How Will Logos/Faithlife Handle This?

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This post has 195 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 3
Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 8:18 PM

How about IVP books?

IVP Issues Statement About Peter O’Brien Plagiarism Issue

http://www.frontgatemedia.com/ivp-issues-statement-about-peter-obrien-plagiarism-issue/

Posts 921
LogosEmployee
Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 8:45 PM

Steve:

How about IVP books?

IVP Issues Statement About Peter O’Brien Plagiarism Issue

http://www.frontgatemedia.com/ivp-issues-statement-about-peter-obrien-plagiarism-issue/

We are aware of the issue and are working out the details.

See this post for more info http://community.logos.com/forums/t/131361.aspx?PageIndex=1

Director, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 89
Randle Bond | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 9:58 PM
I have Ephesians and Hebrews. Can the publisher just not update them with extra referencing and foot notes? In my view they are each some of the best commentary work on these books. I'll be keeping them as I can't find anything recent that comes close.
Posts 1198
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 11:04 PM

Oh wow, the extent of this problem with O'Brien's works is very saddening.

For anyone interested who didn't, today I received the following mail from FaithLife:

Order update: Eerdmans Peter O'Brien Commentaries

You are receiving this email because you own at least one of the following resources.

 

In recent weeks Eerdmans informed Faithlife about content problems with several commentaries authored by Peter T. O’Brien. The following titles were impacted:

  • Pillar New Testament Commentary: The Letter to the Ephesians
  • Pillar New Testament Commentary: The Letter to the Hebrews
  • New International Greek Testament Commentary: The Epistle to the Philippians

 

We’re offering customers who wish to return these volumes Logos creditbased on the value of the book within the collection or base package you purchased. If you purchased any of these books individually, you’ll receive the full amount you paid.

To obtain the Logos credit, please follow this link to submit your refund request before October 31, 2016.

If you have questions, you can speak to a Logos customer service representative by calling 1-360-527-1700 or by emailing cs@logos.com.

I myself will not be returning as the problem doesn't have much effect on me. I also got the books as part of a deeply discounted L6 package so would probably get less than <$10 back for both of the two volumes I have.

Posts 29789
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 12:05 AM

Randle Bond:
Can the publisher just not update them with extra referencing and foot notes?

It would be the author's responsibility to update them; then the publisher would incur the cost of republication with a very much compromised market. When there are less than a hanful of dropped references, an errata sheet is satisfactory and the public is scarcely aware there was a problem.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 677
Robert Peters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 4:09 AM

The problem lies with academic writing. The use of his resources could be severely discrediting to your work. The problem lies is you decided to go to school and forget about this issue, but you have been using Obrien for years then decide to use his works it may cost you a severely diminished grade . 

Posts 2769
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 6:22 AM

Robert Peters:

The problem lies with academic writing. The use of his resources could be severely discrediting to your work. The problem lies is you decided to go to school and forget about this issue, but you have been using Obrien for years then decide to use his works it may cost you a severely diminished grade . 

Fortunately, within Logos you can make a note by way of a tag that would alert you of this.

Posts 2978
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 6:37 AM

"proper documentation of secondary sources"

I hate seeing Christians stepping in this Nonsence. WOW what a big Deal and a Great Sin he dit not say this Part is from (who cares who he was)...So, what?

No need for me to give it back 

Posts 1578
Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 6:41 AM

I will be keeping mine as well.

Posts 2953
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 7:19 AM

Kenute P. Curry:

I will be keeping mine as well.

Yes

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2850
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 7:54 AM

Sascha John:

"proper documentation of secondary sources"

I hate seeing Christians stepping in this Nonsence. WOW what a big Deal and a Great Sin he dit not say this Part is from (who cares who he was)...So, what?

No need for me to give it back 

I do understand this failure to document sources is a serious problem for anyone doing academic work or publishing.  So I do not totally agree with Sascha John.  It was a serious mistake for Dr. Peter O'Brien to make.  No doubt he has paid a heavy and severe price in the loss of academic reputation alone.  I do value Dr. O'Brien's work, and I pray for him in this stressful time.

 For those of us who are pastors using commentaries in our study of Scripture to understand the text for sermon / Bible Study preparation, it is not a serious matter.  Peter O'Brien's commentaries are among the most helpful available. 

Preachers rarely document sources to an academic or publishing standard.  When I quote from someone, I certainly give them credit.   However, my interpretation of a passage comes primarily from my own inductive study, supplemented by a number of commentaries.  My understanding of the passage may derive from several sources that I not going to list in a sermon.  I do not know anyone who does, and if they do, their sermons must be very dull. 

The bottom line is that for my purposes, Peter O'Brien's commentary is still one of the best, and I intend to keep it.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2088
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 8:57 AM

Sascha John:

"proper documentation of secondary sources"

I hate seeing Christians stepping in this Nonsence. WOW what a big Deal and a Great Sin he dit not say this Part is from (who cares who he was)...So, what?

No need for me to give it back 

I am also keeping mine because I believe they are valuable, but I do believe this to be a big deal.  Would you feel the same if a music artist put a song on his or her album that was actually recorded by someone else?

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2769
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 9:00 AM

Kenute P. Curry:

I will be keeping mine as well.

Yes

And I will be keeping mine. For me, it is more important for the information to be correct rather than who the information came from. Academically, it may be a concern, and in that case, for those that would rather keep than to sell back, a note can be placed on the tags.

Posts 2978
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 9:22 AM

Joseph

First: Yes, I realy don't care about this.

Second: Yes, if he just forget to tell that this is not his own Song

Third: No, if he say it his own Song

Sascha

Posts 29789
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 1:40 PM

Sascha John:

Second: Yes, if he just forget to tell that this is not his own Song

Third: No, if he say it his own Song

In publishing under his own name, there is no difference between 2 and 3.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 1:41 PM

Here is what I've done with mine so far is tagged them "Do Not Cite" in the library so I won't accidentally use them in academic writing.

In terms of returning them, I may call CS and see what my Logos Credit would be just to be curious, but since I got them as part of a base package, it's likely my credit wouldn't be enough to buy replacement commentaries with them.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 2068
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 4:58 PM

Nathan Parker:

In terms of returning them, I may call CS and see what my Logos Credit would be just to be curious, but since I got them as part of a base package, it's likely my credit wouldn't be enough to buy replacement commentaries with them.

While I understand the complexities of what the credit would be, I also would like to know general figures before making a decision.  would it be possible to give us general guidelines as to what the credit would be if purchased in a package or if purchased separately?

Posts 9
Cynthia Ventura | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 7:46 PM

I own the Pillar Ephesians and the NIGT Philippians. I also own them via the purchase of a base product.  When I inquired as to the amount of my credit, this is Logos' reply:

Thank you for your email. The credit amount would be approximately $1.00. If you would like a credit and have the resources removed from your account please complete the survey.

If you opt for a credit the resources will be removed from your library. The resources will remain in your library if you do not opt for a credit. 

Sincerely,

Logos Bible Software

Needless to say I'm keeping both. 

Posts 2978
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 8:44 PM

That's right for me is no Difference until I hear it.

Back to the Commentary, I dont't care who wrote something I care if it is true. If I like it, there is no Problem to me to cite and say:" Pillar Commentary...says..."

Posts 10754
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 3:22 AM

I like the line my grandson appends to every email—at least the ones he send me. He puts it in quotes, but does not  say from whom it came—

It’s amazing what people can accomplish when they have no concern for who receives the credit.”

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