Ipad Pro for Logos mobile App instead of Surface Pro 4 and full Logos

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Posts 89
Duncan Campbell | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Mar 27 2016 12:00 PM

Hi,

I currently have a well specced Macbook Pro that I use for my main Logos 6 use, sermon prep etc. Before Christmas I bought a Surface Pro 4, planning to use that for Logos 6 at 'the couch' or bible study group, use outside the house etc.

I have found the Surface Pro to be quite prone to hanging and crashing generally, and find myself struggling with the Logos interface on the touch screen, even with the pen. In fact I originally bought  a SP3, in December, which was changed under warranty within a week or so, and then this replacement also developed a fault, at which point I paid extra to change it for the Surface Pro 4.

Despite these changes I have found the SP4 less than reliable, and even when it is running well, I find myself not using Logôs 6 on the Surface, but only on the Macbook, even to the extent of emulating Android on the SP4 in order to use the app instead of full Logôs, on the couch for reading.

I am considering selling my Surface Pro 4 to finance an Ipad Pro 12.9", which I am thinking I could use at bible study group, for reading and taking notes, and the Macbook for heavy use.

I am essentially looking for some advice on my idea; of getting the Ipad Pro for more casual use, and what features I would miss. Bearing in mind tat I also have the Macbook Pro for heavy use. 
I also would not trust the SP4 to preach from, but could sit the Ipad Pro on the lectern with my notes. I appreciate any input from anyone who has preached from an Ipad Pro..

I appreciate any guidance on the pros and cons of this idea.

Blessings

Duncan

Posts 948
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 12:46 PM

Duncan,

You have a couple of threads out on the forums.  One related to iPad Data usage, and this one, comparing the merits of the Surface Pro and iPad.

The only additional information I would offer is that the Surface Pro is running a different version of Logos/Verbum than the iPad.   The former is using the full, desktop OS version of Logos/Verbum.  The iPad is running the mobile, iOS version of Logos/Verbum.

They are different ...

If you are unhappy with the SP4, then take it back.

Steve

Posts 89
Duncan Campbell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 12:56 PM

Thanks for the reply Steve.

I do have 2 threads out there, as I am trying to decide whether I need a cellular or wi-fi only Ipad Pro, if that is the way I decide to jump.

I suppose I was just looking for a little advice about how well the Logos App works on Ipad Pro, and about the relative merits of using the app for reading and lighter Logos tasks v using full Logos on the Surface Pro for lighter tasks, bearing in mind that the Macbook Pro is there to use full Logos.

I appreciate your reply.

Have a blessed Easter.

Duncan

Posts 948
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 1:10 PM

Duncan,

It's hard to advise ... not knowing what cellular service you have and arrangements ...

In my case, I have x GB data on my iPhone and for the very little time that I need to access cellular data I tether to the iPhone and don't worry.  Minor data used.  <10's MB

If you have tethering charges or smaller data plans that may be more of a concern.

That said, the iOS application is different than the Windows/OSX version.  SP4 is running Windows, iPad is running iOS.

Posts 27681
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 1:33 PM

There are two separate issues: what device should you buy and how does the mobile app function. As to the second question, I love it, but I also understand its function and limitations. The mobile app is great for reading and highlighting. Nearly all of my Logos reading is done that way. You should be aware that it is NOT recommend that you download large parts of your library. Also be aware that most functions which are available outside of what I described are online only... You can search a single download book, but library searches, guides, etc. are all online only. 

What device to buy? If your goal is reading, i would suggest the smaller pro (or air 2). Personally, I think the Air 2 is the best size for reading/studying/taking brief notes. The only thing superior would be a kindle paperwhite for reading ONLY. I wouldn't buy the full sized pro for what you described, but that's me. If you have other needs, you would need to weigh them and decide. I would recommend the full sized one for those who will preach from it and want to run two apps side by side in landscape mode  

The mobile apps haven't been optimized for the pro, so there isn't any advantages in that regard. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 1:59 PM

Nothing has been released information wise but fully offline support is one of the highest requested features and would expect to possible see these eventual. I do not expect we will ever see feature parity with the Desktop. For me the current versions of the mobile apps are less than ideal but workable for me. My older iPad (3rd gen) is a bit pocky but when frustrated last night with my iPad i switched momentarily to my iPhone and discovered slightly better performance so the age of my Pad may be affecting it (although I will say Faithlife apps are the only ones giving me sluggish results). I have an iPad Pro 9.7" on order and hope to see improvements on my Verbum/Logos apps for iPad usage. One major complaint I have is occasionally when I have a passage guide up and have opened a commentary i know I want to get to a certain section sometimes there is scrolling lag (guessing only a certain amount is loading and it is being cantankerous about letting me get to where I want to be).

