Dear Faithlife, I am not stupid

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This post has 75 Replies | 5 Followers

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Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 2:42 AM

As far pre-pub- if time comes and I cannot swing it I cancel it- sorry if some feel once you click the button thats it- it is not a "contract" its an offer for lower pricing "if" purchased now.

I take the same view on CP items- I have cancelled them as well once in pre-pub. 

Every book gets several evaluations- even those I want badly- tyhey sometimes get the the goodbye sign- thats life.

Posts 2367
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 2:54 AM

Agreed. It's not a contract and can be cancelled by both sides any time.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 4:46 AM

MJ. Smith:
This is something where we have seen a real division of forum users - those who consider a prepub purchase/bid as a provisional purchase to be decided upon when the resource is close to release and those who consider it a contract to purchase to be broken only under exceptional circumstances.

I only order a pre-pub if I'm intending to buy it — but a lot can change in the months/years before it finally arrives. Faithlife make it clear that you can change your mind about a PrePub at any time, and cancel without penalty.

There are many reasons why people might reasonably change their minds, the three most common (for me) being:

  1. Too many expensive pre-pubs are released at the same time, so I can't afford all of them in one go.
  2. Earlier pre-pubs which take so long to produce, and have have been surpassed by more attractive later pre-pubs.
  3. My financial circumstances have worsened since ordering (or the exchange rate is significantly less favourable).

Posts 557
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 6:18 AM

MJ. Smith:

Please note that I worded my complaint very carefully and meant exactly what I said. Logos has the right to cancel prepubs and that does not upset me. However I am insulted that they expect me to use faulty logic to transfer the "freed" funds to other purchases from them. For all they know, the next item in my spending priorities might be buying a heifer. I always detest errors of logic and probabilistic logic tells me that it is more likely that I will want to obtain the cancelled resources in different formats or transfer the funds to non-book purposes. Their logic would hold if the realm of discourse was limited to users constrained to electronic versions in Logos format with a dedicated book-fund that must be spent in a short time frame.

Yes

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 7:07 AM

Mark Barnes:
Personally, I don't have a problem with the email. Whilst it would have been nice if it had included an expression of regret, you can hardly blame Logos for wanting to put a positive spin on something that's users will find a bit disappointing.

It is my considerable experience that people prefer a little honesty and humility and compassion rather than simplistik (sic) marketing spin That can be seen straight through. Love you Logos, and I know you need to do what you do, and I know I have to pass on som pre-pubs because if monetary limitations, but I grieve some of those lost titles and possibilities.  It is real loss...grief...not in overdramatic fashion, but real nonetheless.  I don't need Logos to tell me I can spend money elsewhere. I'm smart enough to do that.  but when someone skips over my (in context) grief, it in fact feels like they are out of touch with me or dismissive of my hopes and desires--after all, these resources often are, but not always, books that speak to a longing in my own growth or spirituality, and to lose them is sad/disappointing (again folks, in context, this is a loss but not egregious loss, but loss nonetheless). Getting an email like that is merely annoying and does nothing to build relationship. it merely maintains or creates distance. A simple acknowledgement of loss would have implicitly communicated that you "get it".  Peace out. 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 7:42 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

Thanks for the post MJ.

Unfortunately for Faithlife- I have figured out that I wasted 30% of every dollar spent in regards to packages on books I would never use- and have not.

As far as prepubs- well lets say paper is my new friend and kindle is fast replacing FL for my book purchases- I'm actually getting books I want and at a 75% savings across the board in most cases.

Do I care about intergration yes- but alas I also care about stewardship- I can make it work.

I am culling MY prepub books again, by weeks end it will most likely be less than $500.

I have similar feelings, and am grateful that the only package I have bought recently was the original Reformed Platinum.  While I may not read everything in it, having them as resources is great.  And very little fluff in that.  I moved away from any other packages back when L4 came out.  Too much fluff.  I have bought much more definitely and think my budget and learning has benefited from that.

I have tried to refrain much from buying outside of Logos, but find myself having to do more.  Logos simply will not get on par with Amazon or others in their release date.  I have heard about "tagging" ad naseum and never wish to hear it used as an excuse for time or money again.  Last year I spent $200 outside of Logos on books in Kindle alone. 

Posts 10309
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 7:49 AM

Gee, yesterday I was laughingly bragging about beating the prepub sickle of death.

This morning, I received 'the email'. With great trepidation, I opened it, expecting my super-crazy prepubs to have died. Nope ... not a single prepub was listed.

But it caused me to go ahead and cancel some more. I really should concentrate on fewer purchases. Somehow, it all makes sense.


Posts 888
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 7:49 AM

George Somsel:

My interests lie in ancient languages and ANE history. 

ANE Anarchy 'n' Explosives

 from http://www.acronymfinder.com/ANE.html

"I read dead people..."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 8:03 AM

Brother Mark:

George Somsel:

My interests lie in ancient languages and ANE history. 

ANE Anarchy 'n' Explosives

 from http://www.acronymfinder.com/ANE.html

Yes, I'm sure Logos carries many resources on Anarchy 'n' Explosives.  A really vital source on this subject.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 8:36 AM

SineNomine:

MJ. Smith:
I would like to see a more deliberate ordering of offerings to build specific sub-markets.

