Where are the "Libraries"?

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Posts 957
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 10:43 AM

Frank Sauer:

I understand we lease them. The confusion is that sales states you have to pay extra for the Feature Set, but the upgrade page lists them as features included in your purchase. To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.

In this scenario, I would say that Sales is right and CS is wrong. Maybe someone from Faithlife will come along and give a definitive answer.

Frank Sauer:

Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

This thread may be helpful, especially Eli's response. The way they've worded the L7 product pages (and also left out disclaimers, especially for the LN people) is unfortunate. And while they've acknowledged it, there's no fix yet, which means ensuing confusion as more people make/attempt to make purchases.

Posts 3007
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 10:45 AM

Frank Sauer:
To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.

Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

The reality is that if you have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and one resource will show up in your cart, for whatever price. That resource is the library. Libraries do not include features.

If you don't have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and two resources will show up in your cart, for whatever prices. Those resources are the library and a feature set. If you don't want the feature set, you can remove it from your cart.

All words to the contrary notwithstanding.

Posts 634
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 10:58 AM

Again... I understand that what you are saying is what is being said. However when purchasing an upgrade, it does not reflect this. It clearly states that I'm purchasing a Base Package not library. Clearly states that the Feature Set IS included and the Full Feature Set is clearly listed under the What You'll Get Features section as New to Me.

So despite what Sales is saying, the purchase process contradicts that and is falsely representing what is included. Not to mention Sales told me to contact Customer Service about this concern for the answer and CS said the website iscorrect the Feature Set is included.

SineNomine:

Frank Sauer:
To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.

Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

The reality is that if you have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and one resource will show up in your cart, for whatever price. That resource is the library. Libraries do not include features.

If you don't have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and two resources will show up in your cart, for whatever prices. Those resources are the library and a feature set. If you don't want the feature set, you can remove it from your cart.

All words to the contrary notwithstanding.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 11:42 AM

Thanks everyone for trying to clarify, but I'm in a similar boat to Frank. When I visit my page, it's saying the Logos 7 Feature Set will be included with my purchase of Platinum, that I'll be upgrading to the Feature Set, and It even shows me what featured in the Feature Set I'll be purchasing with Platinum. It's also own my showing academic discounts for me and not showing any Logos Now discounts. 

When I add the item to my cart, it's showing it's been added to my cart in a message, but when I visit my shopping cart, it's saying no items in your cart.  So I can't even get to the item in my cart to determine what I'd be purchasing to get an estimated price (hence why I also have a message into my sales rep). 

When I look at what books will be "new to me" versus the price tag (over $700), this cannot be the correct price. There's a couple of good sets that would be new to me, but there isn't a great amount of new resources I'd be getting that justifies over $700 to upgrade especially after already subscribing to Logos Now for the datasets. This is more than I've ever paid for a Logos base package upgrade before with datasets and everything included (and a far better selection of resources to boot). 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 634
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 11:59 AM

Here's an update. Since there is so much confusion within FL on this. I just ordered the Feature Set only and it, as Sales says is a separate charge. My upgrade price did not change.

This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included. It needs to be corrected, as to not falsely advertise and mislead people inadvertently.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 12:36 PM

I just talked with my sales rep. Seems the price on the page is my correct price. Since I had an active payment plan, I'm asking how much my payment plan will increase and how long he can extend it out to, but I'm going to have to think long and hard about this before springing for it right away. I'm not impressed that my L7 upgrade is costing more for just books than I've paid for any previous Logos upgrade which included datasets and all, and while there's a handful of resources I'd use, I'm still not sure I'd get all my upgrade price worth. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 26118
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 12:48 PM

Frank Sauer:
This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 634
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 12:52 PM

Nathan, I do somewhat agree with you. I do believe the upgrade from V6 to V7 is heavy on the Feature and Dataset side. With the discount we get for being Logos Now subscribers, I grabbed the Full Feature Set for what I do consider a very good deal.

As for the resource offerings, I do believe past upgrades have been more appeasing. Standard Platinum does intrigue me with with AYBD and the Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries, not sure I value the overall content for the price either.

Overall, whether I decide to go with a library upgrade or not, I am excited to lock in the Features without being tied to Now going forward.

Posts 634
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 12:58 PM

Disagree MJ.

The asterisk does not eliminate the clear statements that the Feature Set is included on both the Greeting Block as I showed in the screen shot I posted, as well as clearly stating that I would receive them in the What You'll Get section and listed under "New to You". It is inadvertent false advertising. Intent vs Reality in sales is not a valid excuse for what is very misleading.

When you are purchasing a product and it clearly states you are receiving something, but you are not... That is false advertising. 

