No longer possible to send books to Kindle?

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This post has 66 Replies | 9 Followers

Posts 8
SGeiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 5:38 PM

DAL:

LOL whining!

And your point is? You even seem to be gloating on other people's misery. If FL is to be considered as a serious software company with thoughtful engineers and tactful product managers at hand, they would do everything in their capability to provide an alternative (let's keep in mind, that this was a basic feature of L6).

Seriously, they have known about this problem internally since quite a while. Why not then plan the retirement of this specific functionality of sending the documents over the Amazon cloud while internally prepare for an alternative solution (download Mobi files, use your own mail account for sending out the documents, or what have you not) and instead of announcing a removal of the functionality in the next software release, roll out the new feature by then.

For me, THIS would have been a good showcase of proficient case- / incident management...

Posts 6321
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 6:30 PM

SGeiser:

DAL:

LOL whining!

And your point is? 

You just proved my point...LOL TGIF! Enjoy your weeked and don't let it get ruined by things nobody can really controll 😁👍

Posts 30
178294z | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 6:34 PM

In my experience, Logos has almost always been more than accommodating and communicative over the years. When I've had an issue they've been professional and gracious in making the situation right. This said, I would like to see another export option available for my resources. The Kindle export feature was a BIG reason I went all in w/ electronic resources a few years ago. We need an "insurance policy" that if something happens to Faithlife we'll still be able to utilize our resources via an export function. Thankfully, Logos still has a GREAT print feature - one I'm very impressed by. I still would like an export kindle/etc. option. I know this is Amazon's issue BTW; From a business side they are not consolidating users around their platform with this call! I had hoped the market was beginning to have some connectivity but it is still fragmented. Ugh.

Posts 72
John Crupper | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 7:45 PM

After getting the "it's ending now" email yesterday, the following this evening:

We’re sorry we didn’t notify you in advance about the send-to-Kindle feature retiring. We’re going to keep the feature and the service live for two more weeks. When the software update 6.11 ships on Monday, April 18, the feature will be disabled.

You may continue to use it for the next two weeks, and books you send to Kindle will continue to work even after April 18. Due to the high volume of requests, it may take longer than normal for your books to process.

Again, we’re sorry for the late notice—and that we have to retire a feature many of you really enjoy.

Posts 450
J. Remington Bowling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 9:07 PM

I'm a bit confused as to why people are confidently assuming this is Amazon's fault and not FaithLife's. Maybe I'm missing something, but where has it been established that the issue is with Amazon and not with FaithLife and it's deals with publishers?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 9:19 PM

J. Remington Bowling:
Maybe I'm missing something, but where has it been established that the issue is with Amazon and not with FaithLife and it's deals with publishers?

Where ... any of the other companies facing the same issue, the newspaper articles announcing the Amazon policies changes ... several links were provide in other threads which I am too lazy to look up again but http://shop.oreilly.com/category/customer-service/kindle.do is a sample or http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/05/29/amazon-now-blocking-publishers-but-not-retailers-from-emailing-ebooks-to-your-kindle/

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8
SGeiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 10:33 PM

MJ. Smith:

J. Remington Bowling:
Maybe I'm missing something, but where has it been established that the issue is with Amazon and not with FaithLife and it's deals with publishers?

Where ... any of the other companies facing the same issue, the newspaper articles announcing the Amazon policies changes ... several links were provide in other threads which I am too lazy to look up again but http://shop.oreilly.com/category/customer-service/kindle.do is a sample or http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/05/29/amazon-now-blocking-publishers-but-not-retailers-from-emailing-ebooks-to-your-kindle/

from the referenced oreilly site:

There are two other ways to read ebooks purchased through oreilly.com on your Kindle:

1. Download the .mobi file to your computer, plug your Kindle into your computer, and drag the .mobi file to the Kindle folder.

2. Download Amazon's Send to Kindle App and follow the instructions.

With that you're proving the point, which some here are trying to establish, namely that FL could have come up with- or at least promised the future implementation of such an option, to allow the export of books in the .mobi (or even epub) format.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 10:43 PM

SGeiser:
namely that FL could have come up with- or at least promised the future implementation of such an option, to allow the export of books in the .mobi (or even epub) format

Faithlife has given us options ... see Mark Barnes' video. Are you suggesting that Faithlife should flout the intent of Amazon and force Amazon to be even more strict?  And do you know what formats Faithlife has legal rights to create? We have enough trouble with Faithlife overpromising and under delivering I don't want to encourage that. ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8
SGeiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2016 11:50 PM

MJ. Smith:

Are you suggesting that Faithlife should flout the intent of Amazon and force Amazon to be even more strict?  And do you know what formats Faithlife has legal rights to create?

I have no reason to believe, that it would be illegal to send *.mobi documents from my own mail account to my kindle reader. That's what it was designed for by Amazan and what they are offering with their "send-to-kindle" software. What Amazon is trying to prevent is, that other "publishers" are piggybacking on their own plattform.

In any case, since I do NOT know, what formats FL is allowed to distribute, it would be interesting to hear a word from them about their future plans, and that's what I was trying to suggest with my critique: the ball is now in FL's corner...

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 12:00 AM

Have you read the official posts in this thread?

Retiring the Send-to-Kindle Feature on 3/31

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 22
Kernel Sanders | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 4:43 AM

SGeiser:

With that you're proving the point, which some here are trying to establish, namely that FL could have come up with- or at least promised the future implementation of such an option, to allow the export of books in the .mobi (or even epub) format.

