Another small increase of dynamic pricing?

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Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2016 4:27 AM

In a previous thread less than 3 weeks ago 

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/123409.aspx

I drew attention to a change in the calculation of dynamic pricing that meant all of us would see an increase in base package upgrades, completing collections, etc. 

In other words the value of our present Logos library has decreased (has been made to decrease) by this new way of calculating dynamic pricing. 

Just today I discovered that it has changed again for the worse. I ordered a new base package yesterday and noted my new dynamic prices for upgrades almost immediately for 16 base packages I hope to purchase someday. 

When I went back online today, all 16 of them have increased! The change is very small, ranging from 4 cents to 20 cents, but I think it is significant because it is the 2nd such change in a few weeks  and it affects us all. Where/when will this stop? How many times is Faithlife going to play around with the calculations? 

There is a psychological buzz when you get a base package upgrade below (say) $400, even if it's only by a few cents. To find then that a change in calculating the value of the books we own has increased the upgrade price to above $400 brings great disappointment - if only for a moment.

When will there be some measure of stability again? How can we plan our buying strategies when the goalposts keep getting moved?  

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 4:49 AM

Colin - I think you need to be very careful about this sort of headline on a thread. It could be construed as slanderous, and I suggest you change it. If you live outside the US the price does change daily with fluctuating exchange rates, and there could be other factors or reasons - prices change on individual books, publishers change discount rates to FL, and so on. You cannot immediately assume it is because FL is price-gouging. It is also, as you mention later in your post, tiny amounts of money on hundreds (or in some cases thousands) of dollars. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 4:57 AM

Thanks Greg for your helpful post - I have changed the title now. I certainly wasn't intending to be slanderous - I was chatting with my daughter this morning about the meaning of the word 'stealth' so it was in my mind. 

You're right, it could be a result of the things you mention but I buy in US dollars so it is not the exchange rate. Perhaps it is a change in the price of one book and that's why the change is so small  - but after the last change in dynamic pricing I worried that we might be in for more of the same. 

Colin

Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 10:35 AM

Has anyone else noticed an increase? 

Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 10:50 AM

The changes seem rather minor, one must realize that at various times publishers wish to adjust the prices of books. From the very minimal price increases I would guess Faithlife is massaging the price discounts offered around on items in there that have no publisher royalty to attempt to keep them as affordable as possible. 

-Dan

Posts 298
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Matthew Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 10:51 AM

Colin:

Has anyone else noticed an increase? 



Colin, if you can provide the product you are referring to (I couldn't find it), I would be happy to take a look at it to ensure that DP is working properly. 

Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 11:40 AM

Thanks for your comment Dan - you're probably right.  

Thanks too for your offer Matthew but it's not just one product. I've probably certainly over-reacted here but I love seeing the price of base packages decrease as I buy other products. I keep track of my prices for base packages and, for example, was overjoyed to discover earlier in the month that it was cheaper for me to buy the Lutheran Bronze before the Silver (rather than going straight to Silver) because it saved me 80 cents! That should give you some insight into my psyche!! (I guess I'm like that person in the joke who dropped a penny and it hit him on the back of the head as he bent down to pick it up Big Smile )

So when I bought Lutheran Gold yesterday I noted all of the new prices for upgrades to the base packages I have in Standard, Reformed, Anglican, Baptist and Lutheran as well as 3 other packages.

A quick look again today to check some more details showed me a small price increase across the board. I can't identify one product shared by every package (which I don't already own) and they increase by different amounts. That's what makes me think there has been another wee tinker with the dynamic pricing. But there may be another reason.      

Anyhow I'm grateful for any insight you may be able to give. 

Thanks, 

Colin. 

Posts 1418
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 6:00 PM

Colin:

In other words the value of our present Logos library has decreased (has been made to decrease) by this new way of calculating dynamic pricing. 

I certainly understand your concerns, and appreciate the fact that they are people with sharp eagle eyes such as yourself that watch out for things like this. It's always good to know when prices are going up, even if purchase is not planned. However, I don't necessarily agree that the value of our library has decreased. It could simply be that the overall value of the entire package has increased, thus decreasing the percentage of savings that our present library would contribute to a new base package.

If anything, I think that the overall base package increase means that our investment is now worth more than it was when we purchased it. For instance, if I were to go to, for example, one of the Facebook Pages where Logos users buy and sell their licenses, I can now ask a little more for my base package or collection then I could before, should I decide to sell. So I don't think there's really anything to worry about.

Also, as others have said, we really don't know that it is a Faithlife-driven increase. I think more often than not that price increases result from publisher increases. If the publisher raised individual resource prices, Logos would really not have another option other than to raise the price of the base package. 

In either vein, Im ok with an occasional increase. I know the FL guys have to eat too, and they all want raises every now and again, just as we do. And given that Logos is constantly adding new functionality to their product (other than the web app, which is stalled!! UGH!!), the increases help fund that and ensure they new functionalities are deployed regularly and seamlessly (in most cases). So I don't mind a SMALL increase every so often to ensure Logos can meet demand, remain profitable, and continue to provide me a solid ROI on my investment. 

Just my humble two sense. 

Please forgive typos. Written with speech to text. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 31
-- | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2016 2:01 PM

I noticed price increases on several items in my shopping cart from last weekend.  It seems that dynamic pricing is becoming less rewarding for those who own previously purchased resources within a bundle.  Historically, looking at my past purchases, pricing tends to increase 6-8% each year.

Also, you really have to look at every iteration of an item in various bundles in order to find the best price.  Last week, I wanted to acquire two items that completed one bundle, and the price of buying the rest of the collection was $158.58.  However, if I bought one of the two items individually and the other as a part of another bundle (it was the sole missing element), my total came to $117ish.  That's a $41 difference for thin air.

Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 5:27 AM

I'm quite new to Logos base packages and perhaps I'm reacting against something which has been standard practice for a long time. However, I was again surprised to find another increase across the board for all of my base package upgrades. That means there have been 2 increases in about 2 weeks!! (I noticed the last one on 16th March). This increase, while still relatively small, is on a bigger scale than the last one. For example, the package which went up by 20 cents last time has now gone up a further 52 cents. The one which went up by 4 cents has gone up a further 10 cents.

I am very conscious (as others mentioned above) that these increases are 'small,' and 'rather minor,' but 2 such changes in the space of 2 weeks seems to be an unsettling trend to me. 

Glenn Airoldi mentioned in his initial post about dynamic price calculations and SRP price changes that prices have gone down as well as up. I'm not seeing this in any of the base packages I want to purchase. 

This kind of change affects the loyal customer base represented on these forums and I hope it won't continue to happen on a more than monthly basis. 

Colin. 

Posts 537
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 6:12 AM

Thanks for noticing and sharing.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 6:17 AM
Colin:
I am very conscious (as others mentioned above) that these increases are 'small,' and 'rather minor,' but 2 such changes in the space of 2 weeks seems to be an unsettling trend to me.
I have no idea what is going on. Could it be that a resource in the package was on sale individually? If so, the price of the package would presumably be a little cheaper for the duration of the sale. Or not. I don't know.

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 6:48 AM

alabama24:
Could it be that a resource in the package was on sale individually?

Thanks for commenting and trying to understand this with me. But this affects all 16 package upgrades I have been watching! They are reformed, standard, anglican, baptist and lutheran. So there are many resources involved, not just 1.

Also, as far as I know, an individual resource being on sale does not lower the price of a collection. That's why many people were complaining about dynamic pricing recently. Things on sale during March madness were cheaper to buy individually than in a collection. So whatever way the dynamic pricing calculations work, they do not take into account sale prices of individual resources in the collection.

If individual prices go up, the dynamic price of the collection goes up. If individual prices go down, the dynamic price does not go down. 

In those cases where the web page has not been updated to include the new to you and cost if bought individually parts, you actually have to work it out manually in order to make sure you're getting the best deal. 

Colin. 

Posts 278
LogosEmployee
Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 3:19 PM

There are any number of scenarios that could have resulted in what's being described here.

If a resource included in all the base packages, that was already owned by the customer, had it's SRP lowered by the publisher, it would contribute less to the overall value of the collection and thereby raise the Dynamic Price. (the opposite scenario is also true)

If a resource was included in all the base packages had been owned previously by the customer, and was returned, it would have the same effect. (the opposite scenario is also true)

If a number of un-owned resources across the base packages had an SRP increase, it would have the same effect. (the opposite scenario is also true)

If we reduced the value of a software component of a base packages without touching the prices of the library resources, it would have this same effect for existing base package customers.  (the opposite scenario is also true)

Re: your observation that "If individual prices go up, the dynamic price of the collection goes up.  If individual prices go down, the dynamic price does not go down."  - This is NOT true.  

If the individual SRP of a product within a collection changes goes up, the Dynamic Price of the collection goes down for customers who own the individual product but it goes up for customers who do not own the individual product.  (the opposite scenario is also true)

Remember, it's "Dynamic" pricing Wink. . .

Posts 259
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 5:09 PM

Glenn Airoldi:

There are any number of scenarios that could have resulted in what's being described here.

If a resource included in all the base packages, that was already owned by the customer, had it's SRP lowered by the publisher, it would contribute less to the overall value of the collection and thereby raise the Dynamic Price. (the opposite scenario is also true)

If a resource was included in all the base packages had been owned previously by the customer, and was returned, it would have the same effect. (the opposite scenario is also true)

If a number of un-owned resources across the base packages had an SRP increase, it would have the same effect. (the opposite scenario is also true)

If we reduced the value of a software component of a base packages without touching the prices of the library resources, it would have this same effect for existing base package customers.  (the opposite scenario is also true)

Re: your observation that "If individual prices go up, the dynamic price of the collection goes up.  If individual prices go down, the dynamic price does not go down."  - This is NOT true.  

If the individual SRP of a product within a collection changes goes up, the Dynamic Price of the collection goes down for customers who own the individual product but it goes up for customers who do not own the individual product.  (the opposite scenario is also true)

Remember, it's "Dynamic" pricing Wink. . .

Glenn:  Consider posting these examples in an explanation area related to Dynamic Pricing.  That way, people can see it. This is tricky, detailed stuff.  Posted, we can read + reread it.  This will save you some keystrokes!!

Posts 249
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 7 2016 1:05 PM

Thanks Glenn for taking the time to post such a detailed explanation. Sorry to revive this thread again but I have a couple of comments on your explanation in relation to this case, and I have now figured out why my prices have gone up. I'm hoping you'll be able to make sure it gets fixed.

In this case I can say for sure that I didn't return anything.

Your mention of something happening across the base packages is surely unlikely because my price increases begin in Anglican Bronze which does not include a resource common to the other bunch of base packages I have been tracking with a view to buying when I can afford them. (It does have a common software component though - see below). 

My observation about individual prices going down and base package prices staying the same was related not to SRP but to sale prices. I think in that scenario my observation is true.

Finally, I'm convinced that my price increase is because of the error in the system with the pericopes dataset noted here

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/124710/814074.aspx#814074 

It costs $5.99, is found in the Anglican Bronze and all of the other packages.

P & C starter, the price of which I have not been tracking so assiduously, does not have the dataset and has remained the same price.

Will this problem be fixed soon?

thanks,

Colin.       

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