Logos 7 FREE engine

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Posts 2
Scott Simmons | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 1 2016 1:47 PM

I think your feeling  is entirely correct.  I bought Logos 2.0 when I was in seminary (somewhere around 1995). I spent over $200 when we were dirt poor partly because I was promised free upgrades. I was told I'd only have to pay for books the rest of my life. That lasted a while, until they decided to call some of their new features "data sets" and charge for them. And even with the core engine "update," you have to wait 6 months to get it.  

To make matters worse, I was promised that Logos 2.0 would have the best original language searching on the market. When it was released, it wasn't anywhere near as good as what Accordance for the Mac was offering then. It was riddled with errors due to the cumbersome way you had to type in features of grammar.  Now, some 20 years later, that Accordance software from the 90's is STILL far better than what Logos offers--it had a graphical interface that was astoundingly good. If Logos ever does match Accordance, likely they will charge for it. I will still will have to pay for what was promised me in 1995 

Posts 1
Daniel Dicke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 2:31 PM

I've spent over $1,800! And don't know how to use any of it!  I'm sitting with Logos 6 Gold and the Church History pack and all I do is read the Bible which I could do without spending $1,800+!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 2:41 PM

Daniel Dicke:

I've spent over $1,800! And don't know how to use any of it!  I'm sitting with Logos 6 Gold and the Church History pack and all I do is read the Bible which I could do without spending $1,800+!

Welcome to the forums 

If,you would like help in working out how to use the software please start a new thread and explain what you would lIke to be able to do / what you are struggling with 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 4:49 PM

Daniel Dicke:

I've spent over $1,800! And don't know how to use any of it!  I'm sitting with Logos 6 Gold and the Church History pack and all I do is read the Bible which I could do without spending $1,800+!

Your Logos 6 base package includes QuickStart for Logos Bible Software v.6. If you haven't watched those videos, they will introduce you to different aspects of the program.

The Logos Pro team also offers a free How to Study the Bible with Logos challenge, which demonstrates key features of the program. You can sign up for that bible study challenge via email.

LT261 is the Logos 6 version of the 30-day challenge, and they gave out a coupon code to download the course for free when you completed the 30-day challenge. Since then, the Logos Pro team created a 10-day challenge, which I hadn't taken, but I hear it includes the same training as the 30-day challenge.

There's also a Logos 7 version of How to Study the Bible with Logos, which hasn't shipped yet, but will download automatically to anyone who bought an L7 base package or L7 feature set.

When you're finished with these, there are even more training resources available, and people can answer specific questions here on the forum. Just start a new thread with your question, as Graham suggested!

Posts 29
jmcbade | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2016 5:38 PM

But as I said, I am happy with the datasets I already own.

Now if there was some improvement in the core such as giving us back fuzzy search in the application version, I might consider upgrading, but not the feature alone for $149.00. And in the "Starter" you don't get the sermon editor either.

I have been asking for YEARS for a Japanese version of the Bible and hopefully with furigana over the kanji, but it's never happened.

I am happy with Logos for what I use it for now but I feel it's expensive for me as a missionary to justify upgrading at this time.  

So again my point is, if 6.14 is "basically the same app", why upgrade?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2016 9:53 PM

jmcbade:
... such as giving us back fuzzy search

New implementation of Fuzzy Bible Search in Logos 7.2 is Online Only that needs Now membership or appropriate Cloud subscription plus internet connection to Faithlife servers.

jmcbade:
So again my point is, if 6.14 is "basically the same app", why upgrade?

One option is waiting for the free Logos 7 Core Engine release in Feb 2017 with license restrictions removed so can use a number of new features. Without new 7 feature licenses, Logos 7.# behaves basically the same as 6.14 (albeit Logos 7.3 Beta has search engine improvement, which has potential for inclusion in Logos 7 free engine).

Thankful for Now membership so already have access to all the Logos features; timeline shows features => https://www.logos.com/now-timeline

Thread => What's Included in Logos 7 lists many items with links to threads discussions. For example, the Sentence Type dataset enables one way to search for questions by Jesus to his disciples.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 268
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2016 8:21 PM

I'm a bit confused by all the different options that Logos offers. I am subscribed to Logos 7, so I have the latest Logos version. However, I'm preparing a workshop for new Logos users and I would like to know what exactly they will get in the following case.

