Please share with us what the hang up is on PPB to Mobile

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This post has 101 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 2392
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2016 10:19 AM


Mark:

2. While FL created the system, it is understandable that you do not want PBB to be turned into a private business of selling pbbs. But it seems to me you can state that and put into the user agreement that pbbs cannot be sold and that pbbs of logos content cannot be made, and that if a pbb is made of a resource that at some point FL plans to produce and sell, that it will at that point be disallowed and deleted as a pbb.


Why are you “Analyzing” our PBB files?

Mark:

3. You mentioned that PBB is used by a tiny group of users.


I wonder how that “tiny group of users” rank as paying customers. That is are the 0.5% of customers that use PBB the same people that are the top 0.5% of paying customers. [Actual percentages were not stated] [[the answer to that question might effect other remarks made by “Mark” on ‘tiny base of users’]]  

Aaron W:

"but a huge number are actually copyrighted titles scanned, exported, or otherwise brought into the system"
1. I don't want the ability to store my PBB files on Logos' servers. It's terrifying to me that Logos has read and reads my own files while I have no way of deleting or removing them from their servers. It's really none of Logos' business what I put into the program, itself. (…) I don't want Logos in my business, but Bob's response clearly shows that they are all up in there.

Question: If someone who has the legal rights to the text that they release to the web as a PDF [Not all do], expecting others to download, read and view that file, what is wrong in converting it to be read by yet another reader such as the Logos Apps?

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2016 11:06 AM

I like that it hasn't been completely abandoned. I understand the major shift it would take in the underlying mechanics of the mobile app, and that the recent lay offs represent a de-emphasis on the mobile platform (for now).

However - it really doesn't matter how many use it because the fact still remains (and I believe I have the emails to support this) sales promised me when I purchased v4 Gold (and one of the selling points for V4) that one day soon I would be able to upload and sync personal books (with the caveat that they were my notes from class, or sermons etc) across ALL of my devices. I pushed him for a date, and he replied that he had been led to believe it would be in a patch in the next few weeks, probably the next patch.

Slap a disclaimer on the tool "for legal use of documents you have created only", and build a wall between you and user content (to exculpate logos from liability). Apply the sacrificial fire rule to a user you've already identified as grossly violating the rule and ban him/her from the tool for a few months... Flush your data about who has what files.

Then have your brilliant and wonderful employees devise a way to hash the files, and compare hashes, and thus preventing duplication. Run the sync once weekly or monthly - PUBLICIZE THAT WELL.

If I was promised - I wonder how many others were.

If it comes to the point where you decide it will never happen, and there really aren't many of us that use it. then maybe other arrangements can be made?

Any way. I hope the feature comes about, but I'm not holding my breath.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 7978
LogosEmployee

Aaron W:

It's terrifying to me that Logos has read and reads my own files ... I don't want Logos in my business, but Bob's response clearly shows that they are all up in there.

Faithlife does not read your PBBs. Faithlife employees don’t have your resources in their Logos 7 libraries.

What happened is that when you upload (and only when you upload) a Personal Book, it gets fed into our standard resource distribution pipeline. The file gets placed on our CDN (so you can download it); its metadata gets stored in our central database, etc. (This was a pragmatic decision so that we could reuse all our existing licensing and resource services to distribute the file to your other computers, instead of writing parallel services for PBB that do exactly the same work. It was also based on the assumption that we might eventually launch a “PBB Store” that would need to have all this resource information in the main database so that PBB results could even show up in a logos.com search, potentially.)

The side-effect was that when employees queried our central book catalogue for A Certain Popular Christian Title, literally the first few dozen results were records from synced personal books. We weren't trying to analyze users’ uploaded personal books, it simply happened that so many people had uploaded a book with the exact same title that it came up in search results. (This was an unintended side effect of our implementation that we didn’t expect because we assumed that PBB would be used for Personal Books, not syncing copyrighted content. In fact, we don’t actually know that the files contain copyrighted content because we didn’t inspect them; we simply assume that this title is unique enough that it’s highly likely that those PBBs contain the content of that work.) We’ve since excluded PBBs from the search results in our central catalogue because our employees don't need (nor want) to see PBB records when searching our database of Logos, Vyrso and Noet titles.

In summary: we aren’t reading your books, but some metadata from uploaded PBBs inadvertently happened to show up in some internal search results, which tipped us off to the possible existence of this content.

