New Feature: Sermon Editor

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This post has 256 Replies | 27 Followers

Posts 1188
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 12:01 PM

First of all, let me say that this tool is worth the upgrade alone. It is awesome, I love how the sermon is integrated into Logos.

I copied a recent sermon into it and I am working on tweaking the format.  Not to be difficult, but is there a general idea when we will be able to send it to our iPad? 

Posts 481
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 12:36 PM

Eli Evans:

Changing the style of all the slides at once is a planned feature for an upcoming release.

Until then, if you change the first slide when you first open a sermon, it should use that slide as the new default for the rest of the sermon:

  1. Click the slide next to the sermon title.
  2. Choose "Edit".
  3. The Media tool will open. Choose 16:9 aspect ratio.
  4. Click the "Update sermon" button in the Media toolbar.
  5. This is now the default style for slides in your sermon.

Also, if you use Proclaim, this is very easy to change after you export. 

This doesn't work for me when I want to change the image for every slide in a sermon. 

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 12:42 PM

John Duffy:
This doesn't work for me when I want to change the image for every slide in a sermon. 

Because...

Eli Evans:

Changing the style of all the slides at once is a planned feature for an upcoming release.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 481
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 12:45 PM

TCBlack:

John Duffy:
This doesn't work for me when I want to change the image for every slide in a sermon. 

Because...

Eli Evans:

Changing the style of all the slides at once is a planned feature for an upcoming release.

Hi TCBlack, there are two ways to change all the slides, one is to wait until a new planned feature appears, as you point out. The other way which Eli expands on is to change the very first sermon slide - it is this which doesn't work as he has described. At least, it doesn't work for me when changing the slide image using his steps.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 12:55 PM

John,  

Eli Evans:
if you change the first slide when you first open a sermon
 I think that means you have to change it before you type anything at all.  Not after the fact.

IOW this won't currently change anything but the first slide once some have been generated.  

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 1188
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 12:58 PM

Can someone give me directions or point me to a place to see how I would send an exported sermon to sermon cloud then view/preach from there?

I exported to pdf and the font is huge!  

Posts 481
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 1:05 PM

TCBlack:

John,  

Eli Evans:
if you change the first slide when you first open a sermon
 I think that means you have to change it before you type anything at all.  Not after the fact.

IOW this won't currently change anything but the first slide once some have been generated.  

Yeah, I tried that on a brand new document, after it didn't work on one I had started writing. 

I'll just wait until that and some other cool features are added.  These would hopefully include; sermon date and location (which you have noted elsewhere), font colour and size and even saving a set of styles for headings (I use the same set of different colours for different heading styles), uploading my own image(s), more complete citation with author and page number instead of just the title of a resource (I normally like to be able to name the author by name when I quote them during a sermon, and give the page number to anyone who asks), ability to delete part of verse in a verse slide since I often want to show and quote only part of a Bible verse. But I'm really looking forward to seeing this document type develop, as I think it has great potential to enhance sermon delivery by increasing the visual presentation content with less preparation time. Really excited about this, but I have to wait for the moment before switching over from Word.

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 1:06 PM

TCBlack:
IOW this won't currently change anything but the first slide once some have been generated.  

Correct. In the currently shipping version, selecting a slide style applies that style from this point in time forward in in the document, not retroactively to any already added slides. So: For best results, choose your style first, then start typing.

(The feature to adjust retroactively is what we're planning to add in a future version as soon as we can.) 

Hope that helps.

Posts 481
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 1:11 PM

Eli Evans:

TCBlack:
IOW this won't currently change anything but the first slide once some have been generated.  

Correct. In the currently shipping version, selecting a slide style applies that style from this point in time forward in in the document, not retroactively to any already added slides. So: For best results, choose your style first, then start typing.

(The feature to adjust retroactively is what we're planning to add in a future version as soon as we can.) 

Hope that helps.

Hi Eli, my point is that it doesn't apply the new style at all to anything other than the selected slide. If I add new slides after modifying a slide image, the same default black background persists on all slides. This occurs if I edit and update the title slide or any slide in the sermon. But as I wrote just now in another post, after trying it out just a little, there are a number of features I would need to see added before switching over to sermon editor completely.  But again, I'm really enthusiastic about this tool, because it has great potential but is not quite there yet for me to use.

