Over $300 for L7 Features? Really?

Page 8 of 14 (269 items) « First ... < Previous 6 7 8 9 10 Next > ... Last »
This post has 268 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 170
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 10:45 AM

Andrew Zoll:

Andrew,

          Hey, man, I got two questions for you. 1) what are your first three Logos shortcuts? I've never seen those before. I only have the update now, close all, and then my "use every day" books as shortcuts. 2) for those red arrows and circles: did you have to put the screenshot into PP first and use the insert command, or is there an easier, quicker way? Thanks!

🖥 21.5" iMac; 2.7GHZ; 1TB HD🖥

💻 15" Macbook Pro Retina; 2.5GHZ i7; 16 GB; 500GB FSD💻

🎁Logos 6 Diamond; Logos 6 Anglican Diamond; Logos 6 Pentecostal & Charismatic Gold🎁

🌐Logos Now🌐

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 10:46 AM

Too late, You did.
I did the free trial and at that time did not see the value. My library exploded, which if all I am about is bragging rights, was cool. But, in reality, most of my teaching/studying is on a back burner. Even when it's in the forefront, I don't see me coming close to utilizing all the material at my disposal. 
That said and done, it's great to have access to it, when it may be needed, or at least useful. As a result, the vouchers, discounts, etc. are nothing I personally have experienced. So, thank you for bringing that to light. It is one of those things that people should know about. 

Much has been stated over subscription vs. "owning" (although we never "own"). There are benefits to both. I'm hoping Logos will go with a more versatile plan: monthly and annual plans; I'd probably go with the annual plan, my own self. While I have to determine what the actual benefits are, it sounds like subscriptions is a good way to go. Since many like having the option to "own" I don't see that as an issue. Just would hope the every other year upgrades slow down to every 4-5 years, and focus on other items. 

At this point, I do agree that the risk is much easier to take and as you say, "happy to take". 

GregW:

I don't really want to join this conversation, as I'm finding it rather tiresome, but there are a couple of points worth making:

  • One thing nobody ever seems to mention is that there have been at least three occasions, and I think more, in the past year, when LN subscribers have also been given a $10 voucher, which actually significantly reduces the overall cost. That doesn't mean they will continue to do so, but it indicates that Faithlife is very aware of the amount of value members are getting out of the subscription. 
  • The term "beta testing" is one that non-LN subscribers like to use as a way of insulting the product: it is a slanderous term that really should not be bandied about here. The quality of the software that has come out over the past year has, in general, significantly improved with the six-week development cycle. LN users are certainly not beta-testers, and I am increasingly finding it galling to hear people who know little about LN referring to it as such. Most of the new features that have come out have been more robust, better-documented, and better explained than we saw in the past. Granted, there are some issues, but far fewer than there ever used to be. 
  • When I moved from L3 to L4 I was concerned about the Logos business model: I could not see how the syncing, mobile app upgrades, and storage of all my notes could be funded from one-off purchases. That's before considering the cost of constant development to keep up to date with Apple, Microsoft and Android software updates, server OS and security upgrades, etc. I think Logos/Faithlife is acting wisely and responsibly in seeking to protect its future by finding ways of generating recurring revenues from its users. The world is changing, and I have 3-4 disks in the back of my cupboard from previous Bible software packages that went out of business or ceased to be supported. I see the annual LN fee as a protection of my investment, but I get full value out of it on top of that as well. Yes, I'll lose some features if I cease to subscribe. I am happy to take that risk. There's more to life than fretting about my Logos features. 

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 10:57 AM

Dear Graham: Because I couldn't figure out the upgrade - it seems most cannot.
I called sales to get them to help me as I don't have time to spend hours trying to figure out a map through this mess- again.
When 6 came out, I finally had to do the same thing- if you will remember ( if not, go look) the upgrade calculators were coming up with very inconsistent results, just wasn't a good path other than calling sakes.