Posts 142
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2016 4:54 PM

Bob Pritchett:

1) Users archiving and retrieving (and even sharing) their own sermons. We'll be addressing this with specialized tools and databases. (Sermon Editor, SoundFaith.com and more to come.)

Thanks for the great response Bob. I for one don't care about the PBB. I would rather see the Sermon Editor expanded. 

Posts 2392
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2016 5:33 PM

abondservant:

Slap a disclaimer on the tool "for legal use of documents you have created only", and build a wall between you and user content (to exculpate logos from liability). Apply the sacrificial fire rule to a user you've already identified as grossly violating the rule and ban him/her from the tool for a few months... Flush your data about who has what files.   

There is a fair use clause in the US Copyright codes where the courts have given us the right of converting from one format to another.  If the Mega Data [hash] would be the same for each individual conversion I don't know.  

Please define: ""for legal use of documents you have created only"".  Does that mean only sermons and studies that I personally write or files that I legally have the rights to read so I can pick the format that I read them in??

And when will Logos release the DR of 1585 / 1609??  [And Yes, there are PDF files out there on the web that were not authorized by the author with the format copyright.]

Posts 1080
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2016 6:34 PM

James Macleod:

I would rather see the Sermon Editor expanded. 

 I could not agree with you more. Amen to the one millionth power! 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

Posts 1080
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2016 6:34 PM

James Macleod:

I would rather see the Sermon Editor expanded. 

 I could not agree with you more. Amen to the one millionth power! 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 10 2016 8:11 PM

Mark:
1. Why can there not a way to have PBB stored on a user's document folder, and not on the server?

We could do this, and may as part of support file attachments to Notes, etc.

Remember, though, that my long list of reasons is just that -- a long list. No one reason is the core problem -- it's the mix of them. And the biggest obstacle is the time involved (for various technical reasons that may or may not be related to architecture choices we made years ago, but which none-the-less exist) in implementing the solutions, weighed against the number of users impacted and our other priorities, etc.

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 10 2016 8:13 PM

Aaron W:
I realize that nothing is going to change Logos' mind in this, but it also is a major part of the reason I've frozen my spending with Logos. It's clearly a business decision to try to monopolize a system and try to milk revenue from people in a constant stream. 

Actually, we change our mind all the time.... usually in response to things posted in these forums. :-)

I'm just trying to share what's influenced our thinking on this topic to this point. Maybe we'll change our minds again....

Thanks for being part of the conversation.

Posts 1934
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 6:43 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Mark:
1. Why can there not a way to have PBB stored on a user's document folder, and not on the server?

We could do this, and may as part of support file attachments to Notes, etc.

Remember, though, that my long list of reasons is just that -- a long list.

Thanks Bob for the feedback.  I am just brainstorming now...

If it helps to delete, obliterate, erase, get rid of all pbb files so that all that we users created would need to create them again in order to move to a better system, though that may mean losing a lot of pbbs created over the years, that would be acceptable to me.  I really really like preaching with the Bible open on the left and my pbb sermon on the right of the screen.  I also really really like the idea of being able to have books that will never get into logos as a pbb.  If the sermons and these books are stored locally, it would solve some problems. 

I would like to help brainstorm solutions to your pbb dilemma.  I am sure that I am not the only reasonable customer who would be happy to brainstorm either on this threat, a new thread or a private thread.

Posts 172
Philip Bassham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2016 5:51 AM

The main reason I need personal books is to support obscure languages that you will likely never have products for (Thai for me). 

I am trying to collect and develop resources for a language that has virtually nothing, and want a platform that is trustworthy, reliable and that can serve as a reliable base for all of this.

Adding mobile sync would make you the single option for Bible software that could be used like this to creating resources in other languages across all platforms. This would be great for getting customers hooked into and trained on your system and incentivized to invest more. Not to mention being a great service to the church in these languages that don’t have software written for them.

You might say that that is not a market for your products since they don’t speak English, but the vast majority actually do, just not as a first language, and need a place that accomodates their native language resources as well as the resources that are only availble in English under one roof. 

Posts 292
Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 4:47 AM

I received this email yesterday from FL about the status of one of my UserVoice submissions, this one asking for PB sync to Mobile. (First time I have seen this type of email).  It appears that we won't see this feature.

Status update

An idea you supported has been closed. Thank you for your feedback.

