Why purchase Full Feature Set instead of joining Logos Now?

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This post has 28 Replies | 6 Followers

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Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Aug 22 2016 7:47 PM

I typically prefer purchasing instead of leasing software, but Faithlife has Logos Now and the Full Feature Set so priced that I don't see the advantage of owning the feature set.

LN is $89.99 (though it rises to $99.99 after the first year). To buy the Full Feature Set will cost $172.01, unless you buy a base library. I doubt that I'll buy another base library, but I could change my mind. It looks as though Logos is now on a two-year release schedule, so leasing the feature set would be a total of $189.98, $18 more dollars than staying abreast of Logos feature updates and perhaps some discounts.

1) If one is not an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set instead of simply joining LN?

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

Oh well, I'm going to bed. I have Logos new release brain fog. Wink

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 22 2016 8:17 PM

If you LN member and never buy feature set then it would be hard to give up LN because after few releases the price of set would be very high because it accumulates from previous editions. 

I would buy (in few months) set because I dont want to be dependent on LN. I personally dont like subscription model, and currently subscribed because of free books I got when I purchased LN + 5% on upgrade. But, in the near feature, if I dont see deals like this, I would like to see for myself an easy option to cancel subscription without loosing major features. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 895
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 22 2016 8:18 PM

On the flip side to your first question: If you look at Logos 7 and say "That is all I ever need," then why would you rent, when you could have it forever for the cost of two years (plus eighteen dollars)? 

On the second question, you shouldn't unless you think you may drop your membership.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 2:40 AM

Bill Moore:
2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

You shouldn't until you are too old and senile to be able to study the bible any more.

At that point it won't matter what the cost is to purchase the upgrade - you might as well spend the money because I am told you cannot take it with you.

Posts 3672
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 3:11 AM

Wild Eagle:
If you LN member and never buy feature set then it would be hard to give up LN because after few releases the price of set would be very high because it accumulates from previous editions. 

Good point, very good point indeed. Right now I own L6 so I would only pay to upgrade to L7 if I purchased the full feature set package. But if I go with LN instead and then change my mind when L8 comes around, I would then have to pay for both L7 and L8 features on top of what I spent on LN in the interim. I would think that a 5% discount from being a LN subscriber would not come close to compensating for that. I have also noted that only the yearly option appears now for LN. It seemed to me that one could do it for a month only before. Perhaps they are hiding this option now (much like they hid the core engine for L6 for a while to "encourage" people to buy a package instead). If there is only an annual option available, then there is also the problem of timing: if I subscribe for a year to LN but then decide, after using it for 6 months, that it was a bad idea and that I should get the full feature set, I would still pay for LN another 6 months. Or is it not so?

Moreover, I have not subscribed to LN so far, although I have been tempted to. One of the questions on my mind is how having access early to features affect one's work. I know that when L6 released -- and this was before the subscription model -- a number of features were incomplete. I assume, hope, that the fact that LN has been running for a while means that L7 features are more "mature" than were those of L6 when it was first released.

If that is the case (is it?) then one has to wonder whether early L8 features are also incomplete and in their first stages their data less reliable. For personal Bible study it may not be that great of a problem, as one does not depend on the program providing comprehensive data. For those who use Logos for research, however, it is more important that functions perform largely as they promise (not expecting perfection of course). Otherwise, it can result in erroneous conclusions or time loss. Certainly fiddling around with features that are still somewhat "beta" is not something that all of us can afford to do. So then, this makes me hesitant to go with LN and have early access to developing features. The ownership track seems to come at the end of the process of maturation of these features. 

Perhaps LN subscribers can offer their feedback on this. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 3:14 AM

Bill Moore:

1) If one is not an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set instead of simply joining LN?

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

Faithlife's preference would seem to be that everyone becomes members, so they have priced things accordingly. They want us to conclude "there's no point buying the set, I'll just join Logos Now".

There are two benefits for Faithlife:

  1. They get a more constant income stream.
  2. They lock us in. If you buy the Feature set, you could skip L8 and L9 and keep what you have and be reasonably happy. With membership, you'll have to keep paying or lose features. Faithlife are banking on people not being willing to do that, and therefore fewer people will skip L8 and L9.

So to answer your question. You should purchase the Full Feature set instead of joining Logos Now if you're intending to skip L8 and L9, etc., but want to keep using Logos 7 for years to come. Otherwise, you should become a member.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 3:17 AM

Francis:
Perhaps LN subscribers can offer their feedback on this.