Did similar this time and, sales manager agreed its a confusing issue.
So, I did as recommended and, don't doubt the sound man was doing his best- basically I got the engine and 2 tools- thats it.

Its NEVER the customers fault when the company isn't clear, concise and attuned to customer needs.
However, in todays world, due to us being a purely consumer society- we have a new business attitude at play, its normalized pretty well ( I deal with it in business daily ), The general attitude is this: We only care about the customer to the point its convenient to us, if the customer is inconvenient, if the customer isn't happy- get rid of them, there are more right down the street.
For every customer lost, there are 20 more to be had.
I do have to admit- it works, in general, it works- until it doesn't .

Circuit City was that way and would openly tell you that was policy- didn't hurt them until it did, then there was no recovery, there are many examples.

Logos is going to do what Logos is going to do- I know that, it matters not if I like it, you like it, anyone likes it- Logos does not need to concern itself with what we like, want, feel, desire etc, it just doesn't .
Logos is at that sweet spot where they can lose customers and it just doesn't matter, 20 will replace them, most who will buy software they use a bit then becomes a forgotten program for the most part.

So, understanding these things, I just called sales and got what they recommended.
Yes, I was hoping for a pleasant surprise, hoping to be excited- didn't happen.

In the long view, its just 200.00 bucks I will eventually make up/forget I spent .

Grin- Logos is just being logos, Tiger cant change its stripes.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 11:01 AM

I'm still surprised by how many people are willing to be "renters" here .
Most of you likely buy your home, buy your car, buy your lawnmower, yet rent software- thats just strange to me.

I can rent the software for years and if i don't want to pay rent anymore- i have absolutely nothing to show for my money- strange to me.
to each his own I guess and , I understand renting when its needed, just not as a way of life.

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 11:03 AM

Canibalism? LOL. that's funny. 

Yes, monthly subscribers generally would pay an extra buck or so a month (or, whatever). I myself would do an annual subscription, just because it's done and over. And, yes, sometimes there's a savings. Personally, I'm not opposed to that. It allows those who can pay annually to do so, but, it doesn't prevent those who have to pinch pennies to be able to subscribe too. A "best of all worlds for all people". 
What it won't do, however, is prevent those who think it should be cheaper. Cheaper meaning free. That will never go away. But, as I point out, this seems to be a much better option, that in my "who gives a rat's behind" opinion of what looks like a golden goose and Logos milking people with an every other upgrade for $300-400 minimum fee. As one points out, a much lower investment. I have paid $2000-3000 to Logos since L-3. Much of that was Community Pricing (scary thought in and of itself, acknowledging that is 60-90% off the Pre-pub and after pub pricing). Now had the subscription idea been available, I would have paid under $800 plus what I have done with CP and other sale items. 
And the biggest plus is, that if it was not working for me, I could more easily walk away from a $100 investment (but, actually a $10 investment, because I would never have invested annually without going the monthly route for the test drive). 


Dwayne Justice:

Batman:

And what would be great is if Logos allowed those who couldn't fork out $100 at once to pay monthly. $7-10 a month does not sound horrible. Or as bad. 

That would be a good option for some, Batman. I would have two caveats to that, though. 1st: if Logos (or any company) set it up the way any smart business would, the month-by-monthers would end up paying more than the yearly subscribers. Let's say Logos buys your idea and splits it down the middle and charges $8.50/mo. That would end up being $102/yr. Not a drastic amount more, but still more. 2nd: it would be a better use of your money to simply budget aside $8.50/mo and not touch it until the yearly bill came due. If you put it somewhere that earns even the tiniest bit of interest like a .01% savings account or something, you even come out on top a little. Pay your $99.99 from the money you have been saving for a year and then go buy yourself a batburger with the $2 difference from the monthly vs yearly fees and your .01% interest you earned over the year. Heck! you might be able to get two batburgers. I don't know how much batburgers run these days. Or perhaps a batburger with a side of robinfries?

