Glorious versus Glory in translations double click

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 27 2016 5:40 PM

Not sure where to put this so it's in general. I found this out quite by accident, but in my study bible layout I have the ESV, FSB, and LBD. At Eph 1:6 the word glorious which is doxa in the Greek and glory in most translations, in the ESV and HSCB it is glorious. When I double click the word glorious expecting the LBD to open to the headword Glory it opens to the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology to the headword Boasting which is quite wrong. Does this happen to anyone else?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2016 6:10 PM

I am not a "word study" expert. I honestly don't know how this feature works. At first glance, it is coming from the surface text when you double click, not from the lemma. The words "glory" and "boast" do have overlapping semantical range. Consider:

He gloried in his victory. He boasted of his win. 

I assume this explains what you are seeing, but I am not positive.

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2016 6:19 PM

The two Greek words behind the English translation are completely different for glory and boast. Double clicking a word in an English translation should at least default to the headword which in this case is Glory. To me, no matter what translation I use when I double click a word it should be handled the same in all translations. In every translation where the word is translated glory it opens the LBD to the topic Glory. Not in the case where they use glorious. That just doesn't seem right to me.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2016 11:48 PM

I get the same thing - but its nothing to do with translations but to do with the Logos Controlled Vocabulary (I think).

It looks as though the word "glorious" is tagged to match the word "boast" which is why you are getting the results you describe.

You can verify this by entering the command "lookup glorious" in the command bar which will open your highest prioritised dictionary containing the headword "boast" to that point.

This looks like an issue with LCV tagging but someone from Faithlife would need to confirm.

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 5:26 AM

That makes sense Graham, thanks. I will pursue this from another angle.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 8:47 AM

Matt Hamrick:

Not sure where to put this so it's in general. I found this out quite by accident, but in my study bible layout I have the ESV, FSB, and LBD. At Eph 1:6 the word glorious which is doxa in the Greek and glory in most translations, in the ESV and HSCB it is glorious. When I double click the word glorious expecting the LBD to open to the headword Glory it opens to the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology to the headword Boasting which is quite wrong. Does this happen to anyone else?

Graham's analysis looks correct to me: there's a faulty connection between the words "glorious" and "boast" that causes this. I'll file a bug report.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 8:59 AM

Thanks Sean

Appreciated, Graham

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 12:15 PM

Thanks Sean, hopefully you all find the issue.

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C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 2:14 PM

Matt Hamrick:
The two Greek words behind the English translation are completely different for glory and boast. Double clicking a word in an English translation should at least default to the headword which in this case is Glory. To me, no matter what translation I use when I double click a word it should be handled the same in all translations.

Look what I found. You may be be on to something. Did they fix the misstep?

In earliest Greek literature doxa meant:

  • "hope" or "expectation."

Later it developed a subjective meaning:

  • "notion," "opinion," "judgment," "conjecture,"
    • as opposed to "truth" and "knowledge."

 

The philosophers used doxa as

  • "opinion," "axiom," and "maxim," and
  • also for "illusion," as

 

The Hindus used

  • maya.

 

But the main meaning in classical Greek was objective

  • "reputation," "honor," "fame," et cetera.

 

In the LXX doxa in the objective sense is applied to both God and man.

The distinctively Biblical usage first appears in connection with God's awe-inspiring manifestations to the Israelites.

Of 25 Hebrew and Aramaic words translated in the LXX by doxa, the word kabod is the bridge from classical to Biblical meanings.

 

In using doxa for kabod the LXX translators gave it the meanings of kabod—"brightness," "splendor," "majesty," "magnificence," et cetera.

Kabo'd and doxa mean "the very character or noblest part of man," and when applied to God, His character and attributes.

 

In the New Testament the objective meanings

  • "honor" and "reputation" continue,
  • as well as the Shekinah-type of dazzling appearance.
  • There is even more emphasis upon the ideas of "character" and "attributes in action or in manifestation," with "recognition" of these.

 

Doxa reaches its highest point in connection with the economy of the plan of salvation.

  • God is light, love, and life;
  • it is a manifestation of His doxa to impart these to men.

In return, men have a responsibility

  • to live so that they bring doxa to God—"honor," "recognition of His character and attributes"—
  • and guard His "reputation."

 

Usages of Doxa in the New Testament

 

The word doxa is found 167 times in the New Testament.

  • Twice it is translated by the KJV as "dignity"
  • Six times "honour"
  • Four times "praise"
  • once "worship"
  • six times "glorious" when used in the genitive case,
  • once "glorious" when it is in the genitive case with the preposition dia, and
  • three times "glorious" when it is used with the preposition en.
  • The rest of the instances, 144, have the translation "glory."

 

  • In addition, the word "glory," appears in the KJV in the conclusion of the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:13, but this conclusion is not found in the best manuscripts.

 

  • About one fourth of the occurrences of the word are in the Gospels, and

 

  • About one half of them are in Paul's writings.

 

In addition, cognate words are used many times.

 

The verb doxazo is translated 

  • "glorify" fifty-four times
  • "honour" three times
  • "magnify" once.

 

In its passive form it is used three times, meaning

 

  • "be made glorious" or "have glory."

 

Its participial form is used once in 1 Peter 1:8 and is translated "full of glory."

 

The compound verb

  • Sundoxazei appears once, in Romans 8:17, and is translated "be also glorified together."

The adjective endoxos appears four times, being translated with

 

Further study will show that “doxa” relates to the Godhead-Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I know another time in another place.Wink  CM

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 2:31 PM

As above, the issue is not related to underlying Greek terms but to LCV tagging

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C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 3:53 PM

Graham Criddle:
As above, the issue is not related to underlying Greek terms but to LCV tagging

Yes, I am aware of it. What I shared high lighted the error and the urgency to fix it. Once again, did they fix the misstep ( LCV tagging)?   If not, why not? If not now, when? CM

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2016 8:17 PM

Charles McNeil:

Graham Criddle:
As above, the issue is not related to underlying Greek terms but to LCV tagging

Yes, I am aware of it. What I shared high lighted the error and the urgency to fix it. Once again, did they fix the misstep ( LCV tagging)?   If not, why not? If not now, when? CM

Sean stated above they have filed a bug report,

I expect it will get fixed in an update to the LCV

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