I would like to see a more careful design of Pre-Pub bundles, especially ones aimed at the Catholic market. Sizeable vaguely thematic collections of vastly varying books by authors often dramatically opposed to each other (even, sometimes, at a personal level) is a poor recipe for successful Pre-Pubs.

As the customer base gets larger and more diverse, there seems to be a good suggestion here.  Pre pubs for submarkets.  As that submarket grows, the demand for a book grows.  It may take years.  So it may not really be a pre pub list, but a submarket wish list which, when reaching a certain level, can be transferred to a different category

Posts 47

Agreed whole-heartedly. I opened my email this morning to find seven prepubs canceled. Somehow Logos equated this to a $3,000 savings to me that I should re-invest in different products. If I wanted different products, I would have ordered different products. Sadly, I will seek these products out via other formats.

Sarah Blake LaRose

http://www.night-light.org

 

Lenovo Thinkpad, 8GB RAM, 1.50GB quad core processor, Win 7, Logos 6

 

Posts 3669
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 9:15 AM

Mark:
I have enjoyed MJ's logic over the years...

YesYesYes

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Bill


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Posts 2856
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 9:33 AM

MJ. Smith:
there is very little chance that the money reflected in the cancelled prepubs will be reinvested in other Logos resources

I still haven't received the email. But then, I'm probably PNG over there. When you get blasted by an employee, I think you get put on a list. It's not a good list. Wink

It is good to see a lot of folks saying what I have been saying for a while. (And some of those folks pooh-poohed me when I first said them.) Sort of a 'sub-vindication.'

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2353
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 10:02 AM

Check your spam box.  Even though I frequently get Logos emails, this one did not go into my inbox.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 10:20 AM

Bob Pritchett:
it appears that in general users have spent close to the same dollars-per-year on add-on books per user.

This reflects my history. I am now more circumspect. I am finding that features and enhancements most important to me languish or are unlikely ever to be included in any Faithlife application. I now increasingly also buy books for other platforms that provide the desired functionality or for which the resource pricing is lower.

Bob Pritchett:
And we're actually working on some 'hacks' to make even more books available (Vyrso-style). 

That seems appropriate. I commend Faithlife for routinely improving existing resources, yet I find many Logos Editions just don't warrant the price premium and likely never will.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 10:27 AM

It's interesting, for years now Bob has commented that in addition to the (most important) mission to take the Bible to as many people as possible in as many ways as possible, there was an underlying reality that the existing customer base would not spend like they have in the past - the the majority of current users purchase the most at the beginning of their Logos relationship, and little if anything after.  I can't help but think at times that some of the policies are effecting a self-fulfilling prophecy with regard to making it easy for long time customers to stay as engaged as in the past.

Hopefully this is just a bump in the road and we see  renewed interest in the existing customer base. Things are often not as bad as they seem when bad, nor as good as they seem when good.

Posts 3137
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 10:50 AM

Bob Pritchett:

In very simplistic terms, it appears that ten years ago we could double the number of titles available and double the purchases, but that now (with 80,000+ titles available), doubling the number of books available (at great cost of production) only increases sales by 10%.

These aren't the real numbers, just explanatory examples.

Bob Pritchett:

But we're going through a phase of dealing with things as they are, not as we wish them to be, and as they are, these books weren't going to get enough interest to move forward. And worse, books that do 'just barely make it' in Pre-Pub are essentially profit-less. So while we might sell a thousand dollars worth of Title X, we end up with $0 to run the business after the cost of the book's production.

That's fine for a title here or there, but doesn't scale well!

Bob, I'm seeing here arguments for more Pre-Pubs that are simultaneously available as singletons and bundles, and also for re-releasing the most saleable individual titles from some of the cancelled Pre-Pub collections. You know as well as we do, I think, that a number of those cancelled Pre-Pub bundles mixed very well known books/authors with virtually unknown and/or completely different authors/books, so now that your emphasis is more on profit/volume than volumes available, having more targeted, smaller Pre-Pub bundles seems to make even more sense. What do you think?

[As a particularly good example of the above phenomenon, consider the late Notre Dame philosopher Ralph McInerny's Ethica Thomistica (cancelled in a CUA Press Pre-Pub collection) is a popular undergraduate and seminarian Intro to Ethics textbook with ecumenical support, and it is commonly recommended to people who are just casually interested in ethics because of its accessibility (and humour). Its potential to sell well is significantly higher than (almost?) every other CUA book that was culled from Pre-Pub.]

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 11:08 AM

MJ. Smith:
I don't attempt to run your business - if you found it advantageous to cancel the pre-pubs so be it. Just don't insult me by trying to turn it into an opportunity for me to spend my money on resources I had obviously given lower priority.

I feel your pain.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 11:17 AM

Mark Barnes:

There are many reasons why people might reasonably change their minds, the three most common (for me) being:

  1. Too many expensive pre-pubs are released at the same time, so I can't afford all of them in one go.
  2. Earlier pre-pubs which take so long to produce, and have have been surpassed by more attractive later pre-pubs.
  3. My financial circumstances have worsened since ordering (or the exchange rate is significantly less favourable).

I think these reasons are spot on. In particular for me, many of the pre-pubs were much more attractive before the exchange rate significantly increased the costs of resources.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 187
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2016 11:29 AM
Unfortunately, Logos have just lost over $13500 (wow!) from prepubs! they cancelled from me! Well, if they don't want my money...!!!
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