Posts 177
Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 11:13 AM

Dwayne Justice:

Andrew,

          Hey, man, I got two questions for you. 1) what are your first three Logos shortcuts? I've never seen those before. I only have the update now, close all, and then my "use every day" books as shortcuts. 

They are in order:

1. Favorites (since, ironically, you cannot create a favorites keyboard shortcut to open favorites)

2. Close all (I just changed the icon to an Omega being the Greek nerd I am)

3. Facilitate Serendipitous Discovery in my Journals Collection (a fun one to keep my reading broad)

Dwayne Justice:

2) for those red arrows and circles: did you have to put the screenshot into PP first and use the insert command, or is there an easier, quicker way? Thanks!

When I take a screenshot on my Mac, I default to opening it in Preview. Once I've done that, I can hit ⌘+⇧+A to open the Markup Toolbar, then make adjustments from there. 

💻MacBook Pro (15-inch 2018) | 2.9 GHz i9 6 core | 32GB RAM | Radeon Pro Vega 20 4 GB Graphics | 1TB SSD💻
💾MacOS Catalina 10.15 Beta (19A4871)💾
🎁Logos 7 Portfolio🎁
⌨Logos 7 Extended Feature Set⌨
🌐Logos Now🌐

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 11:18 AM

I totally hear you, and I do not disagree with any of the points you make. 

I do, however, have to admit, I am liking the subscription idea. Your points are 100% valid, and while I don't agree totally, I definitely dont disagree. Like I said, its very valid. I think that's why I like the dual option idea. I know it sounds like I am a Logos hater. I'm really not. I do hate the constant barrage of advertising and the semingly never ending upgrades. (Even if I choose not to upgrade, it's still a bad taste in my mouth, knowing they just released an upgrade and here comes another and another. It gives the impression they are greedy. Even if it's necessary to survive). 
One person says they like the "rent to own option". I'm ok with that; I'm ok with the subscription. I agree, if we end up not subscribing, it's lost and lost money. But for me, I'm ok with that, because I no longer feel like I'm behind or being "forced" (I know, we aren't forced to upgrade, but it feels that way) to keep current. To me it's a matter of I can try it for several months at about $10 a month, and if I am finding it valuable, I can access it annually for about $100 a year. That works out much better to me than putting up $400+ then finding out several months later, Oh! I dont feel like Ive been taken at $10 as opposed to a constant barrage of $400+ every 2-3 years. But, then if I want to "buy", I can. So, to me its a best of all worlds, and it makes Logos look less greedy.
Until they are forced to have to raise the monthly fees to $15 and the annual fee. 


Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

Dear Graham: Because I couldn't figure out the upgrade - it seems most cannot.
I called sales to get them to help me as I don't have time to spend hours trying to figure out a map through this mess- again.
When 6 came out, I finally had to do the same thing- if you will remember ( if not, go look) the upgrade calculators were coming up with very inconsistent results, just wasn't a good path other than calling sakes.

Did similar this time and, sales manager agreed its a confusing issue.
So, I did as recommended and, don't doubt the sound man was doing his best- basically I got the engine and 2 tools- thats it.

Its NEVER the customers fault when the company isn't clear, concise and attuned to customer needs.
However, in todays world, due to us being a purely consumer society- we have a new business attitude at play, its normalized pretty well ( I deal with it in business daily ), The general attitude is this: We only care about the customer to the point its convenient to us, if the customer is inconvenient, if the customer isn't happy- get rid of them, there are more right down the street.
For every customer lost, there are 20 more to be had.
I do have to admit- it works, in general, it works- until it doesn't .

Circuit City was that way and would openly tell you that was policy- didn't hurt them until it did, then there was no recovery, there are many examples.

Logos is going to do what Logos is going to do- I know that, it matters not if I like it, you like it, anyone likes it- Logos does not need to concern itself with what we like, want, feel, desire etc, it just doesn't .
Logos is at that sweet spot where they can lose customers and it just doesn't matter, 20 will replace them, most who will buy software they use a bit then becomes a forgotten program for the most part.

