Making Logos usable for academic research

Page 3 of 4 (63 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 62 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:37 PM

Okay thank you TCBlack and SineNomine for your replies. This makes me a little timid about writing my research papers with Logos resources. Though I have not encountered this issue yet. 

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 102
Andrew Malone | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:42 PM

Keith Pang:

This makes me a little timid about writing my research papers with Logos resources.

I see Logos as an awesome tool for convenience and searching. So I can do the bulk of my research with it. But, as we've been unpacking in this thread, it's not a complete replacement for physical books – or the chance to vet quotes and pages numbers with previews like Google Books and Amazon.  ;-)

Mind you, it should be noted that (what I consider to be) core educational works are usually those that are paginated. So it's quite rare, with the resources that I use, to be unable to find page numbers. Commensurately, my institution has happily facilitated Logos for its online students.

Posts 71
Jeffrey Visser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:14 PM

TCBlack:
While I hope and believe that they will, the case may not be that easy.  First: there are thousands of resources - so time is a factor.

I would have hoped they would have done it right the first time and so it wouldn't have required rework.  I would rather wait until a product is done right that get it 1/2 done.  This doesn't seem to by a problem with any of my Kindle books.  They produce them cheaper and correct.  If they didn't have such a great tool, I would never buy Logos books.  My last textbook was 66% more at Logos that the comparable Kindle version ($50 vs $30).  But it is a book that I think I will use in ministry so I bit the bullet and bought it on Logos.  But many books that I don't think I will use for research I buy on Kindle.  For the premium price, they should be done right.  Just my 2 cents... :)

Posts 71
Jeffrey Visser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:23 PM

Keith Pang:
This makes me a little timid about writing my research papers with Logos resources.

Use Logos for your research papers.  It makes the research much easier - especially if you have a large library.  Just know that sometimes you won't get page numbers when you copy text.  Depending on the prof, you may be able to note it as a Logos version and use n.p. for no pages.  Just make sure you verify the footnote and Bibliography entry.  This takes extra work, but it is still less work than researching without Logos.  

Enjoy your writing.  I can't wait until I can write about what I want to write about, not what the prof wants me to write about.  :) 

Posts 1119
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:37 PM

Keith Pang:

Okay thank you TCBlack and SineNomine for your replies. This makes me a little timid about writing my research papers with Logos resources. Though I have not encountered this issue yet. 

For most things it's fine. I wouldn't hesitate to use its paginated resources.

In my post-grad studies, I was shocked by how many errors I found when I tried to follow-up citations in printed works. Diligence is required all around, no matter the medium of the resources you consult.

Posts 71
Jeffrey Visser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2016 7:23 PM

SineNomine:
No, and likely not just because some resources are not produced from print material that is paginated.

It is ok if they are not the same as the printed version.  As long as they are references correctly, that is ok.  At worst case, they should have an indication, like Kindle's "Kindle location", that notes the electronic location of the reference.

Posts 3137
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2016 7:44 PM

Sean:
In my post-grad studies, I was shocked by how many errors I found when I tried to follow-up citations in printed works. Diligence is required all around, no matter the medium of the resources you consult

I have lost far too many hours of research because of inaccurate citations in print.

Posts 71
Jeffrey Visser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2016 7:59 PM

SineNomine:
I have lost far too many hours of research because of inaccurate citations in print.

I agree that citations can be wrong in print as well as electronic versions of books.  The advantage with electronic is that they can be corrected. 

But it is important to distinguish between incorrect references (provided by the author/publisher) and incorrect biographical information (provided by Logos) or missing page numbers/location markers (not included by logos)  that make it impossible to reference responsibility.  If Logos wants to be the primary tool for researchers, they need to focus on their quality when creating electronic books.  New features should come as a second priority to releasing high-quality resources with their existing features.

 

Posts 1184
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2016 9:12 PM

Jeffrey Visser:

  It is very hard to cite a source by saying "about 1/3 of the way through the book."  The more things are peer reviewed, the harder it becomes.  

I completely agree.  I tried to use Logos as much as possible while working on my doctoral dissertation. A lot of the books I used in my bibliography were Vyrso books. Most of those did not have page numbers. I hunted and hunted to find page numbers, often going to the  Amazon book preview to find page numbers, which I thought was kind of ironic -  I didn't buy the books from them, but had to go to them to get page numbers.   When I reviewed my final bibliography I probably had 50 to 75 books that did not have page numbers, they only had  "n.p."   This just did not sit well with me for an academic dissertation,  but I didn't have much choice since so many of the Vyrso books deploy without page numbers ( luckily my mentor and readers did not press this issue) .  So I can definitely sympathize and empathize with the original poster. I really wish that they would take the time to deploy these resources with page numbers.  PLEASE. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 26999
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2016 9:53 PM

For the Vyrso books I suspect that pleading with the publisher rather than Logos would be more effective although I've not seen the source files to know for certain.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 494
Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2016 10:42 PM

Myke Harbuck:
I completely agree.  I tried to use Logos as much as possible while working on my doctoral dissertation. A lot of the books I used in my bibliography were Vyrso books. Most of those did not have page numbers. I hunted and hunted to find page numbers, often going to the  Amazon book preview to find page numbers, which I thought was kind of ironic -  I didn't buy the books from them, but had to go to them to get page numbers.   When I reviewed my final bibliography I probably had 50 to 75 books that did not have page numbers, they only had  "n.p."

wow! That's a lot of vyrso-types books in a dissertation. That's not to knock your dissertation, but rather, that makes me think that your list of books might be better served in Logos, as opposed to vyrso.  Then having "better" tagging and potentially page numbers would be more likely to occur (I am aware that having a book in Logos does not guarantee having page numbers. In the resource, though I do imagine it being more likely.)

i see it won't be of direct benefit to you right now, but maybe if you suggest some of the vyrso books you used to be converted to logos, it may be helpful to others in the future.