--> This!!!

@MJ. Smith: The option to export books manually via the export function is just terrible.

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 6:49 AM

J. Remington Bowling:

I'm a bit confused as to why people are confidently assuming this is Amazon's fault and not FaithLife's. Maybe I'm missing something, but where has it been established that the issue is with Amazon and not with FaithLife and it's deals with publishers?

I wrote this on this forum back in Oct 2014:

"You may not use the Service to send infringing, unauthorized, or otherwise illegal content."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201124320

Would sending an entire book be considered "infringing content" by Amazon?

I am looking at it from Amazon's perspective. Does Amazon know about this and approve?

My point is Amazon would have no idea what contracts have been negotiated with Logos. They may see it as a competitor using their servers to store books that weren't bought from Amazon. Or a user storing "infringing works" on their servers. I would not want Amazon to shut down my account because of this.

From their Terms and Conditions:

"We may discontinue the Service or your participation in the Service at any time in our sole discretion. The permission we grant you to use the Service automatically terminates if you do not comply with these Terms."

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 7:31 AM

Lysander Mayr:
The option to export books manually via the export function is just terrible.

When you purchase a resource from Logos, you are actually purchasing a license. This is true of ALL electronic media (i.e. Kindle, iTunes, etc.). As part of that agreement, FL is responsible for taking appropriate measures to ensure unauthorized usage does not occur. FL is very generous to work hard so that as many of your resources are available on as many devices as possible. Even still, some publishers and copyright holders put restrictions on your licenses. For example: Some resources aren't available within the mobile apps. Others are available on mobile, but not on biblia.com (or the LN web app). When these restrictions are in place, it is because the copyright holder won't allow FL to do so. 

The implementation of "send to kindle" did provide some safeguards... although I don't know how copyright holders would view them. The biggest safeguard was that the "set kindle address" function only worked one time for the end user. If the user could keep switching email addresses, what would stop someone from buying a book and sending a copy to all of his friends? Worse, the user could sell books to others! 

You asked about exporting to .mobi... what would prevent users from passing copies around or selling them? 

I was surprised that FL even made this feature in the first place... although I was very glad for it and am very disappointed that it's ending. Users frequently asked if "send to kindle" status could be added to the product page... but that was never really an option. FL has the reputation of over promising at times, but they were certainly conservative about this feature. There were no advertisements (that I am aware of) featuring "send to kindle." 

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Posts 22
Kernel Sanders | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 7:41 AM

Yes, you buy the license. But you end up having the files anyway. I can just connect my Kindle to my PC right now, copy all the files from my Kindle to the PC, convert them to whatever format I want via Calibre and send them to all my friends anyway. So the files are at the users already with the Send-to-Kindle feature. The possibility to download the epub/mobi file would not change anything...

Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 7:47 AM

DAL:
If amazon decided to cancel, then there's nothing FL can do about it.

But FL was able to postpone it due to user response, so it's not true that FL can do nothing. If Amazon decided to cancel it at the end of March, then how come FL had the leeway to keep send-to-kindle another couple weeks? Why can't they postpone it even longer?

Posts 64
Eric Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 7:57 AM

Intellectual property licensing is a very complex space wrought with landmines.  There may have been a little wiggle room on the cutoff date but I believe FL is doing the best that they can do with both the technological and legal constraints they have been presented with.  It can be argued that they created this feature on unstable techno/legal platform, but I do believe they wouldn't revoke it without some very good reasons.  I am sad as everyone else especially since the Kindle platform was the only way that my legally blind wife can read the material (font sizes are bigger on Kindle).  Also, this fragmentation from a DRM perspective is extremely frustrating to the consumer especially when most of the technologies are easily bypassed.  I hope that FL will be able to develop a new solution that allows us to read our resources on e-ink devices, but I think that this hope is in vain for the short term.

Baen and Pragmatic are also facing issues with the "send-to-kindle" feature and have viable workarounds (download and email it yourself), but as publishers they, at least, have the flexibility to decide on when/where/how their published works are copied.  FL, hopefully, will decide to this with the works they own (Lexham) and hopefully demonstrate to the publishers that there is a net win to not over-restricting the use of your published works.

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 8:02 AM

This may provide a clue as to what is happening behind the scenes:

http://the-digital-reader.com/2016/02/07/no-send-to-kindle-wont-help-vanquish-amazon/

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 6321
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 10:50 AM

elnwood:

DAL:
If amazon decided to cancel, then there's nothing FL can do about it.

But FL was able to postpone it due to user response, so it's not true that FL can do nothing. If Amazon decided to cancel it at the end of March, then how come FL had the leeway to keep send-to-kindle another couple weeks? Why can't they postpone it even longer?

Because is part of the secret contract you and I are not allowed to see 😂

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 11:54 AM

elnwood:
then how come FL had the leeway to keep send-to-kindle another couple weeks?

Because when companies make contractual changes such as these there is usually a transition period. We do not know what the "drop dead" date is for Faithlife.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 787
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 2 2016 12:52 PM

No skin off of my back as I never used the feature to begin with. If you want to read your FL books on a tablet then buy a Surface Pro,a 2 in 1 computer or some tablet that can handle FL books.

I see this as an Amazon issue not a FL issue. If there is a problem take it up with Amazon not FL.

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