What is the best font?

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Daniel Arnott | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 5 2010 12:04 PM

Just fired up Logos on my new laptop and I have to say the text seems more blurred than before. The resolutions is 1368x768.

Any thoughts on what the best/clearest font is? Anyone else having this problem?


Dan

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 1:49 PM

blurred? Could you post a screen shot?

From the way you word it, it doesn't sound like a font problem.

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 7:16 AM

Daniel Arnott:
Any thoughts on what the best/clearest font is?

This is actually a multi-million dollar question for companies like Adobe and Microsoft.  I haven't brushed up on this for a while, but a while back I read a lot of design textbooks dealing especially with readability on different media (computer screen, TVs, billboards, etc).  Most generally accepted as best fonts for reading on computer screens is Georgia, Verdana and Trebuchet.

Great article here: http://tinyurl.com/6r2drc

also, Bob Pritchitt commented that a much improved Reading Panel is in the works similar to the concept of http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/


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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 10:13 AM

Logos did update the font it uses as the default font and some other users complained that doing so made the font seem fuzzy. I don't think there is much Logos can do about that.

Probably those who need a different font would have to try a few from the Program Settings until they find one that works. The downside is that Logos has worked specifically with the Default font producer to get special characters in the font that Logos uses. Those might be absent from other fonts. My suggestion is to use an open type font that has an extended character set. Some of the basic fonts supplied with Windows would be a good starting point.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mike Waugh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 10:21 AM

I changed my default to Cambria. It seems to work better with my eyes, and I haven't run into any issues with it - at least, not yet. 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 10:49 AM

I changed my default to Global User Interface, Default Text Size 120%, Program Scaling 100% on my 17inch monitor. It seems much better on my eyes but i hate reading on a screen, my eyes still hurts though there are some improvements!

I like this font a lot and would recommend it. Screen reading is not my cup of tea and i am amazed at how folks can read a whole book in their Logos library. I am not sure what the secret to this is or perhaps some of these books in their Logos Library have only a few pagesStick out tongue Big Smile.

 

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

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Bill Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 12:40 PM

I tried Global User Interface and I almost like it. I am pretty much using Adobe Caslon Pro 100% default text size and 90% scaling on my 17-inch laptop. Everything looked good on my laptop until Logos tweaked the hinting in the default font (I think that is what the post about ti said had been done). Anyway, after the font tweaking, the default looked fuzzy on my laptop. It looks great on my desktop (20-inch widscreen, default font 100% text size, 100% scaling), though. So, I am thinking my graphics card in my laptop (integrated Intel - yuck!) is the problem.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 1:00 PM

William J Cook:
I am pretty much using Adobe Caslon Pro 100% default text size and 90% scaling on my 17-inch laptop.

Could not find this font in Logos 4 to try out. Its not an option in V4.

Ted

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 2:01 PM

Ted Hans:
Could not find this font in Logos 4 to try out. Its not an option in V4.

Yep. I have it but I'm sure I got it with an Adobe product, not in the course of owning Windows or Windows products. It's one of those you have to buy.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 2:07 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Ted Hans:
Could not find this font in Logos 4 to try out. Its not an option in V4.

Yep. I have it but I'm sure I got it with an Adobe product, not in the course of owning Windows or Windows products. It's one of those you have to buy.

Thanks Mark for the info.

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

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Amy Leung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 4:10 PM

I think the problem of blurry font in L4 is related to font antialiasing rather than the font itself (possibly the ?font color as well but I'm not sure about it).

Here's a screenshot of the same text in L3 and L4 at 100% font size, and the Mac A14 at a comparable font size.  I don't know what you see but I think the L4 text looks "fluffier" (more white than black), L3 font is somewhere in the middle, and the Mac font appears the thickest and has most contrast (you may have to click into it to see how it's really like).  

Assuming the font colors of L3 and L4 (PC) are the same, then I would think this is a result ?of the way that the font is antialiased, leading to its fluffy look.  Antialiasing makes a font look smoother but takes off a bit of the contrast from the font because of the "fuzzy" edge.  If that it is the case, one solution is to use a "thicker" font.  I'm wondering if the non-antialiased font is not too ugly, then maybe we would benefit from a setting to turn on and off antialiasing?