Posts 201
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 1:16 PM

The prompt is a great thing. But that doesn't allow colored text. I a color for headings, a color for Bible text, a color for language focus, a color for illustrations, and a color for transitions. When I look away from my manuscript, it makes it easy to find where I was. It also makes it easy to not use parts of the the manuscript if time is an issue... say someone shares a long testimony before they sing or someone makes long announcements. It would be nice to be able to create "templates" for the sermon editor like we have for copy bible verses. I know it is asking for something that has been discussed over and over... I know that Logos is not going to incorporate a fully featured "L7 Word Processor" into the product. Mobile support of the doc type (Yes, I just piled on.), space between paragraphs and a little color control would be nice. And one other thing. If I drag and drop a Bible verse or paste a Bible verse... I would not like the publisher's citation in my manuscript. I am ok with it doing that to other resources. It is kind of annoying with the Bible verses. I tend to use a lot of those and the word count gets high from publisher credits.

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 1:28 PM

John Duffy:
Hi Eli, my point is that it doesn't apply the new style at all to anything other than the selected slide.

Ah. Then you may be experiencing a bug that I think we have fixed internally that hasn't shipped out yet. (If I try to explain it in detail, I'm afraid I'll get it wrong Smile).

Posts 481
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 3:14 PM

Eli Evans:

John Duffy:
Hi Eli, my point is that it doesn't apply the new style at all to anything other than the selected slide.

Ah. Then you may be experiencing a bug that I think we have fixed internally that hasn't shipped out yet. (If I try to explain it in detail, I'm afraid I'll get it wrong Smile).

I look forward to the fix Eli. :)

Posts 1
Eric Tillman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 5:13 PM

I have been having problems with the citations being displayed in the body of the sermon, rather than as a footnote or end note.It also does not keep the citations in order or update the citation order when I change the sequence of the items within my sermon. Logos does proper citation placement, when it exports to a MS Word document. I am not sure why it does not do this within its own ecosystem?

I love this concept and would love to use it,but is needs a better word processing functionality.

Posts 425
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 5:15 PM

The Sermon Editor certainly has a lot of potential. I do not usually use PowerPoint, handouts, and full manuscripts, but I do like how the Sermon Editor streamlines and integrates all of these elements, which would make me even more likely to integrate occasional maps and images into a bible study. 

In order to use the Sermon Editor, however, I'd need to have the formatting tools to easily segment, indent, and rather simply outline Greek and Hebrew text, whether by sentences, clauses, prosodic units, or other smaller or larger units (poetic or otherwise) (cf. the Lexham Discourse Bible and Propositional Outlines). I tend to preach and teach more extemporaneously with my notes (in OneNote) framed around the original language text, usually with an accompanying English Bible translation. I'd likely use the Sermon Editor, however, if there were more (even very basic) options for formatting and editing English and original language texts, whether in tandem or independently. It doesn't seem quite up to the task yet, and I don't know if it's in the plans, but I'll at least tinker around with it some more.

Posts 33
Andy Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 5:16 PM

Feature Request:

Give us a 'Visual Filter' for the differing components in a Sermon Document. This way we could turn on or off things such as Prompts, Questions, or Handouts.  This would keep what I want to see on Screen - for instance I would like to use/export the Text View to speak from, but 'Prompts' are not shown while in All View things such as Questions or Handouts are not needed to speak from. Having a 'Visual Filter' would give the flexibility to use the document for any purpose.

Feature Request:

Add style to all types of text when exporting. For instance, prompts could be in a 'prompt' style, questions in a 'question' style, etc. This way when a sermon is exported to Word those styles could be edited to quickly format the document as wished

I'm liking the direction this is headed - thanks for the work!

Posts 7922
LogosEmployee

Mike Tourangeau:

Can someone give me directions or point me to a place to see how I would send an exported sermon to sermon cloud then view/preach from there?

Click the Export button on the Sermon Editor, then choose SoundFaith as the destination. See my comments earlier in this thread about some limitations with this approach: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129241/840089.aspx#840089 

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:45 PM

Randy Radke:
It's too bad they were hesitant to add full control.

It's not out of the question... here's my concern: experience (and observation) shows that when people are given 'structured' editors (driven by style sheets, with limited formatting options) they are annoyed, but generally use the structure.

When you give people unstructured free-formatting editors, they hack everything up with their own conventions -- which is a win for human freedom and creative expression (yay!) but a loss for automatic processing.