So, understanding these things, I just called sales and got what they recommended.
Yes, I was hoping for a pleasant surprise, hoping to be excited- didn't happen.

In the long view, its just 200.00 bucks I will eventually make up/forget I spent .

Grin- Logos is just being logos, Tiger cant change its stripes.

Posts 170
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 11:45 AM

Andrew Zoll:

3. Facilitate Serendipitous Discovery in my Journals Collection (a fun one to keep my reading broad)

ummmm....what's that? NVM I'll look it up and see if I can find a video or blog or something on it. I need to use journals a lot for school so that may come in handy.

Andrew Zoll:

When I take a screenshot on my Mac, I default to opening it in Preview. Once I've done that, I can hit ⌘+⇧+A to open the Markup Toolbar, then make adjustments from there. 

Awesome! I'm glad I "ran into you." I have learned quite a bit tonight. Thank you, sir!

🖥 21.5" iMac; 2.7GHZ; 1TB HD🖥

💻 15" Macbook Pro Retina; 2.5GHZ i7; 16 GB; 500GB FSD💻

🎁Logos 6 Diamond; Logos 6 Anglican Diamond; Logos 6 Pentecostal & Charismatic Gold🎁

🌐Logos Now🌐

Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 11:51 AM

Batman:
I can try it for several months at about $10 a month

Dear Batman:

It was recently [this month]announced that Monthly Subscriptions will all terminate  in December.

By 2017 ALL people in Logos Now are now to be Annual .

Sorry

"Robin" ?

Regards, SteveF

Posts 177
Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 12:15 PM

Dwayne Justice:

Andrew Zoll:

3. Facilitate Serendipitous Discovery in my Journals Collection (a fun one to keep my reading broad)

ummmm....what's that? NVM I'll look it up and see if I can find a video or blog or something on it. I need to use journals a lot for school so that may come in handy.

Hahaha! Sorry. It's a command to randomly pull up an article in whatever collection you designate. I created a dynamic collection in the collections tool of "type:journal". Then I typed to command "FSD in Journals"and dragged the resulting auto created command to the tool bar.

Dwayne Justice:

Awesome! I'm glad I "ran into you." I have learned quite a bit tonight. Thank you, sir!

My pleasure! I live to teach! Feel free to message me on Faithlife if you want to chat more. Haha! Nice edits!

💻MacBook Pro (15-inch 2018) | 2.9 GHz i9 6 core | 32GB RAM | Radeon Pro Vega 20 4 GB Graphics | 1TB SSD💻
💾MacOS Catalina 10.15 Beta (19A4871)💾
🎁Logos 7 Portfolio🎁
⌨Logos 7 Extended Feature Set⌨
🌐Logos Now🌐

Posts 57
Christopher Easton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 12:29 PM

You are right. I have just paid off Logos 6. I am still trying to get some of the new features implemented in my daily use. I am glad Logos keeps updating.

I do not have to upgrade my phone every time there is a new model; when I am ready I will upgrade to Logos 7. With my luck it will be right before Logos 8 :)

Posts 22
Shannon Martin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 1:38 PM

Some of the comments here really seam to be from some alternate universe.

Someone compared the price of Logos to Evernote. Evernote is a simple note taking app. The two are not even remotely comparable when it comes to development cost. Also, apps like Evernote, Pandora etc. appeal to huge segments of people. Logos will always have a relatively small user base.

Again people, this is easy. If you don't see the value in an upgrade by all means don't buy it!

It does not make Logos a bad company because they gave us more options.

regarding the cost of Logos Now. I don't think it is sustainable. If I look at other complex software that is on the market such as CRM software, I think Logos now will eventually need to be priced at 30-50 per month. This last statement is of course just my speculation. I don't pretend to have inside knowledge.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go buy a new washing machine. I bought one last year but the terrible company went and stabbed me in the back by selling a new model. What can I do? I am a victim. (sarcasm)

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 2:10 PM

Andrew Zoll:
Bob, I appreciate all you do in this regard. One of the pain points I keep hearing (and I'm sure you do too) is the issue of "IF I stop Logos Now, I'll revert to Logos 4 or 5 or 6 (based on when I started)." Are there future plans to mitigate those concerns by introducing something like a rent-to-own aspect of Logos Now's non-server-based functions? 