-dan

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 3:04 PM

Duncan Campbell:

I am considering selling my Surface Pro 4 to finance an Ipad Pro 12.9", which I am thinking I could use at bible study group, for reading and taking notes, and the Macbook for heavy use.

I appreciate any guidance on the pros and cons of this idea.

I think the IPP would work well for this intended use case, and while I can't speak to your desire to preach from the IPP, others have and liked it.

Having owned Surface Pros, the issue you've discovered is that the Logos desktop program is frustrating to use on a touch-enabled or stylus-enabled device. The IPP, being touch-centric only in Logos, will be a better experience. The negative is that interestingly I find myself using the Bible! app in landscape mode more and more and with the Apple Smart Keyboard attached. I wish that Faithlife would enable some basic keyboard shortcuts that many other apps have enabled for the IPP. If you get a IPP, please go over to the Logos User Voice site and vote for the suggestion to add basic keyboard navigation into the iOS app.

If you plan to use the IPP as a tablet at Bible study, it could be great. Just open the Bible! app and split-screen multitask with OneNote, Notability, or GoodNotes to review or take notes (using the Apple Pencil) with the Bible! app open on the other side of the screen.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 5:18 PM

alabama24:
You can search a single download book, but library searches, guides, etc. are all online only. 

Actually, you can search through all downloaded library resources while offline and not just a single downloaded book.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 5:25 PM

I have no problems running Logos 6 on the SP3.  How much you want for that SP4? 

I presume it is the model with the i7 or at least i5 processor, and at least 8 GB RAM?

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 5:47 PM

my Surface 4 pro with Logos 6 runs great. Its fast with no issues and I have fairly big library 7k+ books. You might got defected item.

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 89
Duncan Campbell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2016 10:50 PM

Michael, it is the i5 model with 8gb ram and 256 hdd.

To be fair, Logos itself does run well, my main issue Logos wise is using it on the SP4 with touch, even with the pen, I find it less than ideal. Using Logôs with the keyboard cover attached and trackpad is fine, but then I am using it as a laptop, and I have an i7 Macbook Pro for that type of usage that runs Logos even better.

What I am missing is an effective way to read my Logos ,library, do simple searches, take some notes, when sat on the couch, at bible study group, or at a conference,where laptop style use isn't practical.

The SP 4 tends to hang and crash when used for other basic things such as the internet, in different browsers, email etc. I also feel that because of these issues I couldn't trust it as a device to have on the lectern with my notes when preachîng. I know many friends who preach from an ipad, not necessarily the pro, week in, week out, without issue.

I am thinking that the IPP would allow me to have the Logos app open alongside say OneNote, and take notes.I would of course use the Macbook Pro for any heavy usage such as sermon prep etc. I suppose what I am saying is that selling the SP4 and getting an IPP would better cover me for different use scenarios.

Here in Scotland, we have a chain of stores that buy and sell used electronics, and they will sell me a used IPP with 12 months warranty for less than the amount of store credit I would get for the SP4 wi-fi, and the same store credit  as the price of the cellular IPP.

If I decide to jump towards the IPP, I also appreciate any advce on whether to get te cellular or wi-fi version. I can tether to my iphone, and have 12gb of tethering available each month, or could probably afford a 2gb a month sim plan to put in a cellular IPP.

Thanks for any advice.

Duncan

Posts 948
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2016 5:24 AM

Duncan Campbell:

What I am missing is an effective way to read my Logos ,library, do simple searches, take some notes, when sat on the couch, at bible study group, or at a conference,where laptop style use isn't practical.

I think you would be very happy with the iPad as Alabama and others have mentioned.  With the larger screen of the original Pro combined with the split-screen capability in the current iOS, you are able to read and take notes in separate apps if you want. 

Keep in mind that while the iPad Pro is as wide as the Air 2 (not Mini size) is tall, it is not as tall as 2 iPad Air's side by side (speaking of screen size here).  In other words, when you are in split screen it's not like having 2 iPad Air's next to each other.

I'm sure there will be some other opinions, but I personally bought my iPad and my wife's iPad Pro without cellular ... wifi only.  We both have iPhone's with no separate fee/charge from the carrier to tether a device to it.  When we need internet access from the iPad and are not in a wifi hotspot, we just tether to our phone.  Saves the extra cost ($130) on the iPad.

my 2 cents ...

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2016 6:49 AM

Duncan Campbell:

Michael, it is the i5 model with 8gb ram and 256 hdd.

