How Will Logos/Faithlife Handle This?

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This post has 195 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 883
P A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 11:22 AM

The Hebrews commentary is still available for sale in Logos

I thought it had been withdrawn

P A

Posts 883
P A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 12:02 PM

It has now been removed

Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 12:21 PM

DAL:
Ok...not trying to be mean or anything, but what does that have to do with anything? The issue is plagiarism and volumes being removed or bought back by the publisher, not the spelling of anybody's last name LOL that contributes nothing to the current issue. I'm sorry but you just left me wondering and scratching my head with your way out of the blue comment 😁🤔 I was like...what? 

OK, since you asked... Angel

1. I read the thread using my phone.

2. I assumed I am not the only one who did this.

3. I used the mobile app to see how many of the books being discussed by this thread I own.

4. I assumed I am not the only one who did this.

5. I used a method of searching that in this case did not work.

6. I assumed I am not the only one who did this.

7. I realized the problem was inconsistent metadata.

8. I shared what I found in hopes of helping others like myself who may have did what I did and been confused by the results like I was.

It took me 8 steps to get there, but I got there! Party!!!Party!!!Party!!!

Posts 1
Kevin D Williford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 4:14 PM

Reflects poorly not only on O'Brien, but on D. A. Carson as well.  Carson edited the series for Eerdmans, and as editor should have raised a red flag if sources were improperly or insufficiently cited.  

Posts 945
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 4:31 PM

Kevin D Williford:

Reflects poorly not only on O'Brien, but on D. A. Carson as well.  Carson edited the series for Eerdmans, and as editor should have raised a red flag if sources were improperly or insufficiently cited. 

How would Carson have known this?  I think you reach unfairly.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 4:32 PM

Matthew:
I got on my phone to try seeing what books I had by this author and noticed something interesting. At first the app showed me only one book by Brandon O'Brien:

Thanks for the report - I'll write up a case.

If you notice any Android app issues in the future please create a new post in the Android Apps forum (if you want the issue to get fixed). Thankfully someone pointed your post out to me; this thread is completely unrelated to the mobile apps and I would have missed it otherwise.

Posts 1223
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 5:11 PM

Its amusing to me that anyone would even have to write that they hoped they can keep their volumes. FL would NEVER make such an attempt, and even if they wanted to (which they do NOT), legally they could not do so. I'm sorry, but I can't fathom why this would even be a concern or consideration for anyone. I think we all know FL better than that...and I would like to think we know the law better than that. As someone else said...it would be akin to coming into your home and taking your print copy, which would be theft. 

Come on folks...let's be a little more realistic...with all due possible respect. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 523
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 5:21 PM

Myke Harbuck:

Its amusing to me that anyone would even have to write that they hoped they can keep their volumes. FL would NEVER make such an attempt, and even if they wanted to (which they do NOT), legally they could not do so. I'm sorry, but I can't fathom why this would even be a concern or consideration for anyone. I think we all know FL better than that...and I would like to think we know the law better than that. As someone else said...it would be akin to coming into your home and taking your print copy, which would be theft. 

Come on folks...let's be a little more realistic...with all due possible respect. 

Yes correct! That's what I think. How can someone take my property?

Posts 479
Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 6:11 PM

Myke Harbuck:

Its amusing to me that anyone would even have to write that they hoped they can keep their volumes. FL would NEVER make such an attempt, and even if they wanted to (which they do NOT), legally they could not do so. I'm sorry, but I can't fathom why this would even be a concern or consideration for anyone. I think we all know FL better than that...and I would like to think we know the law better than that. As someone else said...it would be akin to coming into your home and taking your print copy, which would be theft. 

Come on folks...let's be a little more realistic...with all due possible respect. 

I'm not worried at all, but perhaps some are remembering that Amazon did just that with some Kindle books a few years ago and were evidently within the law while doing so. They recognized that it was an unwise move in customer relations and I don't think they have repeated that for any reason in the last few years.

Posts 498
Greg Masone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 6:28 PM

Faithlife never removed Mark Driscoll's sermons from people's libraries when it was discovered he plagiarized other people's work too, so they probably won't do the same here.