We'll keep discussing this... one of the problems is that much of what's in Logos Now (and even more of what's coming) requires server access / huge data storage. If we move to a 'rent to own' model, that doesn't solve our maintenance / support / server costs problem. In fact, it's worse in many ways: instead of Option A (I get your money now) vs Option B (I get your money slowly over time, but it keeps coming in sync with my expenses) that creates a terrible Option C (I get your money slowly, then it stops, but my expenses continue).

I'm sure there's a middle ground where the math works, based on stats of average revenue, lifetime of customer use of servers, etc. Or we could only generate 'ownership' of the offline features... but it's hard to guess and dangerous to guess wrong -- and even owners seem to want core engine upgrades, support for new OS releases, etc. -- forever. (And at already 25 years old -- a pretty old software company! -- with many customers who've been with us 10+ years, it's not hard to see even basic maintenance / support being a significant 'forever' cost.)

Posts 3191
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 2:11 PM

Shannon Martin:

regarding the cost of Logos Now. I don't think it is sustainable. If I look at other complex software that is on the market such as CRM software, I think Logos now will eventually need to be priced at 30-50 per month. This last statement is of course just my speculation. I don't pretend to have inside knowledge.

Maybe my use case is different, but I prefer the ownership model and expect to buy the features. I only subscribed to LN to get access to upcoming features in advance of Logos 7/8.

A reasonable $90 or $100 per year for early access to new features is worth it, but if the annual price exceeds the dynamic cost of the feature set, I expect it would drive people back to upgrading their feature set every year instead of "renting" the features.

Posts 177
Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 2:39 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Andrew Zoll:
Bob, I appreciate all you do in this regard. One of the pain points I keep hearing (and I'm sure you do too) is the issue of "IF I stop Logos Now, I'll revert to Logos 4 or 5 or 6 (based on when I started)." Are there future plans to mitigate those concerns by introducing something like a rent-to-own aspect of Logos Now's non-server-based functions? 

We'll keep discussing this... one of the problems is that much of what's in Logos Now (and even more of what's coming) requires server access / huge data storage. If we move to a 'rent to own' model, that doesn't solve our maintenance / support / server costs problem. In fact, it's worse in many ways: instead of Option A (I get your money now) vs Option B (I get your money slowly over time, but it keeps coming in sync with my expenses) that creates a terrible Option C (I get your money slowly, then it stops, but my expenses continue).

I'm sure there's a middle ground where the math works, based on stats of average revenue, lifetime of customer use of servers, etc. Or we could only generate 'ownership' of the offline features... but it's hard to guess and dangerous to guess wrong -- and even owners seem to want core engine upgrades, support for new OS releases, etc. -- forever. (And at already 25 years old -- a pretty old software company! -- with many customers who've been with us 10+ years, it's not hard to see even basic maintenance / support being a significant 'forever' cost.)

I can respect that- and I can see a large contingent of people who have this same pain point being satisfied by a rent-to-own nature of offline-only features. Maybe this wouldn't satisfy everyone, but it would be a move of undeniable logic [i.e. these tools you've paid for for two years; therefore, you now own them because the costs of maintaining them are essentially (though probably not exactly) zero. These other tools however run on our servers, and therefore to maintain access, you must pay monthly/annually to help with server upkeep, etc.]. It would be a move that is hard to argue with after a period of two years (I think two years is an acceptable amount of time- you'll have to help me understand if the math works out).

Personally, I get so much benefit from Logos Now, that I don't see myself ever cancelling; however, this is one of those mind-gnawing concerns that won't go away. I am invested in the profitability of your company. You've provided excellent tools that keep getting better over time and I'm happy to pay my fair share. And I want to see you thrive for another 25 years. 

