EBC good first "premium" commentary?

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Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:26 PM

Dan DeVilder:
Seminary costs and arm and a leg.  Sometimes two.

Since it costs an arm and a leg, so, people will spend half their life to earn money to go to it? And are there any age limit to enter it?

Thanks.

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:33 PM

Bill Moore:
Most students, at least that was my experience, have to work in order to support themselves and their families, but it was worth it to me.

So you work full time to support the family, then you learn part time, right? How many years then one need to get a ThD?

By the way, even ThD do not have scholarship/assistantship/fellowship to support the students? In the world, PhD program nearly always have scholarship and an assistantship (which means you need to teach in the campus) to make a living.

Thanks.

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:53 PM

By the way, do you guys think that this website is a good place to start?

I know Mounce is very famous. How about the others? If I finish all the things here, would it in any sense comparable to a Master of Arts of sth like that?

The good thing is that it is free. So, compare it to a distance learning program, might be this one is better?

Thanks.

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:01 PM

Kolen Cheung:

By the way, do you guys think that this website is a good place to start?

I know Mounce is very famous. How about the others? If I finish all the things here, would it in any sense comparable to a Master of Arts of sth like that?

The good thing is that it is free. So, compare it to a distance learning program, might be this one is better?

Thanks.

Yes, that is a great site. Some of the professors there, Robert Stein and Bruce Ware, to name a couple, were my profs at SBTS.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 3914
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:08 PM

Kolen Cheung:

By the way, do you guys think that this website is a good place to start?

I know Mounce is very famous. How about the others? If I finish all the things here, would it in any sense comparable to a Master of Arts of sth like that?

The good thing is that it is free. So, compare it to a distance learning program, might be this one is better?

Thanks.

Never heard of it, but I have heard of Mounce.  Btw, what is your connection with the Christian Witness Theological Seminary?

For me, seminary was a terrific experience, and much offset the cost, yeah, even the arm and the leg.  Although I often wished I were Episcopalian so I would earn more. Stick out tongue.  I learned a lot about digging in to God's word.  I formed many lasting relationships.  I learned to grapple with how one translates academic interests into "real life."  It was great being in a setting with other ministers-in-training.  In fact, many/most WERE in ministry already.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:09 PM

Kolen Cheung:

Bill Moore:
Most students, at least that was my experience, have to work in order to support themselves and their families, but it was worth it to me.

So you work full time to support the family, then you learn part time, right? How many years then one need to get a ThD?

By the way, even ThD do not have scholarship/assistantship/fellowship to support the students? In the world, PhD program nearly always have scholarship and an assistantship (which means you need to teach in the campus) to make a living.

Thanks.

When I did my PhD at SBTS, I had a part-time job at the seminary and a bi-vocational pastorate. I also went to school full time. Let's just say I didn't have to worry about what to do with my free time. Wink

Seminary doctorates are a different world than university doctorates when it comes to stipends and such.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:13 PM

Dan DeVilder:
Btw, what is your connection with the Christian Witness Theological Seminary?

Interesting question! Why would you ask that? And what do you think about it?

It is the first time I heard the name. And when I did a Google search, I found that I know it in Chinese. And I actually been there once to see my friend's friend graduating there. And that is the "connection".......

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:15 PM

Bill Moore:
Seminary doctorates are a different world than university doctorates when it comes to stipends and such.

Then are there any good University ThD program?

Thanks.

Posts 3914
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 2:38 PM

Kolen Cheung:

Dan DeVilder:
Btw, what is your connection with the Christian Witness Theological Seminary?

Interesting question! Why would you ask that? And what do you think about it?

It is the first time I heard the name. And when I did a Google search, I found that I know it in Chinese. And I actually been there once to see my friend's friend graduating there. And that is the "connection".......

lol, i know nothing about it.  I googled you.  And that led to your xanga website, and a video you took at the graduation.  i was trying to see if I could figure out what country you were in.  Seminaries are all over the world.  :)

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 3:10 PM

Dan DeVilder:
lol, i know nothing about it.  I googled you.  And that led to your xanga website, and a video you took at the graduation.  i was trying to see if I could figure out what country you were in. 