In February, when 'Logos 7' becomes free, what exactly will people get for free?

- the core engine: what exactly does that include?
- starters features set? what exactly does that include?

- full features set? what exactly does that include?

- anything else? what exactly would that include?

Posts 1810
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2016 10:36 PM

Michel Pauw:

In February, when 'Logos 7' becomes free, what exactly will people get for free?

- the core engine: what exactly does that include?
- starters features set? what exactly does that include?

- full features set? what exactly does that include?

- anything else? what exactly would that include?

We haven't yet finalized or announced what will be included in the free version of Logos 7, but you can see a breakdown on the other levels of feature sets in this comparison chart.

Posts 58
Simon Smailus | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 9 2016 3:03 AM

I've been using Logos since the Libronix days. Each year the price increases and I now purchase very very little. People tend to think because the company is selling Christian resources that there should be little profit involved. Logos is a business and therefore part of its objective is profit. I've been part of many "Lifetime" memberships, but these don't make money so new and innovative ways need to be found for profit. Logos needs to do the same thing. Logos Now, datasets, packages, are all ways to make more money and that is why they exist. Let's be honest if logos made the software free and you only paid for resources development would grind to a halt. The question is how much profit? This only Logos will know and will be determined by their values (ie if they have a value of enabling Christians in studying the Bible, then they may offer things for less cost). Logos obviously values those in academics by offering a discount, but so does Apple because what people use when learning they are likely to continue to use. I cannot find anything similar for those in full time ministry, perhaps someone could enlighten me? (Accordance does offer ministry discounts)

In the end my investment in Logos ground to a halt. Resources are just out of my price range. As an end user I may only want a £15 resource, but it is only available in a £300 package. This sounded the death knell for me. If Logos was looking to help me study the Bible they would not force me to purchase lots of books I didn't want to get the one I did. Imagine going into a bookshop and wanting to purchase a Bible and they said you can only buy this if you by strongs, a bible dictionary and a Bible survey! Not they way to go if you want people to buy from your shop. Then the emails started with amazing discounts, not £800 but £500. Really? These come nearly every month. My annual budget isn't even that much.

I suppose that if the software was so frustratingly slow, I might look at a subscription. I have a 2015 iMac i7 with 24GB RAM. I can open Photoshop faster than Logos. I also have Accordance and can open Accordance find what I'm looking for and exit, whilst Logos is still saying, "Signing in..., Preparing your Library... Synchronizing... I had also hoped to be able to use Logos at church, but at church I need to turn of my internet so that my device doesn't get any interruptions. Logos without an internet connection is the same as the kindle. Other functionality does not work.

All these factors caused me to re-evaluate Logos. Do I really need it? No. With the amount of money Logos costs I could create a well stocked library that the whole church could use. Many people could benefit from one book, not just me. What I really needed was a way to search the bible and almost any Bible application will do so. I've also found that reading a book and making notes while I read enhances my retention. Writing things down by hand enhances my retention. This can then be scanned or typed in to my computer if needed.

I am now happy to use Logos as a kindle. I read the resources I have in it. Make notes on what I read. The rest I do not need and rarely use. I still purchase resources, but only when they're heavily discounted. I also use Olive Tree, Accordance and Tecarta (iOS/Android only) as they are cheaper by comparison and I'm able to buy the individual resources I need that are locked in a Logos package. As a case in point the Common English bible came up in Logos today for £10.99 and in Olive Tree for £2.99. That's quite a difference for the same resource.

Posts 2
Scott Simmons | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 9 2016 8:59 AM

Well said. I would just add that other companies do charge for books only and provide the software for free (Kindle, etc.). They develop new software features to attract new customers. They even curate content (like X-Ray) and offer it for free. I was promised in 1995 searching capabilities that still have not been realized. The features that seem to come close to helping the original language search capabilities of Logos I have to pay for, it seems.