I don't think you need to worry too much. Some tools have improved with more features during Logos Now (e.g. concordance). Some datasets have been expanded. But there have been no major examples of datasets/tools becoming more accurate. That's not to say the datasets will be perfect, but I don't think they've been any worse than those in 'normal' Logos.

Posts 3672
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 3:22 AM

Mark Barnes:
I don't think they've been any worse than those in 'normal' Logos.

LOL

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 5:57 AM

I think this thread goes back to when LN was released ... would you get credit if you got off the LN train?

My current impression is 'no'.  The L7 FFS is about $180 if you add over-top L6.  LN or not.

That's the first problem; LN is not rent-to-own (like Amazon Prime similarly).  The decision stands alone.

The second problem, is when you step off the LN train.  The FFS price-tag.  Buy a package, no problem.

But no package, then you face fairly significant price-inflation.  For me, having crossgraded from L4, and then adding FFS, the inflation is about 50-60% for a 6 yr period. Uncompounded, maybe 8% per year.

Then, add Francis' point .... shear sticker shock to catch up ... no pick and choose.  You really can't get off the LN train for free .... without backtracking to a Libby-type world (but called 'Logos). Or buy a package.


Posts 928
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 6:05 AM

Denise:

I think this thread goes back to when LN was released ... would you get credit if you got off the LN train?

My current impression is 'no'.  The L7 FFS is about $180 if you add over-top L6.  LN or not.

That's the first problem; LN is not rent-to-own (like Amazon Prime similarly).  The decision stands alone.

The second problem, is when you step off the LN train.  The FFS price-tag.  Buy a package, no problem.

But no package, then you face fairly significant price-inflation.  For me, having crossgraded from L4, and then adding FFS, the inflation is about 50-60% for a 6 yr period. Uncompounded, maybe 8% per year.

Then, add Francis' point .... shear sticker shock to catch up ... no pick and choose.  You really can't get off the LN train for free .... without backtracking to a Libby-type world (but called 'Logos). Or buy a package.

Even if you buy a package, if I understand the way it is now done, the feature set is separated from the package, that feature package may go up fairly substantially if you skip an upgrade.

I don't see myself skipping an upgrade, though, if the past is an indication of the future. Still, I'm not sure I want to get "locked in" to Logos Now.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 176
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 8:15 AM

I wonder if one answer to the question why a feature set and not Logos Now is the following: Logos always gets bigger and takes up more space.  If you live in a poorer part of the world, unless you have a high spec machine, Logos will always tend to the slow side.  Purchasing the latest version of logos with your latest computer works well and then buying the next version when you update your computer is the best way to ensure you don't get sluggish performance.  

Posts 928
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 9:10 AM

I'm very tempted to do LN, but the thought of skipping several upgrades of ownership and then paying a cumulative price gives me pause, particularly when I could own L7 full feature set for $129 with the purchase of L7 Gold, which has some resources that I would like to have.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 9:15 AM

Paul Chatfield:

 Purchasing the latest version of logos with your latest computer works well and then buying the next version when you update your computer is the best way to ensure you don't get sluggish performance.  

Unlike with OS (Operating Systems), latest version of Logos does not really slows down computer. It was so when update was from L3 (libronix) to L4. But this is not the case anymore. For instance, my L7 works noticeable faster than L6. I think for older systems L7 will operate much faster then L4 if you have compatible OS. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 67
Bryce Hufford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 9:37 AM

My thoughts on why you might consider it;

1) there is no guarantee that LN will stay priced at $89/yr (or $99/yr after first year)

2) while the Logos 6 to Logos 7 was on a 2 year cycle, there is no guarantee that things will continue on that frequency.  The counterpoint of course is that with the launch of LN, it seems to me that there may be more of a continuum of improvement cycle rather than a definitive you get x features in Logos 7 and you will get y features in Logos 8.  I think it will be very interesting to see what new "features and tweaks" will become exclusive only for LN members vs what will be included in free software updates (7.1, 7.2, etc.) for those that choose to purchase the tools rather than rent.  In my opinion, this may become a key marketing strategy to persuade people to subscribe to LN.  

3) agree with previous poster that if you rent via LN, the hurdle to buy in the future becomes higher

I typically like to buy rather than rent, so I am assessing the pros and cons before I decide.  I think Faithlife has done a pretty good job hitting the sweet spot in terms of pricing and features of LN.  If I knew the rates were locked in at no more than $100/yr, I would probably just subscribe to LN.  I've used other software that has an annual fee, but has a nice guarantee that your original rate is locked in and will never go up. 