1 vote has been returned to you. Give feedback on other ideas to help us decide what to build next.

543 votes declined +1 vote

PBB Sync to Mobile

Under Review → Declined

Hello everyone,

We’d like to provide you with a definitive answer regarding PBB sync to mobile since many of you have taken time to give us feedback. Unfortunately we have no plans to implement PBB on mobile, now or in the future. We do really appreciate your input on this topic, and we’re always happy to hear feedback on how we can improve our mobile experience.

Cheers,

Daniel
and
The Faithlife Mobile Team

Mobile Development
Mobile Development
software, Logos
Posts 1699
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 10:25 AM

So there.

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 8895
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 4:41 PM

Bruce Roth:

Hello everyone,

We’d like to provide you with a definitive answer regarding PBB sync to mobile since many of you have taken time to give us feedback. Unfortunately we have no plans to implement PBB on mobile, now or in the future. We do really appreciate your input on this topic, and we’re always happy to hear feedback on how we can improve our mobile experience.

Cheers,

Daniel
and
The Faithlife Mobile Team

Well, that makes it very clear albeit disappointing.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 1699
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 7:45 PM

"it's technical"  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/126859/825408.aspx#825408 

"No, it isn't"  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/122739/802119.aspx#802119 

"Yes, it is"  http://community.logos.com/forums/p/104935/725730.aspx#725730 

"Look, an argument isn't just contradiction."

"It can be."

"No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition; it's not just saying 'No it isn't.' "

"Yes, it is."

"No, it isn't"

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 67
Vadim | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 19 2017 12:43 PM

I am also one of those customer who works largely with non-English materials.

If I am able to sync Personal Books between computers, why not to an IOS device?

Could you at least allow us to download a PB to an iOS device and just keep it there?

Posts 2392
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 20 2017 7:23 AM

Vadim:

If I am able to sync Personal Books between computers, why not to an IOS device?

We have asked for that for years. One technical problem is that each device type has its own way of loading from the outside world.  Faithlife chose to do all sync though their servers in stead of making a local SCAN function. And there are not enough of us PBB users to PAY for the change.  Most of my 300 PBB files are readables that I have the legal right to read so I, for my own use only, dropped them into Logos. I can and have loaded the PDF onto my tablet but yes, it sure would be better if it loaded into Logos on tablet. 

I assume that somewhere in their load of their resources to a tablet they have a SCAN function.  It is just hard wired to only read from some download folder and can not be redirected to the document folder on our tablets so that we can not use that code to load the PBB files into Logos on our tablets. 

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 20 2017 9:04 AM

abondservant:

I like that it hasn't been completely abandoned. I understand the major shift it would take in the underlying mechanics of the mobile app, and that the recent lay offs represent a de-emphasis on the mobile platform (for now).

However - it really doesn't matter how many use it because the fact still remains (and I believe I have the emails to support this) sales promised me when I purchased v4 Gold (and one of the selling points for V4) that one day soon I would be able to upload and sync personal books (with the caveat that they were my notes from class, or sermons etc) across ALL of my devices. I pushed him for a date, and he replied that he had been led to believe it would be in a patch in the next few weeks, probably the next patch.

Slap a disclaimer on the tool "for legal use of documents you have created only", and build a wall between you and user content (to exculpate logos from liability). Apply the sacrificial fire rule to a user you've already identified as grossly violating the rule and ban him/her from the tool for a few months... Flush your data about who has what files.

Then have your brilliant and wonderful employees devise a way to hash the files, and compare hashes, and thus preventing duplication. Run the sync once weekly or monthly - PUBLICIZE THAT WELL.

If I was promised - I wonder how many others were.

If it comes to the point where you decide it will never happen, and there really aren't many of us that use it. then maybe other arrangements can be made?

Any way. I hope the feature comes about, but I'm not holding my breath.

=/

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 1699
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 20 2017 11:12 AM

I wonder how difficult it would be to make the PBs that are sync'd to the desktop available on the Web App? (...the dreamer, the unwoken fool; in dreams no pain will kiss the brow....)

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 67
Vadim | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 20 2017 11:20 AM

I am not sure what you mean by a "SCAN" function.

If the issue is bandwidth, at the very lease they could enable the functionality locally (over cable), like syncing an iPhone with iTunes—

just allow us to transfer our personal books and notes unto an iOS device for offline use.

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