No longer possible to send books to Kindle?

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Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 12:18 AM

MJ. Smith:

elnwood:
then how come FL had the leeway to keep send-to-kindle another couple weeks?

Because when companies make contractual changes such as these there is usually a transition period. We do not know what the "drop dead" date is for Faithlife.

That doesn't make sense. If there was a different "drop dead" date, why did Fathlife choose March 31st initially? Why not choose the drop date itself? Or did they have another reason for cutting us off sooner?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 12:37 AM

elnwood:
That doesn't make sense

Er .. ah ... have you worked in a business that had dependencies on other businesses? In payroll for example, when banks merged we had to do a conversion of all employees accounts that had direct deposit into the bank that was "disappearing". We had a drop dead date where the new bank would not be able to process our direct deposits. We had the payroll before that which was our last possible chance to make the change and handle problems if there were a mass failure. Then we had the target payroll where if there was a problem, no one would even notice. Guess what we scheduled for.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 12:46 AM

MJ. Smith:

elnwood:
That doesn't make sense

Er .. ah ... have you worked in a business that had dependencies on other businesses? In payroll for example, when banks merged we had to do a conversion of all employees accounts that had direct deposit into the bank that was "disappearing". We had a drop dead date where the new bank would not be able to process our direct deposits. We had the payroll before that which was our last possible chance to make the change and handle problems if there were a mass failure. Then we had the target payroll where if there was a problem, no one would even notice. Guess what we scheduled for.

Yes, if you have to direct deposit money, and it fails, you could have a major financial crisis. And this is analogous to allowing Logos customers to download books to Kindle because ... why?

There is no money involved, so there's nothing catastophic that could happen. And a typical "mass failure" for computers is that a server would go down, but if anything, that would actually help the goal of disabling that feature. What sort of "mass failure" are you thinking about that would necessitate Logos disabling send-to-kindle early?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 12:51 AM

elnwood:
Yes, if you have to direct deposit money, and it fails, you could have a major financial crisis. And this is analogous to allowing Logos customers to download books to Kindle because ... why?

Because of exactly what happened ... the email warning users failed to go out. And to insure that the software without the capability is vetted independently of the actual pulling of the plug ... to avoid conflicts with other activities ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 22
Kernel Sanders | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 7:33 AM

FL still has not issued an official statement why the feature will be retired. Up to that point you are just speculating. And just shifting the blame to Amazon does not help at all at this point. FL should really explain whats going on and what they´re gonna do about this situation. 
Imho the best solution would be to, as other users already suggested, offer an option to send the books to your personal email adress as a .mobi/.epub/.azw --> That way you can just forward them to your kindle yourself. As I see it there should be no copyright issues, because you bought the license and other Bookshops do it like that as well. Also I think such an option would not be hard to integrate at all into Logos.

If FL tells us they are gonna do that, I would be happy. Otherwise I´m just sending my whole library (>1´500 books) to my Kindle during the next two weeks and copy the Files on my Computer, just to be sure... 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 8:09 AM

Kernel Sanders:
FL still has not issued an official statement why the feature will be retired.

The official announcement of that step started with the official statement why:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Due to a combination of technical, legal, and permission issues outside our control, we're going to retire the send-to-Kindle feature 

points to consider:

  • there are issues and these are outside of Faithlife's control (i.e. forcing Bob's hand), it's not simply deciding to let something fall away in order to avoid further investment into a feature (as e.g. the abandonment of Handouts - which btw. still work as they did in L4 times for legacy users)
  • these issues involve technical, legal and permission issues. It may be that Faithlife had some internal technical issues on the S2K servers - however, those are not beyond Faithlife's control. On the other hand, Amazon is on record to use technical means (limiting bandwith of what can be sent from one S2K address) to force others into stopping that service.
  • Legal and permission issues could mean pressure from Amazon or from (one or more) publishers or from both sides. I don't think that S2K is illegal per se, or a clear-cut violation of either Kindle usage terms or publisher's contracts. But the area of intellectual property rights has involved into a field of jurisdiction that is not very predictable, but very long-winding and costly. So in many cases the chances for winning a legal battle around that are like rolling the dice - and this means, avoiding going to court over that is most often the only sensible solution.
  • Faithlife doesn't play it the hard way with business partners they want to work with (or even want to work with again in the future). This includes a stance of keeping those issues purposely vague and not accusing such partners of unfair business tactics even if it might be true. In the long run, we want to keep seeing Faithlife apps in the Amazon store, and keep seeing books by all current pulishers in the catalog (even those acting "sonderbar") and even see publishers return to the catalog (like we may see Moody books coming back - this is an example where I believe we would not see this development had Faithlife officially shifted blame to Moody).    

For all those reasons I don't think Faithlife is playing bad here, but don't expect to get more details about things we can't do anything about in the firstplace.

Kernel Sanders:
Imho the best solution would be to, as other users already suggested, offer an option to send the books to your personal email adress as a .mobi/.epub/.azw --> That way you can just forward them to your kindle yourself.

This solution exists, you can just use a S2K printer or print to a file you then bring over to your kindle in the format you like. I think that the current size limit for that is probably a very user-friendly reading of the contracts between Faithlife and the publishers, which I am pretty certain do not allow the proliferation of non-DRM'd mobi files.

Kernel Sanders:
Otherwise I´m just sending my whole library (>1´500 books) to my Kindle during the next two weeks
 

This would probably kill the service for all other users that want to use the grace-period to bring over a couple of books they really want for some good reasons. Not the most Christian way of handling all this...  

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 8
SGeiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 3 2016 10:08 PM

NB.Mick:

Not the most Christian way of handling all this...  

Interesting way to look at this. FL is first and foremost a business, involved with publishing / providing Christian material.

You can turn the "blame card" always on the other side, and accuse them of not being / acting Christian, when some party is not getting their acts together. But then the question might be asked, whether it is more "Christian" to charge more for identical books, when they are provided within the FL ecosystem, instead of, say Amazon.

In the end, if he bought most of his material to be read on a reading device outside of the FL / logos-world, and this option was clearly announced prior to buying into this system (as it was with L6), then why should he not use his right to recover what soon might be lost (and no, please not another lecture on how to use the print/export method and waste useful hours for something, that can be done in seconds...)

 

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