I have no beef with Logos charging for datasets that function like books that add content to the software. I just wish they lived up to the promise they made for me in 1995. So I won't spend any more money on logos products until they offered what they promised me in 1995.

If Logos produced a speedy software package (and honored their promise) I would likely buy a lot more resources from Logos.  They would continue to make money off me. I mean, their website is faster than their software.  Now that Accordance is available for Windows, I plan to switch. I'll use Logos to read resources I have here, and I'll do everything else with Accordance.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 9 2016 9:10 AM

Simon smailus:
I am now happy to use Logos as a kindle. I read the resources I have in it. Make notes on what I read. The rest I do not need and rarely use. I still purchase resources, but only when they're heavily discounted.

It sounds like you've done a solid analysis of what meets your needs. That is a major step in being the happy (or resigned) user of any software. I do hope that you periodically try features potentially useful to you for speed and internet requirements as these are always changing and may change your analysis over time.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 9 2016 11:32 PM

Simon smailus:
Logos without an internet connection is the same as the kindle. Other functionality does not work.

Personally use a MacBook Air offline in a weekly Bible study so am Thankful for many Logos items are usable offline: e.g. Factbook, Passage Guide, Topic Guide,.... Logos wiki has => Online Only list of features that are not usable offline. Caveat: tend to turn off Wi-Fi followed by opening for offline use before removing power adapter (can take awhile for my collection cache to refresh before Logos 7 is ready for offline use).

Scott Simmons:
The features that seem to come close to helping the original language search capabilities of Logos I have to pay for, it seems

Thankful for visual filter highlighting that works offline or online so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression plus add inductive precept (visually mark themes):

LEB has inductive precept highlights plus blue text for Old Testament quote or allusion.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 58
Simon Smailus | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 2:45 AM

MJ. Smith:

It sounds like you've done a solid analysis of what meets your needs. That is a major step in being the happy (or resigned) user of any software. I do hope that you periodically try features potentially useful to you for speed and internet requirements as these are always changing and may change your analysis over time.

I think my philosophy of software is different to most people. I want software to do what I want. I have very clear workflows and ideas. I do not need the software manufacturer to try and shoehorn me into their ideology. Let me give you and example. If I list a library of all available books for you to choose which you want I am allowing you to flow with your own thinking. If I only sell you a package of books that I select, then I am exerting influence on you. This is fine if I place myself under someone's tutelage, but I do not allow this from people I do not know, nor software manufacturers.

I do not have time to do everything. So I must choose what I spend my time doing. This includes the books I read, programmes I watch and software I use. More books is not always better. How many resources do most people have in Logos and what percentage have they actually read and digested? Information overload has made us a world of scanners and skimmers and the art of reading is lost. Electronic searches can easily strip the context from the text focused on and too many books can make you lose sight of the Scriptures.

I tend to use what I want not what is available. Not just in terms of resources but also in functionality.

Posts 58
Simon Smailus | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 2:49 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Personally use a MacBook Air offline in a weekly Bible study so am Thankful for many Logos items are usable offline: e.g. Factbook, Passage Guide, Topic Guide,.... Logos wiki has => Online Only list of features that are not usable offline. Caveat: tend to turn off Wi-Fi followed by opening for offline use before removing power adapter (can take awhile for my collection cache to refresh before Logos 7 is ready for offline use).

I find the macair has too limited a screen angle for any real use in teaching or preaching. Most lecturns are angled and the macair screen does not go back far enough create a good viewing angle. The iPad is also lighter has better battery life and is generally my device of choice. It's just the Logos on iOS without internet is no better than the kindle. Searches et al doe not work.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 3:01 AM

Simon smailus:
Searches et al doe not work.

Some searches do work offline but are limited to resources downloaded to the device.

If you are having issues with iOS searching when offline and would like to explore that further please start a new thread in the iOS apps forum - https://community.logos.com/forums/74.aspx 

Posts 58
Simon Smailus | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 3:46 AM

Graham Criddle:

Some searches do work offline but are limited to resources downloaded to the device.

Many thanks! That is useful to know.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 6:36 AM

Simon Smailus:
How many resources do most people have in Logos and what percentage have they actually read and digested?