To be fair, Logos itself does run well, my main issue Logos wise is using it on the SP4 with touch, even with the pen, I find it less than ideal. Using Logôs with the keyboard cover attached and trackpad is fine, but then I am using it as a laptop, and I have an i7 Macbook Pro for that type of usage that runs Logos even better.

Also, I haven't used the SP4, so I really do not know how it runs.  But I have no such problems with my SP3.  It is the I7, with 8 GB Ram and 512 GB SSD.

What I am missing is an effective way to read my Logos ,library, do simple searches, take some notes, when sat on the couch, at bible study group, or at a conference,where laptop style use isn't practical.

The SP 4 tends to hang and crash when used for other basic things such as the internet, in different browsers, email etc. I also feel that because of these issues I couldn't trust it as a device to have on the lectern with my notes when preachîng. I know many friends who preach from an ipad, not necessarily the pro, week in, week out, without issue.

I am thinking that the IPP would allow me to have the Logos app open alongside say OneNote, and take notes.I would of course use the Macbook Pro for any heavy usage such as sermon prep etc. I suppose what I am saying is that selling the SP4 and getting an IPP would better cover me for different use scenarios.

Here in Scotland, we have a chain of stores that buy and sell used electronics, and they will sell me a used IPP with 12 months warranty for less than the amount of store credit I would get for the SP4 wi-fi, and the same store credit  as the price of the cellular IPP.

If I decide to jump towards the IPP, I also appreciate any advce on whether to get te cellular or wi-fi version. I can tether to my iphone, and have 12gb of tethering available each month, or could probably afford a 2gb a month sim plan to put in a cellular IPP.

Thanks for any advice.

Duncan

Of course, everyone is different, and each of us has to find the right machine for himself / herself.  The touch is a big part of what I love about my Surface pro.  I agree Logos could be more touch friendly, but even as it is, Logos on my Surface pro is the best Logos experience I have had. I hate the rare occasions I have to run Logos without a touch screen.  I don't use the pen to run it.   But that is why some like different flavors of ice cream. 

No doubt the Mac gives a great Logos experience, as well.  Logos will surely keep improving and remaking itself better for us all.

Blessings.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 35
Jeff | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2016 12:19 PM

You may want to try a free app called touchmousepointer. Essentially, it makes your entire screen a virtual touchpad with a mouse cursor. You can turn it off and on with a tap of the taskbar. Another forum poster has mentioned this in the past (I can't recall his name but credit goes to him for discovering it). I use it on a small Windows tablet and it has made the desktop Logos app extremely usable for me on a tablet. It's a Win32 app but you install it from the Windows app store for some reason so search for it there. I would play around with this before deciding to move to the iPad as it may solve your problem without the sacrifice of functionality.

Posts 2278
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 29 2016 2:56 AM

I've been using the large iPadPro (with the Apple Smart Keyboard and Apple Pencil) since December 2015. I bought it as a companion to my iMac, but it has served as a replacement for my MacBook Air. I have been using it for work (moderate Microsoft Word and OneNote use, with some basic Excel and PowerPoint use). I have also been using it for a writing project (45,000 words down, 26,000 to go!).

It is a great device, the keyboard and additional real estate (so that splitscreen working) has transformed my use. I am, for the first time, able to get serious work done. As to whether the Pro will be sufficient for your needs (using Logos) is very much a personal question (as indicated by Alabama, above).

I have found that I have been able to plan my last few sermons using, predominately, the iPad Pro. It has, however, been necessary to hop back onto my desktop in order to run a couple of more complex searches, to set up Proclaim and to fix an issue with some notes (it is not possible to add linkage via the app, which does limit my personal use). Most, if not all, of my casual and even serious Logos reading is now done via the iPad Pro.

In terms of your second question (cellular or WiFi only). For the first time ever (with an iPad), I went for WiFi only. I have an iPhone 6s plus and my carrier allows data tethering. I regularly use my Pro out and about and tethered to my iPhone. I have not at all been disappointed with the performance and routinely stream music (hi def via Tidal), websurf and sync documents. On occasion, while working away, I have streamed movies via iTunes and Netflix. I have had no issues. Whether this is practicable for you will depend on your mobile contract and network coverage.

Blessings

Posts 8
Scott Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 30 2016 2:04 AM

My experience has mirrored Andy's (though I use ByWord and/or Evernote instead of Word/OneNote, just a personal preference).  I still do drop back into MBP mode out of habit, and some things, but I've found I am reaching for the iPP much more than waking up my MBP, even though it is on the same desk.

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