For example, if people can control fonts and size, they often skip things like choose H1, H2, or H3 and just make headings bigger, or bold, or in a different font (or all three). And then the software has a harder time detecting that that was a header, which is important when you want to write features that preserve headings across Questions and Handouts, or cause them to automatically generate slides, etc.

Or people turn text red. Then change their mind and instead of turning it back to 'default' they set it to black, or something close to black. Then we need to render the sermon in a Proclaim notes field (or remote app), where the UI is reversed, and now it's black text on a black background.

Obviously these are more our problem than yours. Big Smile But we want to do cool things 'automagically', and styled text enables that.

We can just open up more styling... but how about opening it up in a style-sheet compatible way? For example, what if there are six font color choices, but internally they are 'Accent Color 1' through 'Accent Color 6'. They'd almost always be the same colors, but that wouldn't be a promise -- in another rendering context they might be different, though still all six unique, not-the-base-text colors.

And is it important that you can specify 72 pt text? Or can it be 'Big, Bigger, Biggest', etc? 

(This is what well formed HTML is usually like... though of course people hate that too, which is why HTML now supports every possible style -- but that hand-styled text can be harder to work with programatically.)

Is there a short list of character level styles most people could agree to? (Just as we H1, H2, H3, Prompt, and Title are universal paragraph styles.)

What do you call out a word or phase for? How do you mark things up beyond bold and italic WITHIN a paragraph, and how do you mark up paragraphs themselves? All caps? Bigger? Centered? 2-3 colors or 15 colors? Do the colors have semantic meaning -- does red always need to be red, or is it just to stand out?

Posts 21
Jeremy Priest | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 9:16 PM

When I go to documents and select "Sermon" it pulls up the "Sermon Editor" window, but there is no way to enter text. I'm a Now member and upgraded beyond Gold, so I have the data sets. Thoughts?

Posts 21
Jeremy Priest | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 9:29 PM

I restarted and now it works.

Posts 620
Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 9:57 PM

Bob,

First, I would like to say thank you for this new feature, and thank you to all the developers and other staff who created this. I'm assuming you get some kind of statistics back that provide you with information on how each tool in Logos is being used. I am hoping that this is one of the areas that you see massive use of the tool. I've used it already for two teaching opportunities, and I am planning on using it for the foreseeable future.

Bob Pritchett:

When you give people unstructured free-formatting editors, they hack everything up with their own conventions -- which is a win for human freedom and creative expression (yay!) but a loss for automatic processing.

For example, if people can control fonts and size, they often skip things like choose H1, H2, or H3 and just make headings bigger, or bold, or in a different font (or all three). And then the software has a harder time detecting that that was a header, which is important when you want to write features that preserve headings across Questions and Handouts, or cause them to automatically generate slides, etc.

I agree with your assessment. I've actually appreciated many of the limitations of the tool in this regard. It has forced me to create a document that will be consistent and manageable while also being useful.

With that in mind, I appreciate the direction of the suggestions you made regarding text styling, color options, etc.

The only item that I won't be using at this point until it is changed would be the speaker prompt. I'd prefer to have roughly six different colors to use as prompts. I used color in my previous sermon notes system (i.e. Word doc) to identify things like propositional statements, definitions, transitional statements, illustrations, and the like. I don't really use my notes in my preaching, except as a "security blanket," because I preach mostly from memory, but occasionally I will use those prompts to remember where in my flow of thought I wanted my illustration. Having some access to color is a huge benefit when you are in front of a bunch of people trying to find where that cool illustration was supposed to go. Color allows for quick and easy identification of key areas. Minimal color options would be fine.

On the other hand, I really don't need color at all in my handouts. I really just need it for prompts or for certain parts of the body of the sermon.

One nice addition that I would like to see is a way of marking our illustrations (similar to the add to handout button). If we could mark our illustrations and have them magically added to an illustration datebase, Personal Book, or something, that would be truly amazing. Especially if it could keep track of when and where we used the illustration automatically. That might allow us to go back and see, "Oh, I've used that illustration with these folks three times. I better learn to change this up."

Perhaps the reverse could also be enabled, meaning it would be nice to be able to add things to my illustration database when I find them. I could tag them, etc. Then when I am working on my sermon could click "add illustration" and pull up an illustration browser that lets me widdle my list down to my three illustrations on "forgiveness." Logos could also work on building in all their sermon illustration in the sermon illustration books that you sell into this illustration browser.

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