 

CYBER STALKING ALERT!!! Surprise

 

(Disclaimer: this post is an attempt at humor)

 

 

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 3:48 PM

LOL. interesting

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 3:53 PM

I just make another statistics. It is from bestcommentaries.com:

 

  TOTC/TNTC EBC
Genesis 5.2 5.1
Exodus 4.9 4.6
Leviticus 5.4 5.2
Numbers 7.7 4.6
Deuteronomy 5.2 0
Joshua 7 0
Judges 5.4 0
Ruth 5.1 5.3
Samuel 5.6 4.6
Kings 6.4 0
Chronicles 6.6 0
Ezra/Nehemiah 6.6 4.6
Esther 7 0
Job 7.1 4.3
Psalms 6.4 5.7
Proverbs 6.1 4.6
Ecclesiastes 5.1 5.2
Song of Songs 5.4 0
Isaiah 6.1 4.6
Jeremiah 5.6 5.2
Lamentation 6 4.6
Ezekiel 0 5.1
Daniel 6.8 0
Hosea 4.5 0
Joel 5.4 5.2
Amos 5.2 4.1
Obadiah 6.4 0
Jonah 6.4 0
Micah 6.6 4.6
Nahum 5.4 0
Habakkuk 5.4 0
Zephaniah 5.5 0
Haggai 6.2 0
Zechariah 6.2 5.2
Malachi 6.2 0
Matthew 0 7.8
Mark 5.1 0
Luke 6.1 5.3
John 5.5 0
Acts 6.6 5.2
Romans 0 0
1 Corinthians 5.6 4.6
2 Corinthians 5.1 5.3
Galatians 5.3 0
Ephesians 5.2 0
Philippians 4.6 0
Colossians 6.5 0
Thessalonians 5.2 5.2
Timothy/Titus 5 0
Philemon 6.4 0
Hebrews 0 5.2
James 6.2 0
1 Peter 6.1 0
2 Peter/Jude 5.6 4.3
John 7 0
Revelation 5.5 5.1
average 5.4 2.5
Standard Deviation 1.7 2.6
no. of title w/o rating 4 28
Tyndale better 48  
EBC better   6

average means the averaged rating. Tyndale is a lot higher!

Standard deviation is a stat. measurement to see how varying the rating are. Obviously EBC is a lot uneven.

no. of title w/o rating indicates that the no. of the title that is "so bad" that don't even has a rating (zero rating). And EBC is "7 times" more than Tyndale.

"Tyndale better" and "EBC better" are the no. of books that Tyndale is better than EBC. Note that some of the books are combined (e.g. 1sam 2sam) so that there are only "56 books" in the whole Bible. The no. of books that Tyndale is better is "8 times" the no. of books that EBC is better.

So, in conclusion, Tyndale is much better (about "7~8 times" better) than EBC.

Obviously, I am a scientist.

By the way, the only 4 books that Tyndale receive no rating are: Ezekiel, Matthew, Romans, Hebrews. That means we can buy Tyndale plus 4 commentaries to each of these books to be the 'good first "premium" commentary'. Interestingly, the 3 NT books that Tyndale is not so good are all the first books of the divisions in the NT: Matthew, Romans, Hebrews.

P.S. I don't know how you interpret ". But what I mean is that "so bad" is not really so bad.

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 5:48 PM

Kolen Cheung:
no. of title w/o rating indicates that the no. of the title that is "so bad" that don't even has a rating (zero rating). And EBC is 7 times more than Tyndale.

Interesting comparison Kolen, but I did want to point out that just because a title doesn't have a rating doesn't mean that it is "so bad"...it just means that nobody has yet rated it.

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 5:49 PM

Kolen, there is nothing scientific about those ratings they are very subjective.

These are both very good commentaries, do you really think the one is 7 to 8 times better than the other one?

I have both sets and would not put the ratings any where near what those ratings are, and I seriously doubt that anyone that has used both sets would say the one set is 8 times better than the other.

By the way in one of Bill Mounce's classes he covers the use of commentaries he highly recommends the EBC and the NIV Application Commentary of the NT and OT.

There are very few commentaries that should rate a zero, even if compared to the best commentary in the world.

Becareful of your conclusions, make sure you examine the sources you are reading, know what kind of background they come from and if they are using other peoples opinions you also need to know something about the back ground that those people come from.