If you have a paper to write for seminary, do you want to walk into a Library with 100 books? 1000 books? 100,000? 

Many people use Logos in different ways. I can appreciate the desire to target the books you want to purchase (although it is a more expensive way to acquire books). My Logos acquisitions have diminished in recent years as I am not currently preaching or writing term papers, but the SINGLE feature I like about Logos is that it is a search LIBRARY. The ability to search for a topic (or word) and find hits across my 6,000 books is priceless. For me it isn't about reading every book. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 7:38 AM

Simon Smailus:
I tend to use what I want not what is available. Not just in terms of resources but also in functionality.

Thankful can try (test) many features and resources so can keep using what is helpful. My favorite feature is visual filter highlighting.

Simon Smailus:
How many resources do most people have in Logos and what percentage have they actually read and digested?

Related question is how many interesting articles were found in a variety of resource bundles ? Searching Heading and Large text for topical keywords does find many articles: e.g. search for frankincense finds relatively few resources having articles.

Recently used search:

frankincense WITHIN {Milestone <Mt2>}

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 58
Simon Smailus | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 9:41 AM

alabama24:

Simon Smailus:
How many resources do most people have in Logos and what percentage have they actually read and digested?

If you have a paper to write for seminary, do you want to walk into a Library with 100 books? 1000 books? 100,000? 

Many people use Logos in different ways. I can appreciate the desire to target the books you want to purchase (although it is a more expensive way to acquire books). My Logos acquisitions have diminished in recent years as I am not currently preaching or writing term papers, but the SINGLE feature I like about Logos is that it is a search LIBRARY. The ability to search for a topic (or word) and find hits across my 6,000 books is priceless. For me it isn't about reading every book. 

You make a really good point. I would say for academics Logos is probably a wonderful treasure chest!

I would draw a distinction between quantity and quality. Just because a library has more books doesn't mean it is more resource rich. Not all books are equal. Adler and Van Doren's excellent book, "How to read a book" (https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Read-Book-Intelligent-Touchstone/dp/0671212095), makes the point that we must discover if a book should be read in the first place. There are many that shouldn't! If we are going to give time to reading a book we should make sure it is worth reading. It is too easy to publish text these days that the quality begins to suffer. I have found it easy to acquire a library, but acquiring a good library is not so easy. Over time my books are separated in to read once given away and books that are keepers and I delve into again and again.

This applies equally to the ability to search. One would be better off searching two resources of quality authors who really understood the subject and are known in their community as quality guys, than diluting the quality with lesser works that add little to the discussion. In fact searching for a word across 6,000 books may well begin to hide the wheat in the chaff. Not a desirable place to be!

All this makes me realise all the more that I believe increasing a library with collections, not to be a route I would personally go down. I think it better to purchase well chosen books in the area of study needed. Or in my case for the building up of the church and personal growth in God. Let's face it, even if you do have 6,000 books, it is doubtful you will ever read them in your lifetime. You still need to make the choice about which books you are actually going to invest your time in, and that number is going to be much much less. In the end I repeat that I think quality is to be preferred over quantity in most contexts.

Posts 353
Virgil Buttram | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 10 2016 10:14 AM

alabama24:

Many people use Logos in different ways. I can appreciate the desire to target the books you want to purchase (although it is a more expensive way to acquire books). My Logos acquisitions have diminished in recent years as I am not currently preaching or writing term papers, but the SINGLE feature I like about Logos is that it is a search LIBRARY. The ability to search for a topic (or word) and find hits across my 6,000 books is priceless. For me it isn't about reading every book. 

Quoting myself from another thread:

Virgil Buttram:

... there are two types of libraries: reading libraries, and reference libraries. Faithlife promotes Logos as a reference library to support reading and study of the reading library subset of your Logos library.

So those who perceive no need for a personal reference library are not going to perceive Logos' value as highly as those of us who do. It's not a question of right or wrong, it's a question of de gustibus non est disputandum.

On the other hand, reading a Logos edition book is more functional than reading the same book in Kindle, or even as a generic epub, because of the linking, tagging, indexing, etc. that Logos includes. If that extra functionality is of no benefit to someone... then Logos really isn't for them.

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