Suggestion: Please Fix Topics and Interesting Words

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 9 2010 11:02 PM

MJ. Smith:
I'll admit to having read, with a wee bit of envy, the "infer" search for intertextual studies in a white paper (implemented in one of your competitors).

The reason we don't have an INFER command at this point is because it seems like the kind of thing better "pre-run" against a massive corpus than run by each user on their own machine. And we have in fact done this; internally we've got scripts that run every NT verse against the whole OT, looking for similar matches. However, for the Bible we don't seem to get much interesting new stuff -- men and women steeped in the text have identified and cataloged many more (and with more discernment) cross references than a "5 of 6" word matching algorithm ever will. I'm not sure how INFER is superior to having the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.

Now that type of cataloging hasn't been done between every text in the system; that's why we did the "fuzzy" search feature in Logos 3. (It's actually cooler than INFER, in my opinion, because it uses a two pass system that finds more potential matches at the word level before filtering for matches at the character level. So it finds things even with spelling and conjugation differences.)

There's a very special "super fuzzy" search embedded in http://bible.logos.com. If you enter a multi-word phrase there, you should see pretty cool fuzzy hits.

In the Logos 4 generation we're interested in doing even smarter identification of "interesting" related phrases, allusions, etc. across different texts. But finding word matches usually isn't enough, especially when using translated texts. So we're digging deep in the academic research in this area, and exploring ideas like "semantic distance," among others.

These queries will be very time and memory intensive, so it's more likely we'll pre-run them and serve up the best results through some Tool UI, or else offer them via a server callback. But the goal is to identify both tight similarities -- the same phrase, even if differently translated, or a Church father's loose quote of the text, or even a modern commentator's quote of a poem or hymn lyric -- as well as loose "thematic" similarities, like two paragraphs in two different commentaries that are making the same point about a passage.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 12:05 AM

Fantastic! My own curiosity is about similarities in early translations - LXX, Vulgate, Peshitta, Old Gothic etc. that are not in the original Greek or Hebrew. Sounds like we'll get there in my lifetime.Geeked

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 5:46 AM

Sean Boisen:
Size definitely represents relative importance of the individual topics or words to this passage. Color, however, is essentially random art, as is orientation.

 

I may have misunderstood what he was saying at the training. He may have meant just the colors when he said it did not have any significance. But I know that more than one person there thought he meant the color and size so you guys at Logos may want to make this clear and make sure he makes it clear too. He does a great job otherwise. And I am using Logos more and more. Can't wait to get my favorite tools in there.

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:35 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Do you really want that kind of data exposed here in Passage Guide? (Which we intend to be higher level than the drill-down in the Bible Word Study report.)

Hi Bob, and I am sorry for not responding to your post sooner.  I have been extremely busy because of Lent.

Again, anything Logos produces is going to carry weight, and it will lead a user in one direction or another.  There is no way around it.  When the information is not clear, people ask question, and this is why you received the questions like,

Bob Pritchett:
 "Why is this word on the list?" or "How could you think that word x was more important than word y in this passage?"

I do believe MJ. is correct when she said, 

MJ. Smith:
"The complaints also seem to circle around a misunderstanding of what is being conveyed. Better documentation on the feature might also quiet some complaints."

I think a link under the Wordle that will open up another window that explains what the user is seeing would be very helpful.

To answer your question, yes I would.  This is because I enjoy doing word studies.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 5 2010 12:31 PM

Bob Pritchett:
However, for the Bible we don't seem to get much interesting new stuff -- men and women steeped in the text have identified and cataloged many more (and with more discernment) cross references than a "5 of 6" word matching algorithm ever will.

The place that I would actual want to use the infer-style/fuzzy-style search is not Bible against Bible but Prayer Book against Bible.For example, of the 4 Jewish siddur that I have, only one makes any effort to identify short quotations or near-quotations of Biblical text.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Michael F Storz | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 11 2010 9:52 AM

I would appreciate that too!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 11 2010 12:16 PM

Since this topic has been resurrected, I'd like to state that my thoughts on this topic are changing. We are getting more questions on the forums about text analytics. The real question then becomes - do the users want Logos to do the analytics and present the data to the user or does the user wish to do their one analytics. I would suggest that Logos resources are sufficiently biased to the "North American Protestant canon" and that early translations are so sparsely represented, that end user analytics are necessary for a significant group of users. However, it is also true that the largest base of users haven't the background or interest to do the work themselves and Logos would fill a need by providing some "predigested" materials.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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