I am a dispensationalist, and it hurts me to see other dispensationalist so cold heartedly knock commentaries just because they were written by a covenant believer, but it happens all the time, I have also seen the tables turned, both attitudes are short sighted.

By the way there are a number of free programs on the internet, Covenant Theological Seminary has one of their masters degree programs for free!  The program by Mounce is good and so are a number of others, you can try them all and decide more about where you would like to go.  If you want links and more information start a new topic and I will get your started.

In Christ,

Jim

 

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:10 PM

Well, I should put a " on the scientific to emphasize that it is just kidding.

And I should also put a " on the 7~8 to emphasize that it is an exaggeration. You, see, even from the average score, it is only a double of that.

And I did mention that the stat comes from bestcommentaries.com. So, it is up to the one who view the stat to justify if that site is biased or not.

P.S. I realize that I didn't mentioned that the method is scientific. A noun and an adj. make a huge difference. e.g. I am not a prophet but I can prophesy.

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:38 PM

JimVanSchoonhoven:
By the way there are a number of free programs on the internet, Covenant Theological Seminary has one of their masters degree programs for free!

Are there any ranking among the seminaries (like what the world did for the Universities)? In the world, though we cannot tell which school is the best, we could tell which school are among the best. e.g. MIT, Yale, Berkeley, etc. So, are there such seminaries, that everyone can tell that it is among the best?

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 9:01 PM

Kolen, depending what group you are from there are schools that are looked down upon and those that are looked up to.

It is really very subjective.  The question I would ask is does a school teach what I believe the scriptures teach or not.

The nice thing about living in the world of the internet, is that you can actually take classes for free form different schools or organizations and compare what they are teaching with the scriptures and with one another.

And if you don't mind paying some money you can try a lot of different schools out to get a feel for what kind of school you are looking for.

In the old days you just couldn't do that, in many cases you had to quit a job, leave a church, up root your family and move 100's or 1000's of miles to go to school.  We are very blessed in this age we can keep our job, stay at the same fellowship, we don't have to move and we can try different schools out and find one that fits our needs.  Plus you can take classes at more than one school at the same time.  For example if you want to find out what a dispensationlist believes go to a dispensational school, not a covenant school, and if you want to know about Covenant theology don't go to a dispensational school to learn about it!

I have no degree, but many of my friends have Doctors Degrees, but I have no problem following what they are saying and they learn as much from me as I do from them.  I don't need and don't want a degree, I want to know what the scriptures say and what they mean, I want to know Jesus more deeply and to share Him with others, having a degree does not help any of those goals, but I do like to study, so that I can give an answer to anyone that has a question.

Check out some different classes from different places for yourself, start with the free ones, free does not mean bad! But at times it does!!!  And remember who lives inside you and who is your teacher and remember  the answers are given to us in His revelation, the Word of God, trust God to direct your paths.

In Christ,

Jim

Posts 405
Amy Leung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 9:32 PM

Kolen, it seems that you live in the same city as I do (Hong Kong).  Wink  Have you considered the local seminaries?  Or maybe taken some ad hoc or evening courses to see how you like (or do not like) it? 

 

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 10:10 PM

JimVanSchoonhoven:
And remember who lives inside you and who is your teacher and remember  the answers are given to us in His revelation, the Word of God, trust God to direct your paths.

Thanks for your encouragement.

I am open to any seminary as long as they train me to dig into the Word. It is ok to have different point of view as long as they are open minded to accept the other's view.

Might be I should share what I think:

““I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day. ” (Acts 22:3, ESV)

Paul was under that strict training before he was saved. Though that training lead him to prosecute Jesus, but it is the same training lead him to be able to write 13-14 epistles.

What I am seeking is exactly today's Gamaliel. He might taught me the thing that I don't believe. But hopefully this strict training help me to know His word more. I read sth like this: "But they also knew their Hebrew better than most folks alive today, and they have spent most of their lives studying these books in far greater detail than I ever will." from "Which commentary is Best?" So, might be these group of people is today's Gamaliel. And I am still searching for that.

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 10:12 PM

Amy Leung:
Kolen, it seems that you live in the same city as I do (Hong Kong).  Wink  

How you know it?

But I am now in the US for further studies. And I actually have no chance to go to seminaries before I graduate. So I have several years to figure out which seminary is the best.

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