendly.  It is more helpfully organized.  Also, a pastor checking a Greek or Hebrew word for a sermon will find it quite sufficient, and not want to wade through all the detail in Kittel.  That is my experience and opinion.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 8:20 AM

Michael Childs:

Alan Charles Gielczyk:

Michael Childs:

Both are outstanding resources and I have both in book form.  A pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel.  If you feel BDAG is very technical, then definately go with Colin Brown.  It is a little more English friendly.

Why do you think a pastor will use Colin Brown more than Kittel?

Both are excellent.  I think a pastor will use Colin Brown more because it is a little briefer and more English friendly.  It is more helpfully organized.  Also, a pastor checking a Greek or Hebrew word for a sermon will find it quite sufficient, and not want to wade through all the detail in Kittel.  That is my experience and opinion.

Michael,

it seems the thread you are replying to is over seven years old - in the meantime, in addition to Colin Brown there is the update by Moises Sylva (see both under https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=title%3a%22New+International+Dictionary+of+New+Testament+Theology%22

FWIW (I'm not a pastor nor a Greek scholar), it seems that BDAG is seen as the gold standard in terms of lexicon - for theological significance, I own Spicq's TLNT . I've read the free material from Silva's edition that the publisher made available and it very much sounds exactly like one author's musings about theological aspects somewhat related to a Greek term. If one happens to like the position of that author, then it's maybe fine.  

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:20 AM

Spicq is great, I cannot fault that recommendation.... the new set you mention NIDNTTE to me while expanded feels less in someways to me... for example in studying Love Brown will mention the unused yet very important ερως as does TDNT yet NIDNTTE doesn't even touch on it, which to be fair it is not a Biblical word but context as to why the other words for love are used and not ερως can be insightful and a bit puzzling why it is not dealt with (I double checked searching both ερως and eros in NIDNTTE, neither word comes up in the set). I for one like a fuller back ground which is one reason i go to resources like these, I certainly do not expect a full entry on a word not used in the NT but would expect to find it touched upon with a word so common in greek but unused in the NT.

Just a thought thrown out.

-dan

Posts 3080
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 19 2017 3:02 PM

Agreed.

mm.

Michael Childs:

Time.  Kittel takes more time to find what you need.  Time a pastor does not have.

Just my experience as a pastor.  May be different for others.  But preparing a sermon, I reach for Colin Brown first.

mm.

Posts 6412
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 19 2017 4:39 PM

I own Moises Silva's version: https://www.logos.com/product/45403/new-international-dictionary-of-new-testament-theology-and-exegesis and it's outstanding. I got it super cheap too, during a sale ($79.99). I own the OT too. If Colin Brown's version was on sale for $79.99 I'd buy it too.

DAL

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