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 9:44 AM

Bill Moore:

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

I am a Logos Now member and I am buying the Full Feature Set simply so at the launch of Logos 7 I own the feature sets. The ownership model is one Faithlife said they will keep. I do both so I can own the features and still get the new features NOW. I will do the same thing with Logos 8, 9, 10 and so on.

Posts 928
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 10:11 AM

Bryce Hufford:

My thoughts on why you might consider it;

1) there is no guarantee that LN will stay priced at $89/yr (or $99/yr after first year)

2) while the Logos 6 to Logos 7 was on a 2 year cycle, there is no guarantee that things will continue on that frequency.  The counterpoint of course is that with the launch of LN, it seems to me that there may be more of a continuum of improvement cycle rather than a definitive you get x features in Logos 7 and you will get y features in Logos 8.  I think it will be very interesting to see what new "features and tweaks" will become exclusive only for LN members vs what will be included in free software updates (7.1, 7.2, etc.) for those that choose to purchase the tools rather than rent.  In my opinion, this may become a key marketing strategy to persuade people to subscribe to LN.  

3) agree with previous poster that if you rent via LN, the hurdle to buy in the future becomes higher

I typically like to buy rather than rent, so I am assessing the pros and cons before I decide.  I think Faithlife has done a pretty good job hitting the sweet spot in terms of pricing and features of LN.  If I knew the rates were locked in at no more than $100/yr, I would probably just subscribe to LN.  I've used other software that has an annual fee, but has a nice guarantee that your original rate is locked in and will never go up. 


It would be great to get some assurance that LN membership would remain at $100/year for a few years.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 617
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 1:09 PM

Mark Barnes:

You should purchase the Full Feature set instead of joining Logos Now if you're intending to skip L8 and L9, etc., but want to keep using Logos 7 for years to come. Otherwise, you should become a member.

Mark, you said elsewhere that you had purchased the FFS. Can I ask what your thinking is? I assume you're not planning on skipping L8 and 9 and are already a LN member! 

Personally, while I do like to own rather than subscribe, subscription seems to be the way things are heading (eg there seems little point buying a box-set if I'm already subscribing to netflix). What might push me over the edge towards subscription is that even if I pay more to own the features, I'd still be missing out on LN features like lemma in passage

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 2:12 PM

Stephen Steele:
Mark, you said elsewhere that you had purchased the FFS. Can I ask what your thinking is? I assume you're not planning on skipping L8 and 9 and are already a LN member! 

I did say that, and at the time I had emailed a sales rep asking to buy Baptist Platinum and the FFS. At the time I ordered FFS, partly because I thought it included a MobileEd course that you didn't get with Logos Now, and partly because I'd rather own, not rent.

However, Bradley later clarified that Logos Now will include the same course, so I changed my mind. I can always get FFS in the future should I want to cancel Now. Thankfully my sales rep had emailed to confirm payment plan details whilst this was going on, so I was able to amend my order and remove the FFS.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2016 5:22 PM

Bill Moore:
It would be great to get some assurance that LN membership would remain at $100/year for a few years.

While I can't make any promises, we currently don't have any plans to change the price of Logos Now. It would be unwise for us to change the price very often. It's likely to stay at $100 for a while.

Now, if you want to lock in your price, you're welcome to pre-purchase additional years at the $89.99 price. You can buy as many years as you want, but you'll have to do one per transaction, since we don't currently support editing the unit count for Logos Now. Each additional year you purchase will get added to the end of your current year.

Posts 928
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2016 8:07 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Bill Moore:
It would be great to get some assurance that LN membership would remain at $100/year for a few years.

While I can't make any promises, we currently don't have any plans to change the price of Logos Now. It would be unwise for us to change the price very often. It's likely to stay at $100 for a while.

Now, if you want to lock in your price, you're welcome to pre-purchase additional years at the $89.99 price. You can buy as many years as you want, but you'll have to do one per transaction, since we don't currently support editing the unit count for Logos Now. Each additional year you purchase will get added to the end of your current year.

Thanks, Phil. The $10 isn't as big an issue as wondering about being able to continue paying the Logos Now membership subscription when I'm no longer able to do vocational ministry and live on an anticipated tighter budget. I'm 61 and, God willing, plan to be in vocational ministry for another fifteen years. If I join Logos Now and stop buying the full feature sets, the dynamic pricing for, say, Logos 14 may be unaffordable.

Then again, I suspect that subscription software will be widespread in a few years industry wide, with the big two-year upgrades giving way to smaller upgrades every few weeks, much like what Logos Now is. I may just go ahead and join Logos Now.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

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