MJ. Smith:

Frank Sauer:
This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

Posts 13312
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 2:18 PM

MJ. Smith:

Frank Sauer:
This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

"False" is strong, although to be fair to Frank, he frequently said "inadvertently false". But "too subtle" is far too weak, IMO. What the page says is misleading at best. For people who aren't buying the Feature Set, it's not too subtle, it's wrong, and it should be fixed.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:05 PM

Frank Sauer:

Nathan, I do somewhat agree with you. I do believe the upgrade from V6 to V7 is heavy on the Feature and Dataset side. With the discount we get for being Logos Now subscribers, I grabbed the Full Feature Set for what I do consider a very good deal.

As for the resource offerings, I do believe past upgrades have been more appeasing. Standard Platinum does intrigue me with with AYBD and the Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries, not sure I value the overall content for the price either.

Overall, whether I decide to go with a library upgrade or not, I am excited to lock in the Features without being tied to Now going forward.

The Full Feature Set price isn't too bad (especially for Logos Now members). Since I have Logos Now, I'll likely continue with it instead of purchasing the Full Featue Set. 

Past upgrades have definitely been more appealing on resources. There's a few things out of Platinum I'd use (Hermeneia would be nice to have), but I am surprised at the price for just the books. It's fewer books and fewer excellent resources for more money. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:08 PM

Mark Barnes:

MJ. Smith:

Frank Sauer:
This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

"False" is strong, although to be fair to Frank, he frequently said "inadvertently false". But "too subtle" is far too weak, IMO. What the page says is misleading at best. For people who aren't buying the Feature Set, it's not too subtle, it's wrong, and it should be fixed.

It definitely need fixing for sure. It certainly makes one think they're purchasing the datasets and features when purchasing the library. I saw the asterisks about Logos Now, but it makes it look like one is still purchasing the featured on top of renting them in Logos Now. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 13312
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:18 PM

Nathan Parker:
It definitely need fixing for sure.

In another post: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129488/841426.aspx#841426 

Glenn Airoldi:
We're actively working on improving this part of the page for Logos Now members.  It's confusing as laid out, and we apologize.  You should see the updates live shortly.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:27 PM

Mark Barnes:

Nathan Parker:
It definitely need fixing for sure.

In another post: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129488/841426.aspx#841426 

Glenn Airoldi:
We're actively working on improving this part of the page for Logos Now members.  It's confusing as laid out, and we apologize.  You should see the updates live shortly.

Great. Thanks for the update. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 272
LogosEmployee
Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:52 PM

Looking at what is actually added to your cart per Mark's suggestion is the easiest way to get a definitive answer to "What am I purchasing?".

In your cart, Logos 7 Library skus will be clearly named as libraries, and Logos 7 Feature Set skus will be clearly named as feature sets.

If it's not in your cart, you're not purchasing it, nor are you being charged for it.

The grey box that explains what is being included in a base package is being updated to reflect what is included in your purchase.  This is an important nuance, given that Logos Now members are not required to purchase a base package, and we're not adding the feature set skus to cart for Logos Now members from these pages to ensure people don't pay for something they already "lease" access to.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:55 PM

Glenn Airoldi:

Looking at what is actually added to your cart per Mark's suggestion is the easiest way to get a definitive answer to "What am I purchasing?".

In your cart, Logos 7 Library skus will be clearly named as libraries, and Logos 7 Feature Set skus will be clearly named as feature sets.

If it's not in your cart, you're not purchasing it, nor are you being charged for it.

The grey box that explains what is being included in a base package is being updated to reflect what is included in your purchase.  This is an important nuance, given that Logos Now members are not required to purchase a base package, and we're not adding the feature set skus to cart for Logos Now members from these pages to ensure people don't pay for something they already "lease" access to.

Problem is when I added it to the cart then visited the cart, the cart was empty. I couldn't get the cart working reliably enough to see what I was getting. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 4877
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 4:56 PM

I have been saying for a long time this business had a real problem with being able to communicate with its customers in a truthful manner. This just highlights that problem again. Internally the left hand doesn't seem to be communicating with the right hand and we end up with this sort of debacle. The leadership of this company need to start actually listening to its customers and sorting out its internal communications so that what actually ends up being communicared to customer's is clear, accurate and beyond reproof.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 5:00 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

I have been saying for a long time this business had a real problem with being able to communicate with its customers in a truthful manner. This just highlights that problem again. Internally the left hand doesn't seem to be communicating with the right hand and we end up with this sort of debacle. The leadership of this company need to start actually listening to its customers and sorting out its internal communications so that what actually ends up being communicared to customer's is clear, accurate and beyond reproof.

I agree. By the way, if Logos is interested in hiring a remote consultant to improve communications, I'd be happy to assist. I'll work for free books. :-)

It sounds humorous, but in a way I'm serious. I've had to work to improve communications for other companies, so I'd be happy to bring it to Faithlife. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

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