With regard for forever costs of support, etc., perhaps it is something that needs to be sold as a service, rather than packaged in with everything else (just like I don't mind paying Apple $3.99/mo. for the privilege of being able to store/sync 200 GB of data on their servers). I personally don't think it's terribly fair for a company to be expected to give something for free for life (but I'm a strict capitalist). So maybe have a feature with sync for $3/mo., Logos Now for $8/mo., and Logos Now w/ Sync for $10/mo.? Is that sustainable? You'll have to run the numbers, but again I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this way) have every interest in seeing you guys succeed. Surely there's a way to communicate this sort of important-to-keep-in-mind stuff to a broad swath of customers...

Anyway, thank you for replying! I've been impressed with all the talent that you have surrounded yourself with and with whom I have interacted. Your people make a great company, especially Wyatt Shedd-Stewart, Phil Gons, and Mark Ward (just a few who've been indispensable to my relationship with FL). 

💻MacBook Pro (15-inch 2018) | 2.9 GHz i9 6 core | 32GB RAM | Radeon Pro Vega 20 4 GB Graphics | 1TB SSD💻
💾MacOS Catalina 10.15 Beta (19A4871)💾
🎁Logos 7 Portfolio🎁
⌨Logos 7 Extended Feature Set⌨
🌐Logos Now🌐

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 2:41 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

I'm still surprised by how many people are willing to be "renters" here .
Most of you likely buy your home, buy your car, buy your lawnmower, yet rent software- thats just strange to me.

I can rent the software for years and if i don't want to pay rent anymore- i have absolutely nothing to show for my money- strange to me.
to each his own I guess and , I understand renting when its needed, just not as a way of life.

If you are happy with plunking down $200.00 for something you now own but "literally have no idea if its the right upgrade for [you], a good deal or bad deal", then I'm persuaded that "renters" can learn to be happy with their decision to rent. At least the majority of those who post about their decision to go the LN route confirm it's a good deal for them. For my part, I'd rather rent a good-to-me deal than buy a "djab an sak". (*)

Own or rent, we should be happy to have options, which I think is the best part of L7. We (even!) have the option to forego both renting or buying past what we've already bought and just wait for the free engine in February. Nobody's forcing anyone into anything, and there's no need to denigrate other people's choices if they are different from ours.

(* 'djab en sak' is Kwéyòl (French creole) and a straight translation would be a 'devil in a bag'; I guess the equivalent to Americans would be a pig in a poke?)

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 4:15 PM

Just a point missed here. I am aware of that. However, some have said they would prefer a monthly subscription, while I myself would like to see Logos do both monthly and annual. But, it is something that is understandable. Billing is already a pain; which is why companies offer incentives to pay annually. And for me, should I choose to go Now, I'd go annually. Just because monthly is a pain for me, as well. But, since we have til Dec., I may just go ahead and see if I like it enough to go Now. If not, I can cancel, and not worry. Unless that is no longer an option. Then I may just wait and see if I feel like it's worth it.

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 4:26 PM

A sensible response! Very sensible. 

Yasmin Stephen:

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

I'm still surprised by how many people are willing to be "renters" here .
Most of you likely buy your home, buy your car, buy your lawnmower, yet rent software- thats just strange to me.

I can rent the software for years and if i don't want to pay rent anymore- i have absolutely nothing to show for my money- strange to me.
to each his own I guess and , I understand renting when its needed, just not as a way of life.

If you are happy with plunking down $200.00 for something you now own but "literally have no idea if its the right upgrade for [you], a good deal or bad deal", then I'm persuaded that "renters" can learn to be happy with their decision to rent. At least the majority of those who post about their decision to go the LN route confirm it's a good deal for them. For my part, I'd rather rent a good-to-me deal than buy a "djab an sak". (*)

Own or rent, we should be happy to have options, which I think is the best part of L7. We (even!) have the option to forego both renting or buying past what we've already bought and just wait for the free engine in February. Nobody's forcing anyone into anything, and there's no need to denigrate other people's choices if they are different from ours.