By the way, I think the Mac fonts are the most readable, and I hope that they are staying this way.  Smile

Posts 449
Bill Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 6:58 PM

Well, I had to go back to some posts by Bob Pritchett. It was the hinting of the default font called Athelas. It is what caused the sharpness at the resolutions we most likel rn on our PC's - 92 dpi. Hinting is very technical - but it is a mathematical set of instructions to the font for specific point sizes. The hint tells the font which pixels to turn on, that is, to acutally distort the font to look better at certain sizes. Anti-aliasing is also mathematical in that it uses subpixel technology to shade the edges of the outsides of fonts to give the appearance of smoothing. But, without proper hinting, anti-aliasing would really make it look worse.

 Bob suggested turning you resolution the 200% to get the effect. Now, when you do, the default font is beautiful. This is because the sytem now has many more pixels to work with and can do a much better job of renedering. And, if we all had the screen real estate to do this and still be productive, it would be fantastic. He also siad that WPF renders differently that the standard Windows system. But he said that WPF 4.0 is to come out soon and hopes that it will improve the font rendering. I hope so, too.

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 8 2010 3:47 AM

You can find a lot on the internet about WPF 4 as it is very close to release, coming out along with the Microsoft development tool Visual Studio 2010. 

The WPF text rendering stack has been completely replaced – a change that brings with it significant improvements to text rendering clarity, configurability, and support for international languages. The new text stack now supports display-optimized character layout, to produce text with comparable sharpness to Win32/GDI text.  Example:

WPF’s new text stack also now supports explicitly selecting aliased, grayscale, or ClearType rendering modes:

The new text stack allows optimizing text hinting and snapping for either animated or static text. Additionally, the new text stack now supports fonts with embedded bitmaps. This allows many East Asian fonts to render with the sharpness to which Win32 users have grown accustomed.

This link seems to be the definitive source on the improvements, with more images. Note it's a software development-oriented blog...

http://blogs.msdn.com/text/archive/2009/08/24/wpf-4-0-text-stack-improvements.aspx

 

Posts 405
Amy Leung | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 8 2010 6:26 AM

I thought this was an issue of text rendering, did not realize that the issue is so complicated.  Stick out tongue

The WPF 4 looks promising.  The "Display formatting" gives something closer to the text on Mac L4 which I am totally happy about.   I hope we get to select between the various rendering options (such as ClearType, Grayscale and Aliased) in L4 when WPF 4 is released. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 8 2010 6:50 AM

Observation: related technical issue on flat panel displays - hardwired for one resolution - choosing screen resolution less than hardwired appears fuzzy.

Related to best font is color combination - foreground and background.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 248
Daniel Arnott | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 9 2010 11:01 AM

Thanks for all the responses! turns out my new LED screen was duff so that's getting sent back! For the record Logos runs a treat on a Core i7, 4 Gig, 7200rpm drive with a 1 Gig dedicated card

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 9 2010 12:05 PM

I've been using "Ebrima", and rather like it.

 

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 7:31 AM

Dan DeVilder:

I've been using "Ebrima", and rather like it.

 

Peace to you, Dan!  *smile*

         Looks like a nice font!        Where did you get it?

...... Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 8:41 AM

Milford Charles Murray:

 

Peace to you, Dan!  *smile*

         Looks like a nice font!        Where did you get it?

...... Mel

[/quote]
Milford Charles Murray:

[quote user="Dan DeVilder"]

I've been using "Ebrima", and rather like it.

I agree it looks nice. I am asking the same question here, where did you get it?

Ted

 

 

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 9:26 AM

Ted Hans:

Milford Charles Murray:

 

Peace to you, Dan!  *smile*

         Looks like a nice font!        Where did you get it?

...... Mel

Milford Charles Murray:

Dan DeVilder:

I've been using "Ebrima", and rather like it.

I agree it looks nice. I am asking the same question here, where did you get it?

Ted

Ebrima is a Microsoft font - http://www.microsoft.com/typography/Fonts/family.aspx?FID=371. I have it but don't know what product it came with--Win 7, Office 12, or something else.

 

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