Posts 102
Andrew Malone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 7:41 PM

I'll add my voice to those (1) lamenting inadvertent plagiarism, and (2) seeking to keep their Logos versions.

While there's some disbelief that we have to ask for this, I'm a little cautious about digital resources. After all, to my knowledge FL doesn't treat every digital edition exactly as a print copy. For example, I think academic purchases can't be transferred or bequeathed, as I'd hope to do with my print library... Huh?

Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 7:45 PM

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):
If you notice any Android app issues in the future please create a new post in the Android Apps forum (if you want the issue to get fixed). Thankfully someone pointed your post out to me; this thread is completely unrelated to the mobile apps and I would have missed it otherwise.

Will do. If the metadata itself is the problem, then would the issue not present itself on multiple platforms though, not just Android and iOS? 

Posts 2832
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 8:13 PM

The Commentaries by Peter O'Brien are among the very best in the Pillar series.  This is sad indeed, and I would like to keep mine despite its flaws.  I hate to see this carelessness result in a tarnished reputation for this gifted scholar.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 89
Rick Carmickle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 8:25 PM

I have all of the Pillar Commentaries, except Seifrid on 2 Corinthians. Yesterday evening, the dynamic price showed me $31 for the Pillar series to add that one book.

But when I went to buy it, the checkout price was $35.93. Today, the dynamic price shows $35.93. My guess is the dynamic price increased because the series price did not decrease but I am now adding 1 of 15 volumes instead of 1 of 17. 

Posts 2166
LogosEmployee

Matthew:

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):
If you notice any Android app issues in the future please create a new post in the Android Apps forum (if you want the issue to get fixed). Thankfully someone pointed your post out to me; this thread is completely unrelated to the mobile apps and I would have missed it otherwise.

Will do. If the metadata itself is the problem, then would the issue not present itself on multiple platforms though, not just Android and iOS? 

The desktop application finds both forms of the apostrophe when you search using the normal single quote. Presumably the mobile platforms are not correctly handling this.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 8:40 PM

Matthew:

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):
If you notice any Android app issues in the future please create a new post in the Android Apps forum (if you want the issue to get fixed). Thankfully someone pointed your post out to me; this thread is completely unrelated to the mobile apps and I would have missed it otherwise.

Will do. If the metadata itself is the problem, then would the issue not present itself on multiple platforms though, not just Android and iOS? 

The metadata isn't the problem, it's just a bug in the Android apps. The issue doesn't occur on iOS.

Posts 40
Neulsaem | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 16 2016 11:39 PM

I heard that Accordance users will be able to keep the current issue and will be given a free upgrade if the new sets become available. I hope the same will happen to Logos! Or maybe it'd be better to get credits for those books...? I don't know!

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 17 2016 2:18 AM

Everett Headley:

How would Carson have known this?  I think you reach unfairly.

I'm not sure I fully agree with you. There is software available to scan for plagiarism and I would expect publishers and editors to be using it. The editor of a work bears some responsibility for managing the copy-editor to ensure that the author's work is reasonably checked for such defects. O'Brien does bear the ultimate "fault", but this seems like a complete breakdown in the publishing system.

That said, I understand that nobody is perfect and I for one think all involved should be granted a great deal of grace on this. I would bet that nearly everyone has at one time or another inadvertently run afoul of proper source citation. Of course that is not an excuse, but I can see how this might happen. We have no reason to doubt O'Brien's word that this was not intentional. I value his commentaries and hope this can be easily fixed. 

Posts 6750
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 17 2016 2:51 AM

I really couldn't care less to be honest. It's the word of God they're presenting. Many times people think the exact same phrase and write it down without knowing some other guy wrote it and "copyrighted" it first. I'm just glad I get to keep some fine commentaries that help me in my studies. Those who worry about it too much clearly have too much time in their hands!

DAL

Posts 1501
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 17 2016 8:16 AM

I read about this in a blog this morning and went straight here to see what people were saying. I'm surprised by how many people thought FL was going to pull these works from their library. I'm sure that goes against our license agreement.

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