(* 'djab en sak' is Kwéyòl (French creole) and a straight translation would be a 'devil in a bag'; I guess the equivalent to Americans would be a pig in a poke?)

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 4:49 PM

I note your sarcasm. It's even almost funny. But again, you are comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are fruit, but, that's about it. 

For me, it isn't (totally) cost. There are several complaints, and as you said, I apply myself, "I do not pretend to have an inside knowledge". Yes, I think it's ridiculous to upgrade every two years (on average, since 2009). No, nobody is "forced" to upgrade. A nice thing Logos does do is offer the "shell" or the engine for free, so we can continue to access our library, from 300 years ago. It's also great that Logos is ready with compatibility issues for the most part worked out every time Windows gets updated. For that part of things, Logos is well worth money spent. But, the dark side is the constant upgrading. While we don't "have to", it never feels like it, with the super-hyper-aggressive marketing and advertising. And, eventually, when you do want to upgrade, i think it becomes mandatory to upgrade the missed paid upgrades, but, without the resources. At least that's how it worked when I upgraded. That gives the company the appearance of milking it's customers, and of greed. THAT is what I would like to see changed. Having Bob come out every so often and while he will NEVER get EVERYONE on board, by doing so, he makes sense and he attempts to appease those of us who get easily bothered and even angered by the marketing, advertising, and constant upgrading. But, no, I will never be happy when I do finally make the decision to upgrade and then BAM get hit with another update. And with Logos, if you put it off a year, then in less than a year, BAM hits you again. Even having no intentions of upgrading is annoying. Its like a huge slap in my face. 
So, for me, the subscription option will be a "forced" payment (unless I remember to cancel) but, I'm always current (IF I understand things correctly) and it costs me less. Or, as Bob says, he gets paid slowly rather than upfront. And, yes, i think it's sustainable. Although not quite the same, Amazon Prime and Office offer similar pricing. On a monthly scale Hulu, and Netflix are about the same for their subscription services. And, at $100 to $120 annually, I don't consider Logos as being "greedy". (Whether they are or are not, to ME, no. Some will ALWAYS complain, even if it's free. So again, while I may very well be Bob's biggest critic, at the same time, I don't envy him, and while being critical, I try hard not to cross the line of judging him, for I cannot possibly know his real motivations. Only appearances). 


Shannon Martin:

Some of the comments here really seam to be from some alternate universe.

Someone compared the price of Logos to Evernote. Evernote is a simple note taking app. The two are not even remotely comparable when it comes to development cost. Also, apps like Evernote, Pandora etc. appeal to huge segments of people. Logos will always have a relatively small user base.

Again people, this is easy. If you don't see the value in an upgrade by all means don't buy it!

It does not make Logos a bad company because they gave us more options.

regarding the cost of Logos Now. I don't think it is sustainable. If I look at other complex software that is on the market such as CRM software, I think Logos now will eventually need to be priced at 30-50 per month. This last statement is of course just my speculation. I don't pretend to have inside knowledge.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go buy a new washing machine. I bought one last year but the terrible company went and stabbed me in the back by selling a new model. What can I do? I am a victim. (sarcasm)

Posts 3024
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 4:59 PM

Batman:
While we don't "have to", it never feels like it, with the super-hyper-aggressive marketing and advertising.

If you don't get on (or do get off) the email lists, don't visit the website or forums, and disable the parts of your Homepage that double as ads, you could be entirely oblivious to the eventual release of the Logos 8 until the free version happens to be or be in the next automatic update a few months after it comes out.

That said, the marketing can be a bit intense if we pay attention to all of it...but we can dial it back. Effectively, even.

Page 8 of 14 (269 items) « First ... < Previous 6 7 8 9 10 Next > ... Last » | RSS