MBPro'12 / i5 / 8GB // 3.0 Scholars (Purple) / L6 & L7 Platinum, M&E Platinum, Anglican Bronze, P&C Silver / L8 Platinum, Academic Pro

Posts 1184
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 5:07 AM

Richard Villanueva:

wow! That's a lot of vyrso-types books in a dissertation. That's not to knock your dissertation, but rather, that makes me think that your list of books might be better served in Logos, as opposed to vyrso. 

 You are right, and it would generally make someone think that my dissertation was less academic, and maybe it was (it was a DMin diss.). But it was over biblical eldership, and there happened to be a good bit of books in the Vyrso format over ecclesiology, the church, church leadership, and, specifically,  eldership. 

Richard Villanueva:

...having "better" tagging and potentially page numbers would be more likely to occur (I am aware that having a book in Logos does not guarantee having page numbers. In the resource, though I do imagine it being more likely.)

you are correct! How nice that would have been!!!

Richard Villanueva:

i see it won't be of direct benefit to you right now, but maybe if you suggest some of the vyrso books you used to be converted to logos, it may be helpful to others in the future.

 Honestly, I had not thought of this. But you make a good point. I will heed your advice here. Thanks for suggestion this. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 1184
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 5:21 AM

MJ. Smith:

For the Vyrso books I suspect that pleading with the publisher rather than Logos would be more effective although I've not seen the source files to know for certain.

 I'm not sure about this one. I mean, I get what you're saying… It certainly would have a lot to do with the raw data file that comes from the publisher. However, I'm sure that the publisher disseminates the same datafile to all of the end-user retailers, and no other retailers, that I'm aware of, deploy books without page numbers other than Vyrso.  I mean, while I know Amazon is a gazillion times bigger, I don't think I have ever seen a Kindle book without a page number or Kindle location number. Nor have I seen a Nook book without such.  And I get a good bit of books in the e-book format from Baker as samples to examine for course textbooks ( I think Baker calls them on examination copy), and they all have page numbers.  So even the publisher's very own proprietary formats have page numbers. 

 Whatever the case, I think that they should be making a concerted effort toward page number inclusion. I get that they started out as a small retailer, and as a peripheral, sideline business to Logos. But from what I've seen, Vyrso has taken off and has done quite well.  And the potential to do even better is certainly there. As such, there really isn't an excuse, at least not a valid one, to continue to deploy books without page numbers, IMHO. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 26999
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 12:11 PM

Given your evidence Myke, it does sound as if Logos could do page numbers ... but it may be that a Logos position number would be easier ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1184
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 1:21 PM

MJ. Smith:

it may be that a Logos position number would be easier ...

Hey (light bulb goes off),  that's actually a really good idea. I wish you would formally suggest that to the FL team. Actually kind of like that better than page numbers. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 5148
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 2:43 PM

Whatever the solution FL need to stop hiding behind the excuse that Vysro is just a hobby - it is an international business and they do publish academic resources under this brand. They may not get full Logos tagging but leaving out page numbers is not acceptable for this sort of material.

Myke Harbuck:
 

Whatever the case, I think that they should be making a concerted effort toward page number inclusion. I get that they started out as a small retailer, and as a peripheral, sideline business to Logos. But from what I've seen, Vyrso has taken off and has done quite well.  And the potential to do even better is certainly there. As such, there really isn't an excuse, at least not a valid one, to continue to deploy books without page numbers, IMHO. 

Myke Harbuck:

MJ. Smith:

it may be that a Logos position number would be easier ...

Hey (light bulb goes off),  that's actually a really good idea. I wish you would formally suggest that to the FL team. Actually kind of like that better than page numbers. 

Posts 2133
LogosEmployee

Myke Harbuck:

MJ. Smith:

it may be that a Logos position number would be easier ...

Hey (light bulb goes off),  that's actually a really good idea. I wish you would formally suggest that to the FL team. Actually kind of like that better than page numbers. 

Try using the Copy location as Url option in the panel menu.

Posts 1184
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 3:19 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Try using the Copy location as Url option in the panel menu.

It's not the actual location that's needed. It's referencing that location that's the problem, such as in a bibliography. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 2133
LogosEmployee

Myke Harbuck:

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Try using the Copy location as Url option in the panel menu.

It's not the actual location that's needed. It's referencing that location that's the problem, such as in a bibliography. 

Many styles provide for referencing a url indicating where content was retrieved from. If you open the Factbook tool and switch to the information screen, you'll see an article citation there that makes use of the URL for that specific Factbook article (for example, APA Style (6th ed.)).

Posts 71
Jeffrey Visser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 8 2016 5:26 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
Many styles provide for referencing a url indicating where content was retrieved from. If you open the Factbook tool and switch to the information screen, you'll see an article citation there that makes use of the URL for that specific Factbook article (for example, APA Style (6th ed.)).

An example of a book without page numbers (from Vyrso) would be: Timothy J. Keller, Center Church: Doing Balanced, Gospel-Centered Ministry in Your City (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2012).

I see copy and visual copy, but not "copy as URL" in Logos 7. Am I missing something?

Page